Chim 450 not starting! Help me please, lovely people!
Discussion
Hi All!
So since my last small issue with the chim (a few months back it wasnt running great, you lovely people pointed me at rotor arm and dizzy cap, which I changed and its been running great ever since!) everything has been perfect.
I used the chim this weekend to run some errands and generally give it a run as it hadnt been used as much over the past few weeks.
Occasionally once or twice the past few weeks when its been very cold in the morning, the car has died the moment its been started. I simply started it a second time gave it a blip or two of throttle and its been fine. Usually the car lives in an underground car park during the week and I just use it in the evenings when needed and the weekends I drive it home from the car park Friday, and back to the car park Monday!
Yesterday, I went to drive it back before work as normal. The car wasnt used on Sunday, only on Saturday (when I did finally give it a wash!). I turned the key and it started first time as normal, then it died. No worries I thought, so again started it a second time and gave it a blip, this time I didnt give it as much of a blip as I usually did and it died again straight away. Since this second start it now wont start at all.
Fuel primp is priming, starter motor seems to be cranking the engine, but it wont start. I tried 5 times yesterday, then had to head to work.
I didnt get a chance to look last night, and I guess I kind of expected it to work fine today, and yesterday to just have been the car having a funny five minutes.
Again this morning though it wouldnt start! I tried another 5 or 6 times and no joy!
So thoughts? Its been pretty wet and cold the past few days, could there be moisture in something? Should I give the battery a boost and try again?
Thanks All!
So since my last small issue with the chim (a few months back it wasnt running great, you lovely people pointed me at rotor arm and dizzy cap, which I changed and its been running great ever since!) everything has been perfect.
I used the chim this weekend to run some errands and generally give it a run as it hadnt been used as much over the past few weeks.
Occasionally once or twice the past few weeks when its been very cold in the morning, the car has died the moment its been started. I simply started it a second time gave it a blip or two of throttle and its been fine. Usually the car lives in an underground car park during the week and I just use it in the evenings when needed and the weekends I drive it home from the car park Friday, and back to the car park Monday!
Yesterday, I went to drive it back before work as normal. The car wasnt used on Sunday, only on Saturday (when I did finally give it a wash!). I turned the key and it started first time as normal, then it died. No worries I thought, so again started it a second time and gave it a blip, this time I didnt give it as much of a blip as I usually did and it died again straight away. Since this second start it now wont start at all.
Fuel primp is priming, starter motor seems to be cranking the engine, but it wont start. I tried 5 times yesterday, then had to head to work.
I didnt get a chance to look last night, and I guess I kind of expected it to work fine today, and yesterday to just have been the car having a funny five minutes.
Again this morning though it wouldnt start! I tried another 5 or 6 times and no joy!
So thoughts? Its been pretty wet and cold the past few days, could there be moisture in something? Should I give the battery a boost and try again?
Thanks All!
washing mine tends to cause fewer plugs firing when i start it.
If the battery is turning over the engine then it isn't the problem,. If you have flattened it trying, then it will need a charge.
If you tried several times at one sitting then you almost certainly flooded it. If you can smell a stink of fuel at least fuel is getting through. I have heard a theory that you can then started it by holding the ignition key on start and flooring the throttle
It does to me sound like damp in the electrics - last time mine was left a week and then washed it did start....but had to be held on the throttle for the first three junctions and the worst-ever multi-cylinder misfire took 15 miles to clear. Arrived at my TVR indie 70 miles later - firing perfectly and he found no fault.
I suggest you try a shot of WD40 or Damp Start around the plugs, leads, dizzie, coil etc. before you look deeper into the ignition system
If the battery is turning over the engine then it isn't the problem,. If you have flattened it trying, then it will need a charge.
If you tried several times at one sitting then you almost certainly flooded it. If you can smell a stink of fuel at least fuel is getting through. I have heard a theory that you can then started it by holding the ignition key on start and flooring the throttle
It does to me sound like damp in the electrics - last time mine was left a week and then washed it did start....but had to be held on the throttle for the first three junctions and the worst-ever multi-cylinder misfire took 15 miles to clear. Arrived at my TVR indie 70 miles later - firing perfectly and he found no fault.
I suggest you try a shot of WD40 or Damp Start around the plugs, leads, dizzie, coil etc. before you look deeper into the ignition system
Thing's I would do in order of doing until it started...
Definitely got fuel in it? Don't trust the gauge, if you think it's under quarter of a tank throw some petrol in it.
Check for spark. Pull a lead off of the engine, stick an old sparkplug in it, rest it on a metal bit of the engine and turn the ignition.
Unplug the fuel relay, it's whatever one clicks when the pump primes, and crank the ignition for a bit to clear the bores of any petrol.
Spray a s
t load of easystart at it 
Definitely got fuel in it? Don't trust the gauge, if you think it's under quarter of a tank throw some petrol in it.
Check for spark. Pull a lead off of the engine, stick an old sparkplug in it, rest it on a metal bit of the engine and turn the ignition.
Unplug the fuel relay, it's whatever one clicks when the pump primes, and crank the ignition for a bit to clear the bores of any petrol.
Spray a s
t load of easystart at it Ok, thanks! I shall dry everything visible ignition related and spray some WD40!
The battery is still turning the starter, but given the number of times I have tried, it must be down on power some amount!
I have a spare ignition coil, which I shall try as well if the above doesn't work!
Wish I had parked it back in its weekday home Saturday evening now, probably going to end up with a parking ticket as well (its singles yellows outside my house, which is fine on Sunday and Saturday evening!)
The battery is still turning the starter, but given the number of times I have tried, it must be down on power some amount!
I have a spare ignition coil, which I shall try as well if the above doesn't work!
Wish I had parked it back in its weekday home Saturday evening now, probably going to end up with a parking ticket as well (its singles yellows outside my house, which is fine on Sunday and Saturday evening!)
CaterhamJoy said:
It is under a quarter, but shouldnt be by much.
I don't have any old spark plugs lying around but I will check for a spark with the current ones.
I haven't played with the fuel pump relays before, is that in with battery under the passenger footwell?
Thanks
I have run out on the A1 at 70 mph before now with the gauge showing about 1.5 gallons.....I don't have any old spark plugs lying around but I will check for a spark with the current ones.
I haven't played with the fuel pump relays before, is that in with battery under the passenger footwell?
Thanks
Yes, the fuel pump relay is in the rats nest by the battery, but if you can hear it priming then that's not the problem. Test for a spark as Spaeman said, or change the coil.
Stick a note on the screen saying "TVR - broken down"
Yeah, it's one of the silver ones by the battery. Ones for the ECU and the other is the pump.
WD40 probably won't help much, if it's still not starting and you have spark get some of this> http://www.halfords.com/motoring/engine-oils-fluid... and spray it up the air intake whilst someone else turns the engine over. It's more explosive than petrol so will kick it into life, don't spray an entire can up there though, if it hasn't started after 10 seconds there's something else wrong.
WD40 probably won't help much, if it's still not starting and you have spark get some of this> http://www.halfords.com/motoring/engine-oils-fluid... and spray it up the air intake whilst someone else turns the engine over. It's more explosive than petrol so will kick it into life, don't spray an entire can up there though, if it hasn't started after 10 seconds there's something else wrong.
Just a general tip , for future reference regarding washing the car. I always open the bonnet and lay towels over the engine bay, particularly under the vents to reduce water ingress to anything electrical.
Edited to add: Having read that back I'm beginning to realise I might be getting a bit sad !
Edited to add: Having read that back I'm beginning to realise I might be getting a bit sad !
s p a c e m a n said:
Yeah, it's one of the silver ones by the battery. Ones for the ECU and the other is the pump.
The fuel pump relay has a red stripe and is in the blue holder. The ecu relay also has a red stripe and is in the black holder.If you have flooded the engine, floor the throttle and crank engine BUT with the fuel pump relay removed first so you don't send unburnt fuel to the cats.
Good luck.
It's parked on the road?
What is the camber like?
I ran mine out of fuel in the factory carpark. It is on a bit of a hill and the car was lent over just enough so stop the fuel getting into the outlet pipe.
The gauge said 1/4 tank but it wasn't even trying until I put another 5 litres in it.
Good luck
What is the camber like?
I ran mine out of fuel in the factory carpark. It is on a bit of a hill and the car was lent over just enough so stop the fuel getting into the outlet pipe.
The gauge said 1/4 tank but it wasn't even trying until I put another 5 litres in it.
Good luck
Hi All!
So after all the suggestions on here and quick call with Nick from Fernhurst. I ordered some new plugs and set about the work. I removed the fuel pump relay and started it a few times to clear an excess fuel. Fitted the new spark plugs and tried again. Once again no joy. I fitted a spare new ignition coil I had, again no joy. I went and got an extra 5 litres of petrol in case it had run out, again no joy. I sat there with my foot to the floor and kept cranking for a few minutes, again no joy.
The one thing I forgot to do was put a plug next to the block and check for spark, shall do that this evening (I blame the fact I was cold and wet and it was 10PM)
Its not even trying, it doesn't cough and splutter and not start, it just sits there turningover not even trying.
Another odd thing I noticed, I locked the car, drove off in the other car to get fuel and as I drove past the TVR the alarm went off. I stopped, unlocked and locked again, and went to get fuel, when I came back and drove past it, it went off again. Later that night a neighbour told me that it had been going off and on all Sunday?
Its never been that sensitive, in fact its only gone off once or twice in the past, if a door hasn't been properly closed, or I have unlocked it, but not disabled the immoboliser, then locked again.
Does the alarm/immobiliser (its the Meta one with a remote fob), do anything ignition wise? I know it controls the fuel pump relay, which I can hear (and I can hear the fuel pump) turning on just before I start the car once the fob has been pressed, which I have always been told means the immoboliser is disabled, but does it doing anything 'spark' wise as it were?
Its not starting, so it can only be spark, fuel or compression surely. I can't see that it would have lost all compression overnight (it did after all start then die twice Monday morning and was fine all saturday). Which leaves fuel or spark. I can hear the fuel pump and relay once the button is pressed (and the key is in stage 3).
Very very frustrated
!
So after all the suggestions on here and quick call with Nick from Fernhurst. I ordered some new plugs and set about the work. I removed the fuel pump relay and started it a few times to clear an excess fuel. Fitted the new spark plugs and tried again. Once again no joy. I fitted a spare new ignition coil I had, again no joy. I went and got an extra 5 litres of petrol in case it had run out, again no joy. I sat there with my foot to the floor and kept cranking for a few minutes, again no joy.
The one thing I forgot to do was put a plug next to the block and check for spark, shall do that this evening (I blame the fact I was cold and wet and it was 10PM)
Its not even trying, it doesn't cough and splutter and not start, it just sits there turningover not even trying.
Another odd thing I noticed, I locked the car, drove off in the other car to get fuel and as I drove past the TVR the alarm went off. I stopped, unlocked and locked again, and went to get fuel, when I came back and drove past it, it went off again. Later that night a neighbour told me that it had been going off and on all Sunday?
Its never been that sensitive, in fact its only gone off once or twice in the past, if a door hasn't been properly closed, or I have unlocked it, but not disabled the immoboliser, then locked again.
Does the alarm/immobiliser (its the Meta one with a remote fob), do anything ignition wise? I know it controls the fuel pump relay, which I can hear (and I can hear the fuel pump) turning on just before I start the car once the fob has been pressed, which I have always been told means the immoboliser is disabled, but does it doing anything 'spark' wise as it were?
Its not starting, so it can only be spark, fuel or compression surely. I can't see that it would have lost all compression overnight (it did after all start then die twice Monday morning and was fine all saturday). Which leaves fuel or spark. I can hear the fuel pump and relay once the button is pressed (and the key is in stage 3).
Very very frustrated
!I had a no start issue recently, with similar symptoms to yourself and it turned out to be the dizzy cap. Check you have a good spark at the dizzy end of the king lead from the coil first - this means spark is getting to the dizzy. If you have good spark to the dizzy, replace the rotor arm with a decent new one. If it still doesn't start, replace the cap, swap the leads one at a time from old to new making sure the new cap is orientated correctly - there is a locating lug on the inside edge of the cap base to help you get it right.
Hope this helps,
Ged
Hope this helps,
Ged
It's going to be lack of spark unless you've managed to unplug all of the injectors, the ecu is probably working ok if it's priming the pump.
The immobiliser is only a cat 2 and does the pump and starter motor circuits as standard.
Check for spark, take the dizzy off and see how worn it all is in there, stick a multimeter on the back of the coil and check that it's got power. Try swapping the king lead from the coil with one of the plug ones. One of those should give you a direction to aim in
The immobiliser is only a cat 2 and does the pump and starter motor circuits as standard.
Check for spark, take the dizzy off and see how worn it all is in there, stick a multimeter on the back of the coil and check that it's got power. Try swapping the king lead from the coil with one of the plug ones. One of those should give you a direction to aim in
CaterhamJoy said:
Ged!
Thanks for the advice. I changed the rotor arm and dizzy cap about 2 months ago, so I would be surprised if its that, however, I shall check for spark at both the king lead and an individual lead as well!
Thanks
Rotor arms and dizzy caps are notorious for variable quality and longevity. Thanks for the advice. I changed the rotor arm and dizzy cap about 2 months ago, so I would be surprised if its that, however, I shall check for spark at both the king lead and an individual lead as well!
Thanks
When I looked at my old dizzy cap, it looked fairly new and all in good order inside but must have had a hairline crack or something that was invisible to the naked eye. The rotor arm also looked perfectly serviceable to the naked eye as well.
For the cost of replacement parts, it's a simple job to replace these items and, if it still doesn't start, should take these out of the equation.
One thing I did notice with mine was that the king lead showed a good healthy regular spark but the spark at the leads was not regular - i.e. they weren't sparking once every two revs (4 strokes) of the engine and the sparks appeared significantly weaker than that at the king lead.
Ged
CaterhamJoy said:
Ged!
Thanks for the advice. I changed the rotor arm and dizzy cap about 2 months ago, so I would be surprised if its that, however, I shall check for spark at both the king lead and an individual lead as well!
Thanks
Why did you change them? Did you have any problems with the old ones?Thanks for the advice. I changed the rotor arm and dizzy cap about 2 months ago, so I would be surprised if its that, however, I shall check for spark at both the king lead and an individual lead as well!
Thanks
Do you still have them, if so ,[and they were ok before you changed them], refit them and see if it fires up.
Plenty of threads on non Lucas caps and rotor arms that are just not up to the job.
TJC46 said:
Why did you change them? Did you have any problems with the old ones?
Do you still have them, if so ,[and they were ok before you changed them], refit them and see if it fires up.
Plenty of threads on non Lucas caps and rotor arms that are just not up to the job.
I heard that Lucas is now a Chinese owned company.Do you still have them, if so ,[and they were ok before you changed them], refit them and see if it fires up.
Plenty of threads on non Lucas caps and rotor arms that are just not up to the job.
I changed them as I had issues with the car running slightly rough on occasion, changing the rotor arm and dizzy which were both worn fixed the issue.
I checked the rotor arm and dizzy yesterday and they both looked fine.
Popped home just now at lunch, took one of the old plugs I removed yesterday, attached it to one of the ht leads from the dizzy, wedged by the head and turned the car over while a buddy of mine looked for a spark. None!
Replaced the king lead with one of the HT leads directly onto a plug and again wedged it by the head, again no spark. So spark seems to be the issue.
I changed the coil last night, and it wasn't working with the old one or the new one, so pretty sure its not that. So I suppose I could be looking at a blown fuse somewhere or maybe the ignition amplifier?
I also considered the batter might not be at full strength (I have tried starting it a good number of times now), but the car still tries to start and the lights work etc, so I would have though even if it was low, if it has enough juice to turn the starter motor and power the lights, it would have enough to generate a spark?
Thanks
I checked the rotor arm and dizzy yesterday and they both looked fine.
Popped home just now at lunch, took one of the old plugs I removed yesterday, attached it to one of the ht leads from the dizzy, wedged by the head and turned the car over while a buddy of mine looked for a spark. None!
Replaced the king lead with one of the HT leads directly onto a plug and again wedged it by the head, again no spark. So spark seems to be the issue.
I changed the coil last night, and it wasn't working with the old one or the new one, so pretty sure its not that. So I suppose I could be looking at a blown fuse somewhere or maybe the ignition amplifier?
I also considered the batter might not be at full strength (I have tried starting it a good number of times now), but the car still tries to start and the lights work etc, so I would have though even if it was low, if it has enough juice to turn the starter motor and power the lights, it would have enough to generate a spark?
Thanks
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