Refresh 1994 Chimaera 500 Advise
Discussion
Need a little help, as my pride and joy for the last 10 years is getting on a bit, was planning on getting rid while it’s still reasonable and cutting in with my wife who is after a Boxter, the extra money from my Chimaera may get us into the latest new model which is a very good car.
Generally it looks great from 10ft away, but on closer inspection it’s not looking quite so hot both inside and outside, a re-spray and carpets, a few other little issues sorted and would be looking a cracker again.
Mechanically the car is perfect, but as expected for 20 years old is now looking a little sad under the bonnet which brings me to my big question.
It’s early 1994 pre-serp 500 which still runs very strong, has 75k miles and have only had minor issues with the rocker pads, the internal parts are still very bright looking like new, so believe that it is still very much alive.
As I’m going to now keep it and spend some money on the nice things, I believe it would be good to rebuild the motor with new bearings, rings, cam and followers, together with the heads being rebuilt, in order to give me another 10 years. A lot cheaper to do now than wait for a failure. Along the way I would like to update the engine management to something more modern which brings me to trigger wheels and how to mount this onto an already busy front end of the motor.
Can I simply change the front cover to Serpentine with the better oil pump and distributer drive during the refresh, or would I be better seeking a Range Rover 4.6 cross bolted complete engine and ancillaries, and refresh this, perhaps changing the heads over along the way.
I do not think that my 500 crank/pistons could be swapped over as the mains are a different size.
My head tells me to just refresh the original motor, after all it has done 75K, still going strong so why spend a lot of money updating it.
Any thoughts would be appreciated on why I should go further.
Many thanks
Generally it looks great from 10ft away, but on closer inspection it’s not looking quite so hot both inside and outside, a re-spray and carpets, a few other little issues sorted and would be looking a cracker again.
Mechanically the car is perfect, but as expected for 20 years old is now looking a little sad under the bonnet which brings me to my big question.
It’s early 1994 pre-serp 500 which still runs very strong, has 75k miles and have only had minor issues with the rocker pads, the internal parts are still very bright looking like new, so believe that it is still very much alive.
As I’m going to now keep it and spend some money on the nice things, I believe it would be good to rebuild the motor with new bearings, rings, cam and followers, together with the heads being rebuilt, in order to give me another 10 years. A lot cheaper to do now than wait for a failure. Along the way I would like to update the engine management to something more modern which brings me to trigger wheels and how to mount this onto an already busy front end of the motor.
Can I simply change the front cover to Serpentine with the better oil pump and distributer drive during the refresh, or would I be better seeking a Range Rover 4.6 cross bolted complete engine and ancillaries, and refresh this, perhaps changing the heads over along the way.
I do not think that my 500 crank/pistons could be swapped over as the mains are a different size.
My head tells me to just refresh the original motor, after all it has done 75K, still going strong so why spend a lot of money updating it.
Any thoughts would be appreciated on why I should go further.
Many thanks
If you are going to keep for another ten years then:
Rebuild engine (upstage to serp configuration will add little cost) but budget on atleast £4k for a full rebuild
Change to a modern EFI system (another £2k unless happy to megasquirt yourself)
Oh and chassis ( and suspension refurb (£4k)
Respray (3-4k)
New carpets (£500)
Clutch?
Alarm/immobiliser?
Oh look - I just spent nearly £14k of your money.
Essentially I agree with QBee - unless you are convinced the car is a keeper then chuck it in. You will never make back or get value for that the sort of cash required to really refurb a 20 year car in the short to medium term.
I've just spent £6k on mine and could easily spend that again...
Rebuild engine (upstage to serp configuration will add little cost) but budget on atleast £4k for a full rebuild
Change to a modern EFI system (another £2k unless happy to megasquirt yourself)
Oh and chassis ( and suspension refurb (£4k)
Respray (3-4k)
New carpets (£500)
Clutch?
Alarm/immobiliser?
Oh look - I just spent nearly £14k of your money.
Essentially I agree with QBee - unless you are convinced the car is a keeper then chuck it in. You will never make back or get value for that the sort of cash required to really refurb a 20 year car in the short to medium term.
I've just spent £6k on mine and could easily spend that again...
Seems a little drastic above. Does it need a rebuild or do you just fancy one? Is the chassis knackered? If it's driving well and you're not planning on taking it gt racing anytime soon then just spend a bit on it to improve it cosmetically and put right the wrongs if there are any mechanically. It doesn't always need to be £000's, depends on what you want to do ultimately.
If you want better engine management, what about this?
http://www.lloydspecialistdevelopments.co.uk/fully-programmable-engine-management-kit-pre-serpentine-roverv8
HTH
Mark
http://www.lloydspecialistdevelopments.co.uk/fully-programmable-engine-management-kit-pre-serpentine-roverv8
HTH
Mark
With reference to just putting a serp front end on a preserp engine, Im not 100% sure but I think the end of the Crankshaft where the pulley slides onto is shorter on the preserps.
I seem to recall doing it the other way round and using a serp front end into a preserp and machining the crankshaft end off. It was a long time ago though and I could be wrong but check before you commit.
I seem to recall doing it the other way round and using a serp front end into a preserp and machining the crankshaft end off. It was a long time ago though and I could be wrong but check before you commit.
Winter project.
- Remove the heads and send them for a skim and get the valves and valve seats done.
- New rockers
- Install a new camshaft kit: MC1 or V8D Stealth.
- Remove crank pulley and have it fitted with a trigger wheel and rebalanced to the right offset.
- New oil pump and timing chain set.
- Manifold gaskets whilst you're at it!
- Whilst Y piece is off, have a wide band lambda boss welded in.
- Check out the chassis: body on strip back and refurb or body off. If body off, polybush the lot.
- Remove, media blast, galvanise and mastic coat all wishbones. Then poly bush and replace, with new thrust washers.
- Carpet set and Furniture Clinic leather kit.
- Megasquirt yourself (speak to Shaun at MS2 Tuning and ExtraEFI)
- Consider a few upgrades, such as 45mm intake manifold, trumpet base, 72mm plenum and smoothbore induction kit.
- Replace all hoses, clips and seals.
- Front end respray.
Look at the completed car, pat yourself on the back and enjoy driving it, whilst considering all that you have learned and achieved.
Not a cheap set if jobs, but you would save yourself a fortune by doing it yourself if you have the inclination, time and space. There is enough experience, expertise and enthusiasm on here to get you through these jobs. Failing that, it will be a very costly exercise to get all this done by specialists. You'll need to the weigh up the economics of selling and purchasing a better example, with most of the work already done.
- Remove the heads and send them for a skim and get the valves and valve seats done.
- New rockers
- Install a new camshaft kit: MC1 or V8D Stealth.
- Remove crank pulley and have it fitted with a trigger wheel and rebalanced to the right offset.
- New oil pump and timing chain set.
- Manifold gaskets whilst you're at it!
- Whilst Y piece is off, have a wide band lambda boss welded in.
- Check out the chassis: body on strip back and refurb or body off. If body off, polybush the lot.
- Remove, media blast, galvanise and mastic coat all wishbones. Then poly bush and replace, with new thrust washers.
- Carpet set and Furniture Clinic leather kit.
- Megasquirt yourself (speak to Shaun at MS2 Tuning and ExtraEFI)
- Consider a few upgrades, such as 45mm intake manifold, trumpet base, 72mm plenum and smoothbore induction kit.
- Replace all hoses, clips and seals.
- Front end respray.
Look at the completed car, pat yourself on the back and enjoy driving it, whilst considering all that you have learned and achieved.
Not a cheap set if jobs, but you would save yourself a fortune by doing it yourself if you have the inclination, time and space. There is enough experience, expertise and enthusiasm on here to get you through these jobs. Failing that, it will be a very costly exercise to get all this done by specialists. You'll need to the weigh up the economics of selling and purchasing a better example, with most of the work already done.
Chuffmeister said:
........Lots of expensive but thoroughly well thought out ideas to fill your entire winter and empty your wallet at the same time - who said men couldn't multi-task? 
.........
"Failing that, it will be a very costly exercise to get all this done by specialists. You'll need to the weigh up the economics of selling and purchasing a better example, with most of the work already done."
Unless you want to spend your winter in the garage, that's the best idea. Plenty of such cars will appear on Classifieds and Autotrader at this time of year, either redundant at the end of the summer, or making way for this winter's project. Save your wallet, sell your car to someone with a winter project in mind, and grab an already sorted bargain. Sadly our cars sell for far less than we have spent on them, and many a Chim owner has to go scratch the Turbo or Tuscan itch..............
"Failing that, it will be a very costly exercise to get all this done by specialists. You'll need to the weigh up the economics of selling and purchasing a better example, with most of the work already done."
QBee said:
Sadly our cars sell for far less than we have spent on them, and many a Chim owner has to go scratch the Turbo or Tuscan itch.....
And at risk of hi-jacking this thread, how many have scratched the Turbo and Tuscan itch and come back to NA Chimaera? I guess most owners go thru this.
As for the cost of refurbing your car versus finding one with the work already done. I agree with QBee and others on this - find one with the work already done.
JimTC said:
QBee said:
Sadly our cars sell for far less than we have spent on them, and many a Chim owner has to go scratch the Turbo or Tuscan itch.....
And at risk of hi-jacking this thread, how many have scratched the Turbo and Tuscan itch and come back to NA Chimaera? I guess most owners go thru this.
As for the cost of refurbing your car versus finding one with the work already done. I agree with QBee and others on this - find one with the work already done.
Mark
Be careful when you say "that parts still look new" - mine 430 did look new with 74k miles....camshaft was messed up - timing chain belt messed up - timing way out - big end bearings...messed up and that contributes to a low oil pressure....! These engines are high performance stuff!
Thanks for the comments guys.
Interesting views, especially regarding the resale value and refurbishment costs, must say that some of the budget costs quoted would make a refurbishment project plain daft. This must only make future cars become rarer as the dogs rot away or become broken for spares.
Just to clarify, my car is not a project, everything is up together and works well, for me the following things are less than perfect.
Cosmetic
Stone chipped front end
Rear wings marked by previous owner putting roof section in boot - touched in by me
Small areas of rear lacquer peeling around the number plate, Mirror stone chips
Carpets fading - drivers foot well becoming quite scruffy
Crack in rear window, targa panel fabric damaged, this year when the roof departed company at high speed.
Mechanical - possible future problems
Rad - no leaks but looks a little past its sell by date
Hoses - been on the car for 20 years, just replaced the top hose due to a crack
Would like to update ECU to get ignition, sequential fuel injection to improve mpg touring manners
Am very hands on, so will prep bodywork for local re-spray specialist, fit new carpets, sound deadening material and trim where required. New rear hood and recover targa section myself.
Will leave mechanical bits to summer next year, when I could detail the engine bay and replace rad and hoses.
The mechanical bits would come under normal expenses, but would hope to get the cosmetic bits done for under £2.5K which would get back the kerb appeal. Will look at after market ECU as a separate project as and when.
Would like to add that my decision to keep is based on the fact that I cannot find anything to replace it for less than £40K, and this budget would only put me in the same place as the Chimaera one or two years down the road. Not much comes close to the TVR experience out there, and the more modern the further away from driving pleasure it becomes. As a final comment, If I did sell up and throw in with my wife's desire for a Boxter, getting into a new model, I would loose more that £14K in depreciation in the first year, which was some of the figures quoted for the Chimaera refurb, so my wife is going to have to buy a older model as a replacement for her 20v turbo coup.
Many thanks, and will let you know how things go.
P.S. Only thinking of a engine rebuild, in terms of shell replacement, timing chain and possibly cam while im there as a preventative measure. Used to rebuild my highly strung jet ski motor every season for a few hundred pounds, my mates would wait for something to happen and spend thousands.
Interesting views, especially regarding the resale value and refurbishment costs, must say that some of the budget costs quoted would make a refurbishment project plain daft. This must only make future cars become rarer as the dogs rot away or become broken for spares.
Just to clarify, my car is not a project, everything is up together and works well, for me the following things are less than perfect.
Cosmetic
Stone chipped front end
Rear wings marked by previous owner putting roof section in boot - touched in by me
Small areas of rear lacquer peeling around the number plate, Mirror stone chips
Carpets fading - drivers foot well becoming quite scruffy
Crack in rear window, targa panel fabric damaged, this year when the roof departed company at high speed.
Mechanical - possible future problems
Rad - no leaks but looks a little past its sell by date
Hoses - been on the car for 20 years, just replaced the top hose due to a crack
Would like to update ECU to get ignition, sequential fuel injection to improve mpg touring manners
Am very hands on, so will prep bodywork for local re-spray specialist, fit new carpets, sound deadening material and trim where required. New rear hood and recover targa section myself.
Will leave mechanical bits to summer next year, when I could detail the engine bay and replace rad and hoses.
The mechanical bits would come under normal expenses, but would hope to get the cosmetic bits done for under £2.5K which would get back the kerb appeal. Will look at after market ECU as a separate project as and when.
Would like to add that my decision to keep is based on the fact that I cannot find anything to replace it for less than £40K, and this budget would only put me in the same place as the Chimaera one or two years down the road. Not much comes close to the TVR experience out there, and the more modern the further away from driving pleasure it becomes. As a final comment, If I did sell up and throw in with my wife's desire for a Boxter, getting into a new model, I would loose more that £14K in depreciation in the first year, which was some of the figures quoted for the Chimaera refurb, so my wife is going to have to buy a older model as a replacement for her 20v turbo coup.
Many thanks, and will let you know how things go.
P.S. Only thinking of a engine rebuild, in terms of shell replacement, timing chain and possibly cam while im there as a preventative measure. Used to rebuild my highly strung jet ski motor every season for a few hundred pounds, my mates would wait for something to happen and spend thousands.
Edited by BeastMaster on Sunday 19th October 12:14
BeastMaster said:
...
P.S. Only thinking of a engine rebuild, in terms of shell replacement, timing chain and possibly cam while im there as a preventative measure. Used to rebuild my highly strung jet ski motor every season for a few hundred pounds, my mates would wait for something to happen and spend thousands.
I would guess at your mileage that the cam will be an absolute necessity, especially being a 500; mine was flat as a pancake by then.P.S. Only thinking of a engine rebuild, in terms of shell replacement, timing chain and possibly cam while im there as a preventative measure. Used to rebuild my highly strung jet ski motor every season for a few hundred pounds, my mates would wait for something to happen and spend thousands.
One thing these engines really benefit from is a good internal balance (because they aren't). So you might want to consider a bore honing and set of rings in that equation, and a refresh valve grind.
semaj said:
At least £4k for an engine rebuild!!! Who is this with, Mercedes F1 team???
Sounds absurd doesn't it?However, if you are someone who would like to see the engine producing at least the power it left the factory with... By the time you have had a block fully refurbished with new top-hat cylinder liners, you are already into £1300.
Crank polish, full balancing, a simple head rebuild, the time it takes to remove, assemble, refit and commission, with all the bits you should do while the engine is out; new heat shielding, new fuel hoses, engine mounts, a few other bits and bobs that look nasty or 'might go soon' and £4k starts to look like a bargain.
Start looking for some additional reliability to protect this investment, grab a few extra horses, <insert other man-math excuses for buying shiny things>, and 6-9k is soon spent.
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