LED Headlights

[ChimpOnGas]

Bassfiend229hp said:

Because as long as it's bright and shiny and appealing to the unwashed masses and you can make some money out of it then that's all that matters on the whole.

Cover your arse by saying that they're for off road use only then you don't have to worry.

You sell products and some bloke has LED headlights 'like a BMW has' for £50 and never even thinks about why they're not legal or why they cost him £50 when BMW (etc.) probably spent several million developing the technology and getting it approved and probably even thinks that people are flashing him in appreciation of his bangin' lookin' ride...

Phil

A bit harsh that Phil, as cost effective drop in replacements (and assuming you adjust them properly) I'd say they're great way for those with standard ineffectual TVR headlights to improve night driving visibility.

After spending a simple 30 minutes fitting these LED H4s you immediately get amazing main beam performance, and lets face it you aint going to dazzle anyone on main beam because if you're still on main beam with a car coming the other way you shouldn't be allowed on the road full stop

Of course that just leaves dip beam, now its true these drop in LED H4s don't give a perfect beam pattern in a reflector bowl headlight designed for an incandescent bulb, but all you do is adjust them down which you need to do anyway to get the adjustment right for main beam. Once you've done this you never get flashed and the dip beam performance is actually still way better than the very poor standard setup in my opinion.

On balance... given the cost, ease of fitment and the improvements people will immediately enjoy after fitting them I'd say these LED H4s are a great addition to any TVR, even those with corroded reflectors will see more of the road than those with perfect reflectors using the very best incandescent bulb, well that was my experience and I hope people agree it's real world testing & experience that counts?

And lets not forget those expensive Truck-lites aren't even an option for 90% of Chimaera owners anyway because they simply won't fit, even those with Mk3 headlights with their more common 7" round Mk1 Golf headlights will need to modify their car somewhat to make the Truck-lites fit.

I've been very careful to explain these LED H4 aren't absolutely perfect in every single respect, but what is perfect in every single respect in the world of TVR? What they are is a highly convenient and cost effective upgrade that anyone can fit in just an hour, it's also a totally reversible mod requiring no other new parts or bodywork, fitting and removing them if you don't like the things is literally as simple as changing a bulb.

I'd encourage anyone to try a set of these LED H4s for themselves and to follow carefully my adjustment advice, this information is freely given to everyone based on thousands of miles of real world testing on a real Chimaera, so hopefully people can see I've done the testing and been as honest as I can.

Personally if anyone suffering from poor headlights on their Chimaera asked me straight... "should I try a set of LED H4s?, I wouldn't hesitate to say.... "yes, just make sure you adjust the dip beams nice and low out of respect of other road users".

I hope that's clear to all?

Dave.

[ChimpOnGas]

GC8 said:

Example link?

Honestly, do I have to do everything for you boys

http://www.aliexpress.com/item/2016-New-ZY-P6-110W...

These new LED H4s are a frightening 5200 lumens per unit.... so that's 10,400 lumens a pair on main beam

Actually I feel mine are well bright enough as is, but it's the focal length adjustment on these new versions that's of most interest.

At £66 a set who will be the first to try them?

[GC8]

Thanks Dave.

[Bassfiend229hp]

ChimpOnGas said:

A bit harsh that Phil, as cost effective drop in replacements (and assuming you adjust them properly) I'd say they're great way for those with standard ineffectual TVR headlights to improve night driving visibility.

I don't think it's at all harsh ... sure they might make the rather poor standard lights on the car better ... usable ... maybe even good ... but at the same time what proportion of the "normal" people who buy these lights off eBay do you reckon will even think to have them checked and / or adjusted?

There's always a proportion of people that will try to be semi-responsible and it's obviously reassuring that you have been so (as I would hope would most people on here) but I would happily risk a £50 bet that less than 1% of the people that buy them ever consider doing so?

No - this isn't me being holier than thou or whatever - I often drive without a seatbelt or front numberplate and I was going to use the H4 LEDs myself but I just can't be arsed to change the bulbs out and back again for the MOT - I want them to be able to pass a legit MOT (like a set of 100/80's probably would simply because no-one in an MOT would ever actually take the bulbs out to check) even if they're in themselves 'illegal' ... same as I can't be arsed to change out a de-catted Y-piece - if mine will get through a legit MOT without a cat then great but if it won't then I'll put a catted Y-piece back on it.

If the H4 replacements had given a good beam pattern from the off then I'd have gone with them - simple - but when you have to start messing around trading off main beam performance for dipped beam performance and then filling in holes in that with upside down driving lamps then I just cannot be arsed with that level of tweakery. (...and I work in an industry that's built around tweakery! )

I'm sure that at some point - probably not very far away - the H4 LEDs will be good enough that they can be regarded as direct replacements without having to mess about - maybe I should wait for that day to come but then again you'll always be waiting if you do that because there'll always be something better round the corner.

I still haven't decided yet what I'm going to do for my 'Mk3' lights - I may still drop in the Truck-Lites, I may even go with the Golf sealed beams and just throw in some nightbreakers or some 100/80s ... whatever I go with I want them to get through an MOT without having to worry about them, after all, isn't that the aim of ol' Gasbag? To end up with a practical, usable vehicle?

Phil

[ChimpOnGas]

Bassfiend229hp said:

isn't that the aim of ol' Gasbag? To end up with a practical, usable vehicle?Phil

Exactly Phil, and an extremely practical classic car it is already.

But I'm always looking to enhance 'Ol Gasbag's' usability still further, that's why I started all this LED thing in the first place, and why I did all the testing.

To be 100% clear the LED H4s were (and still are) an excellent contribution to 'Ol Gasbag's' night time usability right from the start, and with just a small amount of adjustment they proved themselves to be completely safe as I have not been flashed once during literally thousands of test miles.

The LED H4s are just like my LPG conversion, as soon as I got the setup working exactly as I wanted it to and started enjoying the benefits, I found myself looking for the next development to make the idea even better.

The truth is I'm very happy with the LED H4s just as they are, and they sailed through the last MoT with not so much as a peep from my tester, saying that the car has completed four MoT tests with no cats whatsoever.... and no issues there either

I can easily see how my policy of further developing what has already proved itself to be a good improvement can be misinterpreted, the message isn't... "this didn't work well, so I'm trying to sort it", the real message here is "this was a great improvement, lets see if I can make it even better".

In the case of these LED H4s my guess is most will be happy just sticking a set in their headlights, making a small adjustment... and get on with enjoying the improvement in light. I simply want to take them one step further using the well reviewed PIAA LP270 LED driving lights to see if I can make night driving in 'Ol Gasbag' better still.

I see no reason why the LP270's won't work really well while still ensuring my headlight setup remains respectful to other road users, the hope is this will take the already excellent improvement delivered by the LED H4s to a whole new level.

Very soon I'll let everyone know if the idea has been the success I hope for

Edited by ChimpOnGas on Tuesday 9th February 14:38

[Dodsy]

Been following this thread for a while , my eyesight must be different to everyone else as I found my original Chim headlights were very good. I had fitted some Osram brighter bulbs but even without I had nothing to complain about, even with the bowls being quite corroded.

Unfortunately that bowl corrosion was heading for an MOT failure so I 'upgraded' to the MK3 faired in lights. Now those truly are crap nowhere near as good as the standard lights, a modification that I deeply regret. Wish I had kept them standard but cant go back now. So thats why I have been following this thread, I might just try LEDs, they cant make it any worse thats for sure.

[ChimpOnGas]

Dodsy said:

Been following this thread for a while , my eyesight must be different to everyone else as I found my original Chim headlights were very good. I had fitted some Osram brighter bulbs but even without I had nothing to complain about, even with the bowls being quite corroded.

Unfortunately that bowl corrosion was heading for an MOT failure so I 'upgraded' to the MK3 faired in lights. Now those truly are crap nowhere near as good as the standard lights, a modification that I deeply regret. Wish I had kept them standard but cant go back now. So thats why I have been following this thread, I might just try LEDs, they cant make it any worse thats for sure.

Years ago I had an old VW Derby (Polo with a boot) with these same Mk1 Golf lights, they were bad in 1987 when the car was gifted to me by my Mum. I believe the only reason TVR selected them was because of their integrated outer adjuster ring which made fitting the things a far simpler proposition.

I must admit I've only ever run my Mk3 headlights (Golf Mk1 units) on these LED H4's, and no complaints from me, just popping a set of LED H4s in puts them in a different league to my old Derby/Mk1 Golf lights.

And they're about to get even better with the addition of a set of PIAA LP270 driving lights.

But if you really wanted to take your Mk3 lights one step further and make a proper job of it I'd be tempted to replace the Golf units with a set of 7" LED Truck-lites. This will require some slight modification to your Mk3 pods to mount them, but it shouldn't present a massive challenge as the Golf units you currently have are a 7" round headlight, just with an integrated adjuster ring.

The following images are actually a Land Rover Defender that has had it's standard 7" round headlights using standard H4 incandescent bulbs replaced with a set of 7" Tuck-lites. Golf Mk1 lights are no different to the ancient 7" round Lucas units this Defender owner started out with, so you can expect exactly the same levels of improvement from fitting Truck-lites to your Chimaera.










Phil (Bassfiend229hp) found a seller in German Land selling what look like genuine RHD Truck-lites for £290.00 a set...

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/222000427749

This is an amazing price if they genuinely are the real deal, but remember you will need to budget for the fitting of the things if you're not comfortable doing it yourself.

I'd say you need to budget for a further £350 to buy the Truck-lites then have them fitted and adjusted, all this on top of whatever you paid for your Mk3 headlight conversion. For me the whole thing ends up stupidly expensive just to get proper headlights on a Chimaera which is why I'm sticking with my Golf units with the £50-£60 LED H4s in them.

Whatever solution you choose don't be too down on your Mk3 headlight conversion, you've improved the looks of your car and resolved the dreadfully corrosion prone, expensive and hard to source reflector problem that plagues all Mk1/2 Chimaera owners.

With just a little more effort you can also make your Mk3 lights work amazingly well too

Edited by ChimpOnGas on Tuesday 9th February 14:44

[Bassfiend229hp]

ChimpOnGas said:

<<SNIP>>

I'd say you need to budget for a further £350 to buy the Truck-lites then have them fitted and adjusted, all this on top of whatever you paid for your Mk3 headlight conversion. For me the whole thing ends up stupidly expensive just to get proper headlights on a Chimaera which is why I'm sticking with my Golf units with the £50-£60 LED H4s in them.

<<SNIP>>>

...by adding a £250 set of spotlights. :0

http://www.demon-tweeks.co.uk/motorsport/front-aux...

I hadn't realised they were so expensive!

[portzi]

Bassfiend229hp said:

ChimpOnGas said:

<<SNIP>>

I'd say you need to budget for a further £350 to buy the Truck-lites then have them fitted and adjusted, all this on top of whatever you paid for your Mk3 headlight conversion. For me the whole thing ends up stupidly expensive just to get proper headlights on a Chimaera which is why I'm sticking with my Golf units with the £50-£60 LED H4s in them.

<<SNIP>>>

...by adding a £250 set of spotlights. :0

http://www.demon-tweeks.co.uk/motorsport/front-aux...

I hadn't realised they were so expensive!

So £300 for the lights off flea bay
£750 for mark 3 lights plus installation

So best part of a grand for a nice looking front end and lights that work , bargain.

[Bassfiend229hp]

portzi said:

Bassfiend229hp said:

ChimpOnGas said:

<<SNIP>>

I'd say you need to budget for a further £350 to buy the Truck-lites then have them fitted and adjusted, all this on top of whatever you paid for your Mk3 headlight conversion. For me the whole thing ends up stupidly expensive just to get proper headlights on a Chimaera which is why I'm sticking with my Golf units with the £50-£60 LED H4s in them.

<<SNIP>>>

...by adding a £250 set of spotlights. :0

http://www.demon-tweeks.co.uk/motorsport/front-aux...

I hadn't realised they were so expensive!

So £300 for the lights off flea bay
£750 for mark 3 lights plus installation

So best part of a grand for a nice looking front end and lights that work , bargain.

Absolutely - but how much have we sunk into these Blackpool Buckets over the years?

Two thousand on an ECU swap, £750 on a headlights conversion, £500 on a new roof, £1,000 on a retrim, £750 for a 324mm Brembo brake setup (when you add in wheels, wheel refurb and tyres), £500 on replacing the rad fans and cooling setup ... it all gets soooo easy to drop silly money!

Ultimately if we assume the same basic cost for a Mk3 headlight conversion then there's very little difference (in cost) between Dave's £50 LEDs and £250 Spotlights and the £290 that I dropped on the TruckLites - Dave has the flexibility to go get more LED H4 replacements and get closer and closer to a proper beam pattern if he wants to whereas I can just fit 'em and ignore 'em for the remainder of the life of the vehicle (and I guess as they're E marked for UK use then that might count for some level of compliance with legislation)...

I have so many "bits" in storage to go on mine that I sometimes wonder if I'd be better off just bolting them together and building a new one rather than bolting them to the current car one at a time...

Phil

Edited by Bassfiend229hp on Tuesday 9th February 18:43

[ChimpOnGas]

Bassfiend229hp said:

ChimpOnGas said:

<<SNIP>>

I'd say you need to budget for a further £350 to buy the Truck-lites then have them fitted and adjusted, all this on top of whatever you paid for your Mk3 headlight conversion. For me the whole thing ends up stupidly expensive just to get proper headlights on a Chimaera which is why I'm sticking with my Golf units with the £50-£60 LED H4s in them.

<<SNIP>>>

...by adding a £250 set of spotlights. :0

http://www.demon-tweeks.co.uk/motorsport/front-aux...

I hadn't realised they were so expensive!

You seem to have taken a rather strange tone with me of late Phil, have I upset you in some way or is ya back giving you jip again mate

Obvioussly this post, the LED H4s and the Truck-lite idea all originate from yours truly, time and time again I've said my Truck-lite idea will likely win out in the end because they're clearly a professionally designed LED unit.

I was really pleased when you found them so cheap, however I was already committed to the LP270s so that was a done deal. Any road up slapping a set of LP270s on 'Ol Gasbag' is likely to be be at least £100 if not £150 cheaper than buying a set of Truck-lites and paying someone to adapt my Mk3 pods to take them.

The way I see it is if I do eventually end up fitting the expensive Truck-lites in the future I'll still have my nice LP270 driving lights to help them, and by then the Truck-lites will likely be even cheaper still as the price seems to be falling by the month on these light units.

But for now I wouldn't mind betting these small but quality LED driving lights with their professionally designed rear facing reflector technology will do just what I need them to for the 250 squids.

Here's how they've ended up, not quite right in the corners as I'd hoped for but they are a buxxer to fit like that. I still think mounted like this their small dimensions ensure an unobtrusive look that doesn't spoil the lines of the car.

I'll be giving them a full test very soon.







Best regards, Dave

[Bassfiend229hp]

ChimpOnGas said:

Bassfiend229hp said:

ChimpOnGas said:

<<SNIP>>

I'd say you need to budget for a further £350 to buy the Truck-lites then have them fitted and adjusted, all this on top of whatever you paid for your Mk3 headlight conversion. For me the whole thing ends up stupidly expensive just to get proper headlights on a Chimaera which is why I'm sticking with my Golf units with the £50-£60 LED H4s in them.

<<SNIP>>>

...by adding a £250 set of spotlights. :0

http://www.demon-tweeks.co.uk/motorsport/front-aux...

I hadn't realised they were so expensive!

You seem to have taken a rather strange tone with me of late Phil, have I upset you in some way or is ya back giving you jip again mate

Not as far as I'm aware Dave ... if you've thought that then I'm sorry.

I was honestly surprised at how much those PIAA driving lights were. As you'd said that you were using them to fill in the dipped beam I was expecting them to be maybe a ton or so at a push.

As far as I'm aware I've only tried to clarify a couple of points that I've thought that maybe I've not been clear on or maybe you've misinterpreted, specifically...

ChimpOnGas said:

I'm pleased to hear the cut-off on dip performed as expected but a little surprised the main beam wasn't as good as a set of the £50 LED bulb replacement units just dropped in a standard reflector bowl headlight.

...all I said is they didn't have the "searchlight" effect that we both found when simply exchanging the LED H4's into standard reflectors where the main beams illuminated the undersides of the overhanging trees rather than the road when the dipped beam was adjusted to be (approximately) correct - searchlights being used to illuminate the sky for the purposes of locating planes and not generally being used for (nor being suitable for) night driving.

I specifically didn't comment on light throw up the road from the drive on Sunday because, as I said, the weather was truly terrible on Sunday night with quite torrential rain and not at all suitable for evaluating how they performed over a distance as we hadn't had any use of either the original 50/55 bulbs (or the 100/90's that he has been using for the last week) in such crappy weather to compare them against.

I'm still waiting to see at first hand how they work in the dry rather than when you're peering through a bathfull of water being tipped over the windscreen.

ChimpOnGas said:

Obvioussly this post, the LED H4s and the Truck-lite idea all originate from yours truly, time and time again I've said my Truck-lite idea will likely win out in the end because they're clearly a professionally designed LED unit.

My apologies once more - didn't intend to step in on your ideas in your thread, I was just trying to hopefully positively contribute towards it in exploring the alternative solutions by taking a punt on one of the so far untried options...

ChimpOnGas said:

I was really pleased when you found them so cheap, however I was already committed to the LP270s so that was a done deal. Any road up slapping a set of LP270s on 'Ol Gasbag' is likely to be be at least £100 if not £150 cheaper than buying a set of Truck-lites and paying someone to adapt my Mk3 pods to take them.

I was pleased too - because it was £300 on something that was untried rather than £400 ... £50 isn't money that you would want to see flutter out of the car window on the motorway and simply disappear into the wild blue yonder however on a set of bulbs it's something that you can justify discarding if you don't think they work for you (mine got given away to someone at work) but what was looking at being a fifth of a months income is a much more scary prospect when it could so easily end up being wasted but situation sort of forced the hand from my side and it had to be done.

ChimpOnGas said:

The way I see it is if I do eventually end up fitting the expensive Truck-lites in the future I'll still have my nice LP270 driving lights to help them, and by then the Truck-lites will likely be even cheaper still as the price seems to be falling by the month on these light units.

But for now I wouldn't mind betting these small but quality LED driving lights with their professionally designed rear facing reflector technology will do just what I need them to for the 250 squids.

Here's how they've ended up, not quite right in the corners as I'd hoped for but they are a buxxer to fit like that. I still think mounted like this their small dimensions ensure an unobtrusive look that doesn't spoil the lines of the car.

I'll be giving them a full test very soon.

Cool - looking forward to seeing it...

Phil

[FiF]

Good thread here chap. Much enjoyed it, also the fitting of those spots in the corners of the grille look very neat.

For a time I've privately questioned the logic of using them to bolster the dipped beam, thinking isn't he going to get folks thinking, "knob got his foglights on." But realise that as they're so low to the ground probably not possible to use them as main beam auxiliaries, so guess it's the only way.

I've been trying to think of a way to mount those LP270 or similar in place of the fog lights on my FL2. Just need something with a bit of throw to pick up animals in the verges on long dark straights in the forest especially on wet nights. Modern vehicles really don't lend themselves to auxiliary mounts. Apologies for mentioning a JLR tractor on a Chim forum.

[ChimpOnGas]

FiF said:

Good thread here chap. Much enjoyed it, also the fitting of those spots in the corners of the grille look very neat.

For a time I've privately questioned the logic of using them to bolster the dipped beam, thinking isn't he going to get folks thinking, "knob got his foglights on." But realise that as they're so low to the ground probably not possible to use them as main beam auxiliaries, so guess it's the only way.

I've been trying to think of a way to mount those LP270 or similar in place of the fog lights on my FL2. Just need something with a bit of throw to pick up animals in the verges on long dark straights in the forest especially on wet nights. Modern vehicles really don't lend themselves to auxiliary mounts. Apologies for mentioning a JLR tractor on a Chim forum.

Cheers, thanks for your input.

It's worth pointing out this photo was taken close to the front of the car and low to the ground, so represents a rather unnatural view point.



The installation is meant to be unobtrusive, stealth if you'll excuse the term, and from a more natural line of sight when viewed by passers by I doubt they'll stick out or draw the eye, indeed my hope is they will be completely overlooked by casual observers.

Low yes, but also still untested, so only time will tell if the deliver the results I'm looking for and at the end of the day these LP270 helper lights will prove themselves to be completely unnecessary in 90% of driving situations. In fact they'll probably be used for less time than I've spent typing on this endless post

Why?... because if we're honest with ourselves, in this built up country of ours most of the time we're actually driving under sodium street lights. My LP270s are just there for those rare occasions where I find myself on dark country roads needing some additional help on dip.

(Or in Phil's case, potentially useful when he's out dogging again )

I still think people with the Chimaera Mk3 headlight conversion which takes a common 7" round headlight unit should consider the Truck-lite option, but Cerbera owners and those with standard Mk1/2 headlights in their Chimaera (who clearly can't fit Truck-lites) should at least try these LED H4s... and perhaps assisted by a set of driving lights as I've done.

Dave.

Edited by ChimpOnGas on Wednesday 10th February 00:14

[ChimpOnGas]

Ok chaps, a little down and dirty test of my new LP270 LED driving lights which I've fitted to solve the slightly low dip beams of my LED H4 bulb replacement units which themselves are a massive step up on the best incandescent H4 bulbs on the market.

Before I show you the result I should point out I was using the rather basic camera in my phone and the Nissan Micra facing me was roughly 20 feet away so like I say a rather down & dirty test recorded with a pretty poor camera.


Here's what no lights looks like from the driver's seat to act as a control:




Now what the LED headlights do on dip but without the driving lights on:




Now on dip but with the addition of the PIAA LP270 LED driving lights:




Finally on main beams which in the case of H4s is dip & main beam together, plus the addition of the LP270's:

[url]|http://thumbsnap.com
/nb4TiMWu[/url]


What I haven't shown you is just the PIAA LP270 driving lights with nothing else on at all. I have however tested the car in this mode and was amazed to find the tiny little LP270's are actually significantly more powerful than my Mk3 Headlights using the LED H4 bulb replacement units which are already a fantastic upgrade.

The PIAA LP270 driving lights are small but they are also insanely powerful, the also seem to have the best beam cut off I've seen from any lights, and because they're mounted so low and have been adjusted with respect to oncoming traffic they really shouldn't cause any issues to oncoming traffic.

I'd say that's Chimaera poor headlights solved, indeed I'd go as far as to say my Chimaera now has headlights that are as good if not better than the best lights used on modern high end cars.

And I should stress my poor quality photos don't even come close to the true effects of my full LED setup when you see it in the real world.

Job done!

Edited by ChimpOnGas on Saturday 27th February 20:55

[magpies]

Hi CoG

This has been one of the best threads - and well worth reading it all - on PH

probably the only thing to do next (last) is a movie showing both urban and rural.

The use of the low tech camera is good, as it is so easy with 'proper' cameras to alter the aperture to enhance the image.

I have a TVR S series with standard 7" H4 and will soon transfer to LED (I have changed all the auxiliary lamps to LED already)

[ChimpOnGas]

magpies said:

Hi CoG

This has been one of the best threads - and well worth reading it all - on PH

probably the only thing to do next (last) is a movie showing both urban and rural.

The use of the low tech camera is good, as it is so easy with 'proper' cameras to alter the aperture to enhance the image.

I have a TVR S series with standard 7" H4 and will soon transfer to LED (I have changed all the auxiliary lamps to LED already)

Many thanks for you kind comments and your suggestion of a movie is excellent.

My friend has a GoPro so I'll see if he'll loan it to me so I can take you all for a ride in 'Ol Gasbag' at night.

You can then witness for yourselves just what this latest LED technology can do.

Best regards, Dave.

[FiF]

I'd certainly be interested in photos/ video of just the LP270 alone, being cheeky aligned as main beam units as well as your supplementary dip setup. They are on my radar to improve the main beam on my FL2, dip is fine, but need something with some decent throw for those long dark forest straights. Typical of modern vehicles the front end doesn't lend itself to fitting a set of classic pencil spots in a decent diameter. Don't really want to have to take the entire front bumper, grille and front panel off, which is what has to be done for anything of any size.

[ChimpOnGas]

Very small and very powerful at night, I think you'll find these LP270 LED driving lights deliver just what you need.








And here's the steering column switch which allows completely independent control of the driving lights, strictly speaking illegal but hey... as long as I'm not blinding oncoming drivers I don't think it's the crime of the century.

[SILICONEKID345HP]

Ao without the driving lights the leds fitted in the head light are useless