oil filter

oil filter

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Discussion

Goaty Bill 2

3,393 posts

118 months

Friday 21st November 2014
quotequote all
Pupp said:
Is there actually any independent verification of the maker's claims?
Yup
My car hasn't exploded since I put mine on.
It gets the Goat seal of approval.

ChimpOnGas

9,637 posts

178 months

Friday 21st November 2014
quotequote all
The effective filtration performance of both resin impregnated cellulose (paper) and the modern fiberglass synthetic medias are well understood and documented by the Society of American Engineers.

We all know paper works because we've been using paper in disposable canister type oil filters since the 1960's, but that doesn't mean its the best choice wink

Things have moved on, what you'll find is progress is quite common in the world of engineering & technology hehe

A bow & arrow was quite an effective hunting tool for thousands of years, but a modern high velocity riffle is infinitely more effective yes

Even the best resin impregnated cellulose can only trap particles down to 40 microns, this is an irrefutable well understood & documented scientific fact.

Cellulose is also a natural fiber material, it is therefore subject to substantial and unavoidable inconsistencies in fiber spacing, it also has a short shelf life of about a year before its performance starts to degrade dramatically.

When did you last check how long that new paper element oil filter you just bought has been sitting on the motor factor's shelf? I sell paper and I can tell you it doesn't last forever, far from it, in conditions of high humidity cellulose fibers will start separate almost immediately which is why large reprographics departments are always temperature & humidity controlled environments.

Because of its synthetic man made nature a fiberglass media filter has a 5 - 10 year shelf life, so is a far better performer than paper in this respect too.

Synthetic filtration media (namely fiberglass) is made up of spun glass fibers, because these made fibers are engineered they are consistent in size, the filtration media that's then manufactured from these fibers can also offer a guaranteed & consistent performance.

A synthetic filtration media will trap particles down to 15 microns or less, synthetic fibers also allow a significantly greater surface area of filtration media for the same given filter body size when compared with paper.

In summary an oil filter using fiberglass as the filtration media will trap significantly more engine damaging debris and over a far longer service life before the material reaches saturation when compared with the same sized paper element oil filter.

The final thing I'd say is "the bigger the filter the better", have a look at any truck or marine engine and you'll find a huge canister filter, often there are two of them! Have look at the legendary Colombo designed Ferrari V12 engine and you'll see two big orange Fram filters.

There are reasons for this!

Its not just about the surface area of filtration media, its about the ability for the filter to flow oil at higher viscosity before the bypass valve opens.

And when your filter's bypass valve opens, your filter is doing nothing to protect your engine, this is one of the biggest reasons 95% of engine wear occurs at cold start when your oil is extremely thick.

If your oil filter didn't bypass at cold start it would explode, other than oil viscosity the point at which your oil filter stops bypassing is largely governed by the flow characteristics of the filtration media and equally the size of the filter itself.

A large fiberglass element oil filter will start to protect your engine sooner, and when both (paper and fiberglass element) are working to their maximum, the fiberglass filter will trap more debris at a much finer level.

In summary a large modern fiberglass media filter is better by design, which is why respected engine manufacturers like Cummins (and many others) switched to them over 10 years ago.

More waffle here....

http://www.gwrra-ohh2.org/pdf/oilfilter.pdf



griffdude

1,819 posts

247 months

Friday 21st November 2014
quotequote all
Recently discussed here-

http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...

I'm very happy with the WIX oil filter (& good value too). Part number WL7117

http://www.wixfilters.com/Lookup/filterlookup.aspx

carsy

3,018 posts

164 months

Friday 21st November 2014
quotequote all
Last year I put one of the v8 filters on that Dave mentions along with a change from mineral to synthetic. The oil stayed a lot cleaner. I initially put this down to the synthetic oil but looking now its obviously the filter doing its job. A clear indication it works.

jojackson4

3,026 posts

136 months

Friday 21st November 2014
quotequote all
Mine did not fit cry

K4TRV

1,819 posts

251 months

Friday 21st November 2014
quotequote all
ChimpOnGas said:
Snippity The effective filtration performance of both resin impregnated cellulose (paper) and the modern fiberglass synthetic medias are well understood and documented by the Society of American Engineers............... Snip
Great info,

Mercedes in USA now mandate a "Fleece" media to maintain their Warranty.

Shame we can't really find sources for Fibreglass filters for us with 6-cylinder TVR's 8-((

T

Hoofa

3,151 posts

207 months

Friday 21st November 2014
quotequote all
Think I'll be sticking with a fram small filter then

Lolo256

125 posts

69 months

Thursday 28th June 2018
quotequote all
ukdj said:
These part numbers may help....


MOTAQUIP VFL378

FRAM PH5443

ERR 3340 (LAND ROVER)

UFI 23.297.00

MANN W930/20
Hi everybody

I bought a mann 930/20 could somebody confirm me that it will fit a 1999 chimaera 500 or is there some difference between the chims 400 450 and 500?

I have the steeve heath book and they warn us about oil pump drain trouble (that needs oil priming)... is that a real danger or paranoia? Nor myself nor the mecanics i talk to understand whats specific with the chim? If i get it right it will cause a pump drain if i wait too long to replace the oil filter???? Typically i always ever wait to the oil on top of oil filter to drain totally to garanty that all the oil is changed...there i ll have to avoid this oil escape and change it quickly as possible??

I think the first seconds the flow of oil leaving will be very high, should i try to stop it from the first instant or should i wait a few sec (please tell me more about it).How long will be too long??

I also want to be sure 930/20 mann is well suited because il need to swap it quick and without paying a lot of attention to thread matching etc...

Steve_D

13,737 posts

257 months

Thursday 28th June 2018
quotequote all
Lolo256 said:
........I have the steve heath book and they warn us about oil pump drain trouble (that needs oil priming)... is that a real danger or paranoia? ...
Serp engine no problem with drain back.
Pre-serp can be an issue needing a prime but probably would need to be left hours rather than minutes. Once you have removed the filter very little oil will be left so just remove the filter and replace straight away with the new filter already filled with oil.

If you need a prime you can either remove the oil pump cover and pack the pump with Vaseline or remove the dizzy and use a tool&electric drill to run the pump up.

Steve

Lolo256

125 posts

69 months

Thursday 28th June 2018
quotequote all
Steve_D said:
Serp engine no problem with drain back.
Pre-serp can be an issue needing a prime but probably would need to be left hours rather than minutes. Once you have removed the filter very little oil will be left so just remove the filter and replace straight away with the new filter already filled with oil.

If you need a prime you can either remove the oil pump cover and pack the pump with Vaseline or remove the dizzy and use a tool&electric drill to run the pump up.

Steve
Ok i read serpentine is post 1994 si i assume i am ok? Is theree a reason why i would want to prime my pump ?did you not just say it will not be necessary on serpentine engine and that i dont take much risks?? My oil pressure is usually very low at idle how do i see if my pump need a prime (i understand if there is a low pressure... but will the engine light be for sure lighted up if that s the case ??).

Thanks again!!!

Lolo256

125 posts

69 months

Thursday 28th June 2018
quotequote all
Somebody could confirm me that mann 930/20 il well suited for a 500 engine (1999)?
Thanks

macdeb

8,492 posts

254 months

Thursday 28th June 2018
quotequote all
Really? You wanna save a few pence on probably the most important part to change? Get a grip and get the Land Rover filter.

Belle427

8,858 posts

232 months

Thursday 28th June 2018
quotequote all
Lolo256 said:
Somebody could confirm me that mann 930/20 il well suited for a 500 engine (1999)?
Thanks
Thats the fitment for my 400 serp engine.
Nothing wrong with mann filters.

Lolo256

125 posts

69 months

Thursday 28th June 2018
quotequote all
macdeb said:
Really? You wanna save a few pence on probably the most important part to change? Get a grip and get the Land Rover filter.
Not at all i saw on the ref if the site i bought it that they fit chimaera (not which one that s why i m asking....). I mean if i bought a 2£noname chinese filer but MANN seams a thrusted brand i see from the very old days! Are you thinking rover is really better at building filter than mann (i m just wondering maybe you're right! For you i need to buy a rover one for sure?

Lolo256

125 posts

69 months

Thursday 28th June 2018
quotequote all
Belle427 said:
Thats the fitment for my 400 serp engine.
Nothing wrong with mann filters.
Thanks for the info. Somebody too with a 500?

Lolo256

125 posts

69 months

Thursday 28th June 2018
quotequote all
Sorry i ll say it differentely... is the oem rover oil filter the same for all chimaera (pre-post serp and all engine version)?

N7GTX

7,823 posts

142 months

Thursday 28th June 2018
quotequote all
I have a Mann filter on my car and it fits perfectly. Mann is the company VW uses to make its filters. I had tried 2 genuine Land Rover filters and both leaked oil past the sealing ring. On the Land Rover ones the seal is round in cross section. The Mann is square. If Mann filters are available for cars that I service or repair then I always choose them first.
The part you have if it is the part number above, will fit perfectly. Do not be concerned about oil loss or oil starvation as your car is not a pre-serp. Do as suggested, fill the new filter about halfway with new oil. Remove the old filter and let the oil drain out for a couple of minutes. Clean up the oil pump face and screw on the new filter. Do not worry yourself about pre-serp or serp. wink

Lolo256

125 posts

69 months

Thursday 28th June 2018
quotequote all
N7GTX said:
I have a Mann filter on my car and it fits perfectly. Mann is the company VW uses to make its filters. I had tried 2 genuine Land Rover filters and both leaked oil past the sealing ring. On the Land Rover ones the seal is round in cross section. The Mann is square. If Mann filters are available for cars that I service or repair then I always choose them first.
The part you have if it is the part number above, will fit perfectly. Do not be concerned about oil loss or oil starvation as your car is not a pre-serp. Do as suggested, fill the new filter about halfway with new oil. Remove the old filter and let the oil drain out for a couple of minutes. Clean up the oil pump face and screw on the new filter. Do not worry yourself about pre-serp or serp. wink
Your conment was very usefull and very precise, all i need to know fit there!!!

I was pretty sure MANN was top quality i already bought a lot of them for other vehicule (if i m right bosch filter are mann rebranded...so why would they chose them other than quality).

Thank again for these advised thinkings...I'm ready to go now!



TwinKam

2,937 posts

94 months

Thursday 28th June 2018
quotequote all
Another vote here for Mann Filters (Iain, we agree on something!)
I use them professionally every day (except on Japs); they're top quality and always fit right, unlike some other brands that I could mention, but won't.
It is absurd how many people think that Ford/ Rover/ VW etc oil/ air filters etc are superior... they don't make oil filters themselves, anymore than they make spark plugs, brake pads or tyres! Some (and IME Aston owners are THE worst culprits) just like to brag about how much they've spent on the 'genuine item' in the OE box even though, if they actually paused to look and read, the filter inside is a Mann/ Mahle/ Purflux etc! biglaugh

N7GTX

7,823 posts

142 months

Thursday 28th June 2018
quotequote all
TwinKam said:
Another vote here for Mann Filters (Iain, we agree on something!)
I use them professionally every day (except on Japs); they're top quality and always fit right, unlike some other brands that I could mention, but won't.
It is absurd how many people think that Ford/ Rover/ VW etc oil/ air filters etc are superior... they don't make oil filters themselves, anymore than they make spark plugs, brake pads or tyres! Some (and IME Aston owners are THE worst culprits) just like to brag about how much they've spent on the 'genuine item' in the OE box even though, if they actually paused to look and read, the filter inside is a Mann/ Mahle/ Purflux etc! biglaugh
yes

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