Problem, help appreciated

[hot metal]

Mr Supercharged said:

where abouts are you in the UK, I'm travelling back home to gloucestershire tomorrow from lancashire. If you are on my way I will offer to look at it for you.

Hi, thanks I `m in the Nottm, Derby area, out of your way I think thanks anyway. Also I don`t think the leads have been swapped unless it happened overnight (Gremlins ??)

[hot metal]

ChimpOnGas said:

Mr Supercharged said:

I went to investigate a glowing exhaust manifold issue on my friends chimaera. We pulled out one of the spark plugs and it looked brand new, on further investigation the injector associated with that cylinder / spark plug had not been plugged in (at a well known TVR specialist) which was causing the lambda to read lean on that bank of cylinders. In an attempt to correct this the ECU will over fuel the remaining working injectors, the unburnt fuel then uses the the "free oxygen" from the cylinder not being provided with fuel to ignite and hey presto you have a very hot manifold in this primary. So, if you definitely have a good spark on that cylinder I would like to suggest that your injector is either not receiving a signal feed (not plugged in) or is faulty. Cheers.

Quality response, very interesting

Relevant too

OP should pay attention here.

Attention being paid, checking everything tomorrow, I`m putting the decat on the back-burner for now. Can`t help thinking the extensions might be an issue, they are original as far as I know. A fellow chimp owner has offered to come over tomorrow, so may look into the injector thing too if it comes to that, he`s a lot braver than me when it come to such surgery, at least I hope he is

[Mr Supercharged]

Are both manifolds glowing or just one? If both are glowing and it is an injector fault that would indicate possibly that the driver in the ECU has failed since they are fired in pairs. Another trick is to use a stethoscope, cut the microphone / pancake off the end so you are just left with a tube and position it next to each injector and listen to confirm that it makes a clicking noise. This at least would confirm that the injectors are being cycled.

[hot metal]

Mr Supercharged said:

Are both manifolds glowing or just one? If both are glowing and it is an injector fault that would indicate possibly that the driver in the ECU has failed since they are fired in pairs. Another trick is to use a stethoscope, cut the microphone / pancake off the end so you are just left with a tube and position it next to each injector and listen to confirm that it makes a clicking noise. This at least would confirm that the injectors are being cycled.

Just the left hand manifold, also the ecu has been checked out & given a clean bill of health.

[hot metal]

Well I put everything back together as it should be & started again. I tried firing `er up, started, ran badly & then stopped ,so no change. Spark to all the plugs though left bank seem weaker than the right. Tried a different coil, no better, not starting at all. Then I noticed the pump was no longer priming when I turned on the ignition, it had earlier in the day though. Checked for fuel at the line, no fuel (yes it has got some in )

Could it be the immobilizer ???

[blitzracing]

The ECU needs a pulse from the coil to run the pump- you get this as you turn on the ignition, or when the amp switches the coil- so as you have been messing around with the coil, Id check you dont have a wire off at the coil.

[hot metal]

blitzracing said:

The ECU needs a pulse from the coil to run the pump- you get this as you turn on the ignition, or when the amp switches the coil- so as you have been messing around with the coil, Id check you dont have a wire off at the coil.

Fair point, I did`nt put it back on myself ,a friend did it, I will check in the morning

[hot metal]

Well , given up for the day, out of ideas, no power to the fuel pump, odd it was priming 1st thing yesterday.....

[jamienshelly]

Swap the 2 relays round (ecu and fuel pump), if the fuel pump primes, a new relay is needed.
Also check that you ign pack has a good earth at the plenum, No earth, No spark (or very weak)

[hot metal]

jamienshelly said:

Swap the 2 relays round (ecu and fuel pump), if the fuel pump primes, a new relay is needed.
Also check that you ign pack has a good earth at the plenum, No earth, No spark (or very weak)

Thanks, something else to try anyway, I`m getting close to dragging it off to Melton Mowbray, which is starting to sound expensive.

[blitzracing]

You can do a really simple test- remove the dizzy cap, rotor arm, and plastic cap that covers the magnetic trigger rotor. Then rotate the engine until one of the rotor lobe sits directly opposite the pick up. Then remove the main HT lead from the dizzy cap and jam a spark plug in with tinfoil or whatever and then ground the plug. Now turn on the ignition, and tap the gap between the rotor and trigger pick up with a flat screw driver to close the gap. You should get a spark from the plug, and the pump should prime. If this fails try sticking a magnet to the screwdriver shaft and repeating. No spark means you have a coil, coil supply, or amp issue (not forgetting the immobiliser ). You can always check for power on the positive side of the coil- its will be less than 12 volts as the system runs a ballast.

[hot metal]

blitzracing said:

You can do a really simple test- remove the dizzy cap, rotor arm, and plastic cap that covers the magnetic trigger rotor. Then rotate the engine until one of the rotor lobe sits directly opposite the pick up. Then remove the main HT lead from the dizzy cap and jam a spark plug in with tinfoil or whatever and then ground the plug. Now turn on the ignition, and tap the gap between the rotor and trigger pick up with a flat screw driver to close the gap. You should get a spark from the plug, and the pump should prime. If this fails try sticking a magnet to the screwdriver shaft and repeating. No spark means you have a coil, coil supply, or amp issue (not forgetting the immobiliser ). You can always check for power on the positive side of the coil- its will be less than 12 volts as the system runs a ballast.

Crikey, I`ll be sure to try & follow all that, thanks for the post. Can I just ask, can all of this be down to the immobilizer alone & how to fix it?

[hot metal]

Not sure what happened in the end, I left it last weekend with a dead fuel pump. Yesterday I hot wired the pump, fuel was getting to the engine & there was a spark but no life to the injectors. Checked the fuses & the 20A ecu fuse had blown, replaced it & she started up straight away, no obvious ill effects. I will be carrying some spare 20A fuses for now & keep an eye on it, not that I`m going anywhere at the mo.
Thanks to all for their help & I think I will be looking at the pre-cats again when the weather is better next year.

[davelittlewood]

OP,

You said that when the problem started there was a loud noise from the engine, is it still there (when the engine does start)?

As it's only one bank that gets too hot then it must be some thing that is NOT common to both. I'm not suggesting anything new that previous guys haven't suggested just giving you a list and come encouragement.
It will run again and you will enjoy driving it!

Go through the list systematically and once you've found that something is OK then tick it off the list.

First thing is to put the kettle on and then have a read through these two pages:

http://www.g33.co.uk/fuel_injection.htm - All kudos to Mark.
http://www.britishv8.org/Articles/Rover-14CUX-EFI.... -from the USA but still a good read.

then put the kettle on again and have another read of Mark's page - (I have this as a bookmark and keep going back to it!)

Make a list and then go through it systematically and record all your findings - if you do take it to a garage then hand over a copy of all you've tried and what you've found out.

Do all the checks on Mark's page. You might want to consider getting a copy of rover gauge to see what the ECU thinks it it trying to do.


A list of all the things that previous posters have suggested:
- precat
- injectors
- HT leads (not the king lead) Swap these over if they are long enough.
- extenders (Swap all the extenders from the left and right banks)
- plugs (swap all these or simply buy 4 for the left bank)
- valves (if you had chipped exhaust valve would the charge simply piss out into the exhaust on the compression stroke?)
- ECU this has two circuits (one for each bank/lambda sensor) so it could be the ECU failing - borrow and ECU?
- Lambda sensor (@Mark Blitzracing - the ECU will be on closed loop on tick over so would a knackered sensor cause over it fuelling - maybe not to this extent?)

The fuse for the ECU blew - hmmm

Worst case (ignition wise) is a fault in the wiring loom, would be real PITA to find.

The injectors are fed a 12V live and the ECU earths the injectors. A break in the insulation would cause an injector to simply be on all the time, you'd end up with a really rich mixture (or would it simply flood the cylinder??)

(Notice to the other helpful gents, if I'm talking b*****cks on anything then please correct it as I don't want to send the guy off on a wild goose chase)

Good look mate.

Dave

[hot metal]

Thanks for the input Dave, all good to know. It`s running fine at the moment but I can`t help feeling there is something lurking undiscovered, a fault in the loom maybe.

Andy