LED Headlights

[Dr Mike Oxgreen]

I wonder if Dave could be persuaded to check the beam alignment both before and after the conversion, i.e. with the conventional halogens, and then with the LEDs?

This would tell us definitively whether he had a pre-existing, undiagnosed alignment problem, or whether the LEDs do require the lights to be re-aligned.

Having done a little reading on how to adjust the beam alignment on the Chimaera, I'm inclined not to bother with the LEDs if they require re-alignment, because it sounds like a bh of a job - probably involving rusted-out wing nuts.

If I go ahead with doing the SEAT, re-alignment is easy via a little plastic screw, which is easily accessible. However, I suspect space may be much more of an issue with the battery very close behind the headlight on one side and the fuel filter on the other.

[GTRene]

how are led lights/lamps like those doing, they are simpler, just change like a normal halogen, but are they as good or better as a 'standard' halogen lamp?

http://www.ebay.nl/itm/151409836407?ssPageName=STR...

[ChimpOnGas]

Pupp said:

ChimpOnGas said:

I'm going to start again taking a more professional and complete approach to the project using new reflectors and setting everything up on proper professional calibration equipment.

Which in reality means adjusting height and direction right? What else is likley to be able to be 'calibrated'?

No, a beam setter tells you a lot more than if you need to adjust and by how much.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PbtT2Hr-9v0

A modern professional beam setter is a sophisticated instrument that will conclusively reveal the truth about the beam pattern.

[SILICONEKID345HP]

How do you set them up with the front wheels removed ? and will adjusting ride heights change the alignment ?

Maybe those gas tanks in the back have made a difference ..

[ChimpOnGas]

SILICONEKID345HP said:

How do you set them up with the front wheels removed ?

Inspection covers removed, hand in, feel for the wing nuts, twiddle while watching the beam setter, an assistant helps.

SILICONEKID345HP said:

Will adjusting ride heights change the alignment ?

Most definitely

SILICONEKID345HP said:

Maybe those gas tanks in the back have made a difference ..

Quite right, but not by much, I'm actually planning a fraction more rake as it goes.

New reflectors first, drop the front a few mm second, then finally on the beam setter for the last little tweak and check the beam shape & cut-off.

Personally I think the LED lights will be fine, they are incredibly effective on dip and the white light they give out is like driving in day light.

Once I bring them down a touch the main beam should come good too, I'm confident they'll work amazingly well, their increased brightness has just revealed I need a small amount of adjustment.

I'll try and get it done soon, until then I've been out in the dark again and not one oncoming car complained.

[cptsideways]

GTRene said:

how are led lights/lamps like those doing, they are simpler, just change like a normal halogen, but are they as good or better as a 'standard' halogen lamp?

http://www.ebay.nl/itm/151409836407?ssPageName=STR...

Utter junk for a headlight lens, hence why the foglight designation

[magpies]

cptsideways said:

Utter junk for a headlight lens, hence why the foglight designation

Agree +1

[Pupp]

ChimpOnGas said:

Pupp said:

ChimpOnGas said:

I'm going to start again taking a more professional and complete approach to the project using new reflectors and setting everything up on proper professional calibration equipment.

Which in reality means adjusting height and direction right? What else is likley to be able to be 'calibrated'?

No, a beam setter tells you a lot more than if you need to adjust and by how much.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PbtT2Hr-9v0

A modern professional beam setter is a sophisticated instrument that will conclusively reveal the truth about the beam pattern.

And if you read again what I asked, you will see I was wondering what, apart from direction and height, could actually be 'set' on a Chimaera, assisted by this sophisticated instrument? We know a forward aimed emitter is not going to work properly with a reflector and lens designed for a radially emissive bulb so I was just curious what the aim of the exercise was if not just to confirm the obvious mismatch?

[GTRene]

cptsideways said:

GTRene said:

how are led lights/lamps like those doing, they are simpler, just change like a normal halogen, but are they as good or better as a 'standard' halogen lamp?

http://www.ebay.nl/itm/151409836407?ssPageName=STR...

Utter junk for a headlight lens, hence why the foglight designation

thanks, so that type of LED 'bulbs' can not compete with standard halogen 'bulbs' you need more, I'm just not such fan of extra things around the lights.

The ones OP are with a extra little fan and such square block...
would be nice to get a strong LED replacement without those extra needed things.

[magpies]

Pupp said:

And if you read again what I asked, you will see I was wondering what, apart from direction and height, could actually be 'set' on a Chimaera, assisted by this sophisticated instrument? We know a forward aimed emitter is not going to work properly with a reflector and lens designed for a radially emissive bulb so I was just curious what the aim of the exercise was if not just to confirm the obvious mismatch?

my torch photo shows forward facing led (3) each in their own small reflector
if you look at these lamps you will see that the emitter is facing 90 deg to forward (one facing up (dip) and one facing down (main fill) thus facing the lamp bowl reflector

[Pupp]

magpies said:

my torch photo shows forward facing led (3) each in their own small reflector
if you look at these lamps you will see that the emitter is facing 90 deg to forward (one facing up (dip) and one facing down (main fill) thus facing the lamp bowl reflector

OK, that makes a load more sense; hadn't twigged that

[ChimpOnGas]

Pupp said:

magpies said:

my torch photo shows forward facing led (3) each in their own small reflector
if you look at these lamps you will see that the emitter is facing 90 deg to forward (one facing up (dip) and one facing down (main fill) thus facing the lamp bowl reflector

OK, that makes a load more sense; hadn't twigged that

I really should have taken some better photos of the bulb replacement units before I fitted them to help people understand the design better.

Here you can only see one side, the emitters (or emitter) is encapsulated somewhere under the yellow dot which is actually a half globe of opaque yellow silicone, they are very different to anything I've seen before.



The other side you can't see in the above photo looks the same with a second half globe of that opaque yellow silicone, in effect the design mimics the filament positioning on a regular H4 incandescent bulb and are clearly designed to throw the light at 90 degrees into a reflector bowl in the same way a filament bulb does.

I'm not sure why the emitter or emitters are under those half globes of opaque yellow silicone, I've seen a lot of powerful LED torches and none of them have this strange blob of silicone thing?

Its impossible to see the emitter (or emitters) under the yellow silicone globes because they are opaque, so I don't really know how they are positioned or even how many emitters there are. All I know is the design is very different to anything I've seen before, they seem well made, and appear to be designed to mimic an traditional incandescent filament bulb.

And they definitely work with our reflector bowl & lens system.

The way they are behaving right now is just like headlights with regular incandescent bulbs do when the reflector bowls need adjusting down a fraction, and I strongly suspect if my old incandescent H4s were throwing out this much light they would also reveal my same need for adjustment.

Honestly guys, I genuinely feel they'll be fine with a small amount of adjustment, but as the mod has safety implications I wont feel 100% comfortable in recommend them until I've properly reviewed the beam pattern and cut off definition on a professional beam setter.

Please be patient, I will check them soon and let you all know what I find, good or bad.

Edited to add this image that shows both sides of my LED 3200 lumen bulb replacement units, perhaps the two blobs of opaque yellow silicone are doing some sort of diffusing trickery needed to make them behave like an incandescent filament bulb?



If you look closely at the above image you'll see the silicone half globes are also very slightly offset to each other.

Now have a look at a traditional incandescent filament H4 bulb.

Edited by ChimpOnGas on Monday 27th October 21:57

[Alexdaredevils]

Where are you getting the reflectors resilverd?

[ChimpOnGas]

Alexdaredevils said:

Where are you getting the reflectors resilverd?

Hi Alex, actually I cant have the car off the road for too long so I'm getting a new set, then having my existing ones re-silvered locally as spares.

There may well be a good saving if we can run a batch through the tank, once I have some figures I'll propose a group buy for Cerb & Chim owners.

The process will likely include a high temp resistant 2k clear coat treatment, I've been reassured this will not crack, peel or go yellow over time (UV stable).

The 2k lacquer coating should dramatically extend the life of the bright finish on the reflector.

Dave.

[blitzracing]

Have you considered lighting both LED elements for full beam? This would more replicate the 360' light spread you get from the filament lamp on full beam. You would need to check if the heat sink and cooling is up to it though.

[ChimpOnGas]

blitzracing said:

Have you considered lighting both LED elements for full beam? This would more replicate the 360' light spread you get from the filament lamp on full beam. You would need to check if the heat sink and cooling is up to it though.

Actually that's exactly how they work Blitz, let me show you what I mean.

Here they are on dip, the upper LED reflects onto the upper half of the reflector bowl, which turns the light throwing in forward & down through the lens which does the final job of creating the beam shape & definition.



On full beam the second LED comes on filling the bottom half of the reflector bowl while the upper LED (dip LED if you like) remains on to fill the upper half of the reflector bowl too.



The result is a fully filled reflector bowl on full beam, in effect they are working exactly the same as a traditional twin filament incandescent H4 bulb.

Its also important for me to reiterate that while my current reflectors aren't horribly corroded they are far from being in "as new" super shiny condition. Replacing them will in itself have a big impact on how well the light is reflected & controlled. It stands to reason I need to start with perfect reflectors if I'm to conduct a fair review of these LED units.

Marginal reflectors themselves could easily cause glare, dazzle and affect how sharp the beam cut off is.

And lets not get all hung up on what amounts to the need for small bit of adjustment; exactly as they are, fitted with no adjustment whatsoever and using my existing reflectors I must have passed literally hundreds & hundreds of cars now, & to date I have been flashed a grand total of twice (both times on the same very tight country lane).

Obviously two flashes are two too many, but lets get this into perspective, I'm pretty sure if you put these bulbs in any of our cars they would reveal if your adjustment is slightly out, and I'll put my neck out and say 95% would be.

The amazing light output just means proper adjustment becomes far more critical, the poor adjustment you got away with on regular incandescent halogen bulbs is now (for the first time ever) revealed and becomes a cause for attention with these super bright 3200 lumen bulb replacement units.

New reflectors & correct adjustment is just part of proper maintenance of the car, the fact my slightly corroded reflectors and weaker bulbs meant oncoming drivers never flashed me before is not a reason to condemn these amazing new LED lights.

Here's how they work with a reflector bowl if anyone is still in any doubt if they are suitable for our cars:



And here's what happens to the reflected light if the reflectors have gone a bit dull and tarnished.



As you can see, a matt surface caused by a even a small amount of corrosion will play havoc with how the light from any type of bulb is reflected (traditional incandescent, HiD or these new LEDs), light is very poorly controlled and scatter is inevitable. I can't stress strongly enough how important having reflectors in good condition is to the correct functioning of our reflector bowl & lens system.

What I'm saying is you can't really condemn the LEDs until everything is in A1 condition (especially the reflector bowls), and I challenge all of you to check your reflector bowls before you try and improve your headlights, however you choose to do it.

I bet nearly every one of you with find flat grey reflectors behind their glass lenses, rather than a bright shiny finish needed for correct reflector operation.

It doesn't make any difference if you try LED, HiD or even the better incandescent bulbs like the Philips X-tremes, you need to start with perfect reflectors before you can pass judgment on the upgrade, you also need to adjust your headlights properly after fitting.

These LED lights will work perfectly, they just need new reflectors and correct adjustment on a professional beam setter to be perfect.

As they stand they are still a massive steep up, it's just extremely important to me to be responsible & respectful to other road users and to make sure I'm giving you the facts on these LED lights as I continue to test them.

I hope that's clear

[Sardonicus]

Trouble is Dave how many late cars have you had coming towards you have you swore were on main beam but turned out to be a late euro box with modern lighting? I know I have what I am saying is that those cars that flashed you may be nothing more than over fussy drivers don't even get me started on the amount of drivers I get behind at night when its obvious they have poor eye sight or need them peepers re/tested they do look bright though good experiment IMO I have one of these at the shop with your style bulb and Phazed will tell its like daylight under a car

Edited by Sardonicus on Tuesday 28th October 09:44

[ChimpOnGas]

Sardonicus said:

Trouble is Dave how many late cars have you had coming towards you have you swore were on main beam but turned out to be a late euro box with modern lighting? I know I have what I am saying is that those cars that flashed you may be nothing more than over fussy drivers don't even get me started on the amount of drivers I get behind at night when its obvious they have poor eye sight or need them peepers re/tested they do look bright though good experiment IMO

You make some good points there Simon, and I tend agree. But playing Devil's Advocate it could be argued I've dazzled more than two drivers but only two took it upon themselves to complain.

What I have noticed since I started the experiment is just how many other cars have badly adjusted headlights, I guess I'm just paying a bit more attention now but the other alarming thing I'm seeing with surprising regularity is the "Cyclops".

By "Cyclops" I mean the one headlight cars that seem to be very common, the drivers of these one eyed cars seem blissfully unaware of how dangerous it is to be bombing about on country lanes masquerading as a skinny motorcycle.

Sardonicus said:

I have one of these at the shop with your style bulb and Phazed will tell its like daylight under a car

I definitely want one of those LED workshop work lights you got there, it looks the business

[WokingWedger]

I am very interested in this thread and on the brink of buying.

Just a couple of niggling thoughts though.

Life of the fans ( rotating parts and bearings etc) This may not be to bad as they may not be used more than a handful of hours per week.

Is there sufficient space around the fans for them to circulate air sufficiently. If not, the fans will create heat instead of dissipating.

Does the specified current draw include the fans, as this may well be more then the LEDs ?

The advert says not waterproof, but I guess they are well protected where they are located.

As an aside, I wonder how long it will be before legislation is introduced to limit light out put rather than the present 55W power input limit.

Really good thread. Well done !

[magpies]

+1 the amount of cars with lighting defects or badly adjusted lights

why is it that most cars which have a headlight out also have the 'parking' light out too

also most people (pub discussion) do not realise that headlights need to be mechanically adjusted so both are in line and that the electric height adjustment is only for changes in loading of the car. That is why in a significant amount of cases it is only one light is blinding.