Impreza steering rack mod
Discussion
Thanks for the links etc re the steering column linkage. Didn't get that far this evening due to much farting about with the HP hose but no bother.
Sense check me!
Rack is in; the rack bar is 138 mm longer than the body, by measuring the free ends. So dead centre is 69 mm free each end. Set in this position, it's *about* 1.25 turns to the rack stops each way, so 2.5 L2L. This is with the FA082 rack. Happy with that.
With rack notionally dead centre there is 29 mm n/s and 31 mm o/s from the chassis rail outer edge to the end of the rack bar. This is measuring by setting a metal rule vertically against the chasses rail and measuring from where it intersects the rack to the end of the rack.
Well, in my view that's as near as dammit central and the difference will be taken up in the track rod ends. I had 13 turns one side and 16 the other.
I'd be amazed if this led to rubbing on the wishbones especially as I'm on 17" rims so have at least 1/2" extra clearance anyway. So I'm planning to fit the TVR nylon lock stoppers as is and crack on. If I could be bothered - I have time and probably can - I could level it up by adding a 2mm stopper to the n/s end of the rack. If either side rubs, I'll add that and whatever extra is needed on both sides to clear it.
It would have to go on which ever end of the rack was shorter, right, so that at full lock the effective end of the rack with the washers on is the same each side.... it's one of those inside out/back to front calculations that I always cock up.
Progress!
Edited for posting when tired and had 2 GnTs
Sense check me!
Rack is in; the rack bar is 138 mm longer than the body, by measuring the free ends. So dead centre is 69 mm free each end. Set in this position, it's *about* 1.25 turns to the rack stops each way, so 2.5 L2L. This is with the FA082 rack. Happy with that.
With rack notionally dead centre there is 29 mm n/s and 31 mm o/s from the chassis rail outer edge to the end of the rack bar. This is measuring by setting a metal rule vertically against the chasses rail and measuring from where it intersects the rack to the end of the rack.
Well, in my view that's as near as dammit central and the difference will be taken up in the track rod ends. I had 13 turns one side and 16 the other.
I'd be amazed if this led to rubbing on the wishbones especially as I'm on 17" rims so have at least 1/2" extra clearance anyway. So I'm planning to fit the TVR nylon lock stoppers as is and crack on. If I could be bothered - I have time and probably can - I could level it up by adding a 2mm stopper to the n/s end of the rack. If either side rubs, I'll add that and whatever extra is needed on both sides to clear it.
It would have to go on which ever end of the rack was shorter, right, so that at full lock the effective end of the rack with the washers on is the same each side.... it's one of those inside out/back to front calculations that I always cock up.
Progress!
Edited for posting when tired and had 2 GnTs
Edited by 2gins on Saturday 7th March 07:27
Famous last words. All that can go wrong now is
Tie rods don't fit too long / too short
Can't get linkage bar sorted
Can't get Geo close enough to drive
Leaky McLeakface
HP hose rubs/burns through on the block casting
Exhaust won't nip up / seal properly
Then it's onto the valley gasket and coolant overhaul + oil change but I can see 101 getting that job because I've been given a hurry up by the landlord at the parking.
Tie rods don't fit too long / too short
Can't get linkage bar sorted
Can't get Geo close enough to drive
Leaky McLeakface
HP hose rubs/burns through on the block casting
Exhaust won't nip up / seal properly
Then it's onto the valley gasket and coolant overhaul + oil change but I can see 101 getting that job because I've been given a hurry up by the landlord at the parking.
For the steering shaft I have used a 330mm long shaft that I got from a company called Rally Design. I had a problem with clearing the top wishbone when on full drop so I have had to change the top UJ for one that is longer which I believe is standard fitment on a PAS fitted car, and I have had to cut about 6mm off the bottom of the Ford UJ at the rack, this just allows the shaft to clear the wishbone. It was bit of a pain fitting it all as I had to try and assemble everything then get the rack bolted in place. My rack is now 2.5 tuns L2L but that is with 10mm wide lock stops fitted to both sides. Got tracking roughly in the right place by using a string line from the back wheels to get some sort of rough alignment on the front, hopefully will be good enough to get mobile. Just about to head out to garage now to try and get finished off and fire it up, then we will really see what’s happening.
Good luck with that.
I used the string affair to line up the front wheels to drive to an alignment place. Surprisingly it was only out by about 1 1/2° if I remember correctly.
I recall the faffing around in the wheel arch. A bit of trimming here a bit of clearance there but once it’s done it is there for good.
I did the first conversion on my old 4.6 and the current conversion on my 5.5. Since fitting there has never been a problem.
I used the string affair to line up the front wheels to drive to an alignment place. Surprisingly it was only out by about 1 1/2° if I remember correctly.
I recall the faffing around in the wheel arch. A bit of trimming here a bit of clearance there but once it’s done it is there for good.
I did the first conversion on my old 4.6 and the current conversion on my 5.5. Since fitting there has never been a problem.
kevd said:
Well so far so good, all back together and engine running, no leaks showing which is unbelievable, I had visions of ATF spraying all over place! Change all oils, filters and a few other bits and bobs whilst we’re at it tomorrow, and maybe get her down from the stands.
Good work man. I secured a fitting from the local pirtek, got blown off by a local wearer of shiny suits and pointy shoes, and spent the rest of the day dismantling a washing machine (and putting plasters on me).Maybe tomorrow I will see if the fitting fits and measure up for my steering linkage.
F M L
I've calmed down now but a few hours ago I was ready to burn the car.
The problem stems from the fact that the new HP hose has a radius from being on the reel, and the 45 degree fitting that I specified sits where it wants to sit at full tighten. Which is 45 degrees off from where I need it to be. Just rotate the hose. No. Hose will sit where it sits. Because it curves over the cam pulley bearing, it does not want to be rotated.
OK. Take hose off, fit to the rack in required position and install as a sub assembly. Yes. That will work. No. Because: 1) need 3 hands. 1 to hold the hose in the required position. 2 to tighten the female swivel nut - this is the 1st nut in the photo below. 3 to hold the 3/4 AF nut on the bump stop adapter in position. But the male part of the hose adapter just wants to rotate on final torque, and I can't hold it because of the curve on the hose. I really need a bench and 2 clamps. I have a concrete floor and my arms and legs.
So, I bought a 45 degree swivel adapter from Pirtek. That will take out the angle caused by the hose and step the hose away from the oil filter, which is a double win. It worked beautifully. Except, for the extra adapter now means the hose adapter is about 1/2" lower and fouls on the next cross member. You can see it in the photo above. It looks marginal there but that is just perspective. When you add an extra adapter between the male bit sticking out (which fits into the hose) and the bump stop lad, it is lower and fouls the chassis.
Again, it is about 1-2 mm.
Just writing it up, I am feeling the hate rising.
Off to the hose place again on tuesday - please make this hose end rotate 90 degrees.
I am actually thinking of getting them to make a hard piped section up past the oil filter to make damned sure it fits right.
So far, £30 in useless fittings
And about 2 weeks f
king about with the chassis rib plate and all this jazz.
The problem stems from the fact that the new HP hose has a radius from being on the reel, and the 45 degree fitting that I specified sits where it wants to sit at full tighten. Which is 45 degrees off from where I need it to be. Just rotate the hose. No. Hose will sit where it sits. Because it curves over the cam pulley bearing, it does not want to be rotated.
OK. Take hose off, fit to the rack in required position and install as a sub assembly. Yes. That will work. No. Because: 1) need 3 hands. 1 to hold the hose in the required position. 2 to tighten the female swivel nut - this is the 1st nut in the photo below. 3 to hold the 3/4 AF nut on the bump stop adapter in position. But the male part of the hose adapter just wants to rotate on final torque, and I can't hold it because of the curve on the hose. I really need a bench and 2 clamps. I have a concrete floor and my arms and legs.
So, I bought a 45 degree swivel adapter from Pirtek. That will take out the angle caused by the hose and step the hose away from the oil filter, which is a double win. It worked beautifully. Except, for the extra adapter now means the hose adapter is about 1/2" lower and fouls on the next cross member. You can see it in the photo above. It looks marginal there but that is just perspective. When you add an extra adapter between the male bit sticking out (which fits into the hose) and the bump stop lad, it is lower and fouls the chassis.
Again, it is about 1-2 mm.
Just writing it up, I am feeling the hate rising.
Off to the hose place again on tuesday - please make this hose end rotate 90 degrees.
I am actually thinking of getting them to make a hard piped section up past the oil filter to make damned sure it fits right.
So far, £30 in useless fittings
And about 2 weeks f
king about with the chassis rib plate and all this jazz.Edited by 2gins on Sunday 8th March 22:41
SILICONEKID 357HP said:
Where are you in the UK ? You could have a look at mine .
Cheers - SW London - KewI'm not sure it would help tbh. I know what needs to be done. It's just the fiddling about making it happen. All for the sake of 2-3 mm.
If you're close by I'll take you up on it. I'm in touching distance, it's just this ******* hose that's messing with my zen.
And the washing machine, but I've fixed that (after Mrs 2gins re-enacted the Moehne damn by opening the door during the test cycle, when it isn't interlocked)
It's been that kind of weekend
Very annoying that it's not coming together easily.
Maybe mine was easier as I used an electric pump but the whole fitting was no more than a day to change the lot.
Nibble a bit out of the gusset for clearance.
Bolt in the rack.
Make up bracket and fit pump to inner wing
Measure distances in between pump and rack with an old piece of hose.
Take rack and pump down to Pirtek and have pipes made up.
Refit and connect pipes
Measure and cut steering shaft to length
Bugger about a bit with the KA UJ to clear the chassis
Wire up pump with its separate supply, fuse and trigger wire from fuel pump
Sounds easy but I had some good advice from Steve (SSPPGG)
Good luck with completing yours.
Maybe mine was easier as I used an electric pump but the whole fitting was no more than a day to change the lot.
Nibble a bit out of the gusset for clearance.
Bolt in the rack.
Make up bracket and fit pump to inner wing
Measure distances in between pump and rack with an old piece of hose.
Take rack and pump down to Pirtek and have pipes made up.
Refit and connect pipes
Measure and cut steering shaft to length
Bugger about a bit with the KA UJ to clear the chassis
Wire up pump with its separate supply, fuse and trigger wire from fuel pump
Sounds easy but I had some good advice from Steve (SSPPGG)
Good luck with completing yours.
kevd said:
for the adaptors into the Imprezza rack I used a company called JLS Motorsport 0121 525 5800, their website has all sorts of useful fittings. The part Nos are 791415 this is for the M14 adaptor (high presssure feed from pump) & 791615 for the M16 adaptor which is the low pressure return. The standard retun pipe has quite a large bore size of 1/2 inch, and the pipe is a push fit with Jubilee clip, so you will need some kind of adaptor to fit the hose to the 791615 adaptor
Kev, did thoser adapters work for you?The fittings look shorter than the one I've got, if that's the case it should lift the hose away from the cross brace and give me the clearance I need which will be half the battle won.
Other question - do you have a feel for whether it's sealing tight on the O-ring or stopping on the shoulder, with the O-ring just compressed enough to make a fluid tight seal? Mine doesn't screw all the way in, so with it tightened up just to give a tight seal on the O-ring it's still loose enough for the stress on the hose to unwind it. But if I tighten it in hard, it shreds the O-ring.
My fittings bill is getting a bit daft. Plenty of bits to return or put on ebay at some point.
Edit - I've had a bit of a eureka moment. They don't happen very often.
Turn the HP hose around. This will give me a 45 degree fitting at the pump meaning the flying end of the hose can go straight over the cam pulley bearing area without doing the 180 degree bend thing which can't be any good for the hose and adds to the stress in the whole system; and will give me about 4-6" extra hose to play with at the rack, meaning more scope to avoid rubbing on the oil filter; and a straight swivel fitting which I can couple on to the rack with more freedom instead of being constrained by the hose curvature; the Pirtek adapter will come off the rack and create the turn away from the cross braces and *should* have enough clearance especially with the more compact adapter from JLS above.
Saturday AM will proof of the pudding.
Edited by 2gins on Tuesday 10th March 09:07
Hi Phil,
Yes they are the adaptors I used, they seem to be OK and I dont have any visible leaks. These are a quite specific adaptor and they do differ slightly from a more common adaptor that is more common place, the main differences that I can see is that the small diameter protrusion that the O ring sits over is slightly flared and the main thread is shorter. The part numbers I quoted are for the correct parts. I have not had the car down from the stands yet so I dont know what will happen when everything is loaded up, but I have had it all running and steering operated with no visible leaks. I have posted up some pics if this helps.
Good luck, if you want a chat PM me and I might be easier to discuss on the phone.
Yes they are the adaptors I used, they seem to be OK and I dont have any visible leaks. These are a quite specific adaptor and they do differ slightly from a more common adaptor that is more common place, the main differences that I can see is that the small diameter protrusion that the O ring sits over is slightly flared and the main thread is shorter. The part numbers I quoted are for the correct parts. I have not had the car down from the stands yet so I dont know what will happen when everything is loaded up, but I have had it all running and steering operated with no visible leaks. I have posted up some pics if this helps.
Good luck, if you want a chat PM me and I might be easier to discuss on the phone.
kevd said:
Hi Phil,
Yes they are the adaptors I used, they seem to be OK and I dont have any visible leaks. These are a quite specific adaptor and they do differ slightly from a more common adaptor that is more common place, the main differences that I can see is that the small diameter protrusion that the O ring sits over is slightly flared and the main thread is shorter. The part numbers I quoted are for the correct parts. I have not had the car down from the stands yet so I dont know what will happen when everything is loaded up, but I have had it all running and steering operated with no visible leaks. I have posted up some pics if this helps.
Good luck, if you want a chat PM me and I might be easier to discuss on the phone.
Cheers. Are you using the original Land Rover pump or did you go down the electric route? Your hose routing would get me out of jail as well, but I looked at that and couldn't see any way of getting to the pump without falling foul of the serp belt or the exhaust.Yes they are the adaptors I used, they seem to be OK and I dont have any visible leaks. These are a quite specific adaptor and they do differ slightly from a more common adaptor that is more common place, the main differences that I can see is that the small diameter protrusion that the O ring sits over is slightly flared and the main thread is shorter. The part numbers I quoted are for the correct parts. I have not had the car down from the stands yet so I dont know what will happen when everything is loaded up, but I have had it all running and steering operated with no visible leaks. I have posted up some pics if this helps.
Good luck, if you want a chat PM me and I might be easier to discuss on the phone.
I've ordered that fitting and if I get a chance this week I'll see if the hose will go on in reverse.
[quote=2gins]
Cheers. Are you using the original Land Rover pump or did you go down the electric route? Your hose routing would get me out of jail as well, but I looked at that and couldn't see any way of getting to the pump without falling foul of the serp belt or the exhaust.
Yes I am using the standard LR pump as I thought it would be easier than going electric. My car had no PAS so I have had to retro fit the pump and pipes etc. The HP pipe runs parallel to the rack then goes round the upright part of the chassis and straight up into the pump. The LP return from the rack sits low on the triangulated part of the chassis, then goes up behind the oil filter, round the back of the alternator and into the reservoir, had to remove the alternator to get the pipes though and had to give them a spray with WD40 to lube them a bit which helped me to move them around into position, not sure if these routes are correct but seems to work and is well out of the way of belts and exhausts.
Cheers. Are you using the original Land Rover pump or did you go down the electric route? Your hose routing would get me out of jail as well, but I looked at that and couldn't see any way of getting to the pump without falling foul of the serp belt or the exhaust.
Yes I am using the standard LR pump as I thought it would be easier than going electric. My car had no PAS so I have had to retro fit the pump and pipes etc. The HP pipe runs parallel to the rack then goes round the upright part of the chassis and straight up into the pump. The LP return from the rack sits low on the triangulated part of the chassis, then goes up behind the oil filter, round the back of the alternator and into the reservoir, had to remove the alternator to get the pipes though and had to give them a spray with WD40 to lube them a bit which helped me to move them around into position, not sure if these routes are correct but seems to work and is well out of the way of belts and exhausts.
kevd said:
Yes I am using the standard LR pump as I thought it would be easier than going electric. My car had no PAS so I have had to retro fit the pump and pipes etc. The HP pipe runs parallel to the rack then goes round the upright part of the chassis and straight up into the pump. The LP return from the rack sits low on the triangulated part of the chassis, then goes up behind the oil filter, round the back of the alternator and into the reservoir, had to remove the alternator to get the pipes though and had to give them a spray with WD40 to lube them a bit which helped me to move them around into position, not sure if these routes are correct but seems to work and is well out of the way of belts and exhausts.
I'll have to have a look at that.
Your LP route sounds right, but I got my new hose in without any dismantling. So something has worked!
That was a battle.
New adapter has worked a treat. I've also copied Kev's hose route. I am not taking that HP hose off again, ever
I also got the steering column sorted - the original one appears to be a perfect fit. One spline is currently 5 mm short, the other end is 5 mm too far so it'll have to come off to get it proper, but it looks like it will go straight on. Might have to fettle the flats a bit. What TVR taketh away, TVR giveth back.
Real progress this afternoon and I was only at it for an hour and a half.
Edited by 2gins on Saturday 14th March 17:16
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