Valve to piston clearance

Valve to piston clearance

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Discussion

db484bhpv8

Original Poster:

8,655 posts

220 months

Monday 23rd February 2015
quotequote all
So whats the correct method in checking and how much do i need?

I am concerned ive ran too close with recent head work.
I am using similar thickness gaskets ie MLS 50 thou (was Elring composites).

I made some weak springs from wire and fitted the heads and rocker gear. The inlet is touching the piston just off TDC. I only get clearance by double shimming the rocker gear. But there is no preload taken into account in the hydraulic lifter due to the weak spring.

A little confused and a little worried.
Help

Aussie John

1,014 posts

231 months

Monday 23rd February 2015
quotequote all
Are the valves not recessed enough in the head.

Pupp

12,219 posts

272 months

Monday 23rd February 2015
quotequote all
Noticed last night from some pics you posted in a thread over the last day or two that no cut-outs apparent on your pistons; maybe an obvious way out if you have gone too close? However, I'm actually wondering if it's more a cam timing issue - not normally the inlets that clout the pistons but the exhausts (open toward a rising piston) - I'd make sure the cam timing is not over-advanced

db484bhpv8

Original Poster:

8,655 posts

220 months

Monday 23rd February 2015
quotequote all
Pupp said:
Noticed last night from some pics you posted in a thread over the last day or two that no cut-outs apparent on your pistons; maybe an obvious way out if you have gone too close? However, I'm actually wondering if it's more a cam timing issue - not normally the inlets that clout the pistons but the exhausts (open toward a rising piston) - I'd make sure the cam timing is not over-advanced
Thats interesting but wouldnt the exhaust have more clearance anyway due to the smaller diameter.
I should add that the timing was set a while ago by one of our friends on here. The engine idled nice enough and peak power was at 6000 rpm. Its a Real Steel Typhoon.
Maybe i will have to pull get the dial gauge and timing wheel out

Pupp

12,219 posts

272 months

Monday 23rd February 2015
quotequote all
Was assuming you'd had the cam out or timing gear off - scrub that if you've not disturbed anything there. Not familiar with the typhoon, what's the lift and duration etc?

db484bhpv8

Original Poster:

8,655 posts

220 months

Monday 23rd February 2015
quotequote all
Pupp said:
Was assuming you'd had the cam out or timing gear off - scrub that if you've not disturbed anything there. Not familiar with the typhoon, what's the lift and duration etc?
From Real steel web page, @0,50" In .218, Ex .218, Lift In 0.48" Ex 0,48"
From other source duration is quoted at 276

db484bhpv8

Original Poster:

8,655 posts

220 months

Monday 23rd February 2015
quotequote all

macdeb

8,508 posts

255 months

Monday 23rd February 2015
quotequote all
db484bhpv8 said:
So whats the correct method in checking and how much do i need?

I am concerned ive ran too close with recent head work.
I am using similar thickness gaskets ie MLS 50 thou (was Elring composites).

I made some weak springs from wire and fitted the heads and rocker gear. The inlet is touching the piston just off TDC. I only get clearance by double shimming the rocker gear. But there is no preload taken into account in the hydraulic lifter due to the weak spring.

A little confused and a little worried.
Help
Hi Mate, you need to check clearance with cam timed and lifter full of oil [lifters need to be empty when doing pre-load], plasticine on piston, bolt head, rocker etc, turn through cycle, head off and measure thickness of plasticine. From memory went for 30 thou' clearance but will check on that in my notes.

OleVix

1,438 posts

148 months

Monday 23rd February 2015
quotequote all
I think its strange that you have been able to run that cam without valve cutouts in the pistons! Might be very close indeed! I was told by v8d that to run the stealth I needed the valve reliefs!

db484bhpv8

Original Poster:

8,655 posts

220 months

Monday 23rd February 2015
quotequote all
macdeb said:
Hi Mate, you need to check clearance with cam timed and lifter full of oil [lifters need to be empty when doing pre-load], plasticine on piston, bolt head, rocker etc, turn through cycle, head off and measure thickness of plasticine. From memory went for 30 thou' clearance but will check on that in my notes.
First thing i will do when i get home Thursday!

db484bhpv8

Original Poster:

8,655 posts

220 months

Monday 23rd February 2015
quotequote all
OleVix said:
I think its strange that you have been able to run that cam without valve cutouts in the pistons! Might be very close indeed! I was told by v8d that to run the stealth I needed the valve reliefs!
The engine was built many moons ago and it was deemed the Typhoon was the biggest cam it would accept before the need for cutouts.
I may have run into a problem with recent head work.

spend

12,581 posts

251 months

Monday 23rd February 2015
quotequote all
macdeb said:
db484bhpv8 said:
So whats the correct method in checking and how much do i need?

I am concerned ive ran too close with recent head work.
I am using similar thickness gaskets ie MLS 50 thou (was Elring composites).

I made some weak springs from wire and fitted the heads and rocker gear. The inlet is touching the piston just off TDC. I only get clearance by double shimming the rocker gear. But there is no preload taken into account in the hydraulic lifter due to the weak spring.

A little confused and a little worried.
Help
Hi Mate, you need to check clearance with cam timed and lifter full of oil [lifters need to be empty when doing pre-load], plasticine on piston, bolt head, rocker etc, turn through cycle, head off and measure thickness of plasticine. From memory went for 30 thou' clearance but will check on that in my notes.
Not in my book.. If you don't have a solid lifter, take an old one and make it solid (epoxy, wedge a bolt in ...).

I too was surprised at the picture of 4.6 pistons without the reliefs... Not sure if BV heads were still being used.

db484bhpv8

Original Poster:

8,655 posts

220 months

Monday 23rd February 2015
quotequote all
Block is a 4.6 crossbolted (ex range rover i believe). Was tophatted just over a year ago.
Pistons are shallow bowl 4.0 no cutouts and sit 1mm below deck height.
Heads are ex '500' with the big valves. Just been rebuilt by Dave Knight.
Used to run standard Elring composites, this check is with a 50 thou MLS fitted.
Cam is Real steel Typhoon.
Rockers were shimmed by myself last time i put it together. I checked and double checked the preloads and had to use slightly different shims on 1 bank.

Note Dave Knight said he had to take 5 thou more off 1 head to match the chamber volumes now measured at 28.5 cc (The chambers are relieved of the bump).

db484bhpv8

Original Poster:

8,655 posts

220 months

Tuesday 24th February 2015
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To add.
David Knight tells me he had to take 12 thou off the worst head due to what he thought was overheating distortion.

SILICONEKID345HP

14,997 posts

231 months

Tuesday 24th February 2015
quotequote all
Do you think Nitrous is damaging your engine ?

db484bhpv8

Original Poster:

8,655 posts

220 months

Tuesday 24th February 2015
quotequote all
SILICONEKID345HP said:
Do you think Nitrous is damaging your engine ?
Yes

db484bhpv8

Original Poster:

8,655 posts

220 months

Sunday 1st March 2015
quotequote all
Inlet none, exhaust barely!


phazed

21,844 posts

204 months

Sunday 1st March 2015
quotequote all
Just as well you checked!

Cam timing correct?

If so then it's fly cut pistons.

Drop the dump, release the rods, number the pistons and send to Chesmans on the rods.

They can separate, balance and assemble.

Only constraint, (apart from cash) is time!

db484bhpv8

Original Poster:

8,655 posts

220 months

Sunday 1st March 2015
quotequote all
phazed said:
Just as well you checked!

Cam timing correct?

If so then it's fly cut pistons.

Drop the dump, release the rods, number the pistons and send to Chesmans on the rods.

They can separate, balance and assemble.

Only constraint, (apart from cash) is time!
I think the timing is out a little but dont think that will clear it.
I dont have time to send the pistons off.

db484bhpv8

Original Poster:

8,655 posts

220 months

Sunday 1st March 2015
quotequote all
Just tried it again with 2 composite gaskets in place.

About 1mm on the inlet and 3mm on the exhaust. Timings out right?



May need to employ this bad boy though