Chassis & wishbone coating final solution

[pb450]

ChimpOnGas said:

^^^ Proper Job ^^^^

Who did that for you?

It must be nice to completely banish all the powder coat to the bin where it belongs.

Like you say that's a finish that will easily last 30 years or more, clearly you subscribe to the following

"Do it right, do it once"

Proper job was done by Taylor TVR. Thoroughly recommended! It wasn't cheap and it wasn't quick but I'm VERY pleased with the overall result and finish. All done to a high standard.

As for costs, I will have to look this up as I had new shocks, clutch and a few other bits and pieces at the same time. (This is the danger with such work; you have to know where to stop!)

[ackbullchang]

Guys, can someone confirm if the 2k epoxy is the same as the 2k paint that is used for body work? If so, it seems possibly pretty dangerous for a home mechanic and should be left to the professionals.

http://www.locostbuilders.co.uk/viewthread.php?tid...

[caduceus]

ackbullchang said:

Guys, can someone confirm if the 2k epoxy is the same as the 2k paint that is used for body work? If so, it seems possibly pretty dangerous for a home mechanic and should be left to the professionals.

http://www.locostbuilders.co.uk/viewthread.php?tid...

No. It's not the same.

[ChimpOnGas]

All two component paint, clear coat and varnish systems give off isocyanates.

The delightful health effects of isocyanate exposure include irritation of skin and mucous membranes, chest tightness, and difficulty in breathing.

Isocyanates include compounds classified as potential human carcinogens and known to cause cancer in animals.

The main effects of hazardous exposures are occupational asthma and other lung problems, as well as irritation of the eyes, nose, throat, and skin.

As my old boss used to say, "If it smells bad & makes you dizzy boy, then that's the good stuff".

I used a 2k floor varnish when I restored the wood floors in my last house, me and a mate did it with rollers and the end result was still perfect 8 years later when I sold the house.

When I moved out I cleared all the furniture & simply mopped the floor over, it came up glossy and as good as the day we put it down, brilliant stuff!

The day of application was fun, just a small area of 20m sq, we used twin cartridge masks but we were still affected.

I needed a good 30 minutes to recover while my mate actually vomited in the street outside.

All two component systems are nasty, if you paint a car in 2k it's essential to have an air fed suit with a proper hood.

Paint shops are forced to use water based paints these days, they do have a small 2k quota but it's heavily controlled. I believe you can only increase your licensed 2k quota if you can prove you are doing a higher level of industrial work.

Water based automotive paints are environmentally friendly but not particularly durable, which is typically solved by the use of a proper 2k clear coat over it.

Two component wet paints, clear coats & floor varnishes are the absolute mutt's nut's, nothing touches it for durability.

A high solids epoxy mastic may not give you a glass smooth panel quality finish but it is perfect for a TVR chassis as it's resistance to abrasion and impact damage are second to none.

You simply can't even begin to compare powder coat with epoxy mastic, the two are on a different planet of quality, protection & durability.

Remember... "If it smells bad & makes you dizzy boy, then that's the good stuff"

[pb450]

Tyre Tread said:

Peter, would you mind giving an indication of costs please?

OK, so some costs.... Overall I was charged 67 hours for the complete job. Try doing that in your back garden!

The chassis prep (2 x shot-blasts, zinc, primer and top coats) was sub'd out and came to £980, including all labour and materials. This included wishbones and much bracketry.

Everything else, including fitting new outriggers, (the rest of the cahassis was solid) was completed in-house. Parts were not so much, (I have not included cost of Nitrons and new clutch. These were effectively fitted FOC) and consisted of nuts, bolts, washers, fuel lines, brake hoses, engine mounts, consumables, etc. Total parts came to just shy of £400 + VAT

So final bill, inclusive of all the above, was £5700 + VAT. Sharp intake of breath? Sound like a lot? Some facts:

I was never going to do this job myself. I've served my time on garage floors with spanners and grazed knuckles. I want to drive and enjoy the car now.
I have niether the space or the time to do the work, although the enthusiasm would be there if I had nothing else to do. I do. I have a wife, a job and two teenage sons. Need I say more?
I intend to keep the car for the forseeable future and I know I will never see this money again. It is not a financial investment BUT it will keep the car in good order for the rest of my driving life. Discuss....
The work was carried out 25 miles from home, so regular progress visits were easily achievable. The job was done properly and I've had no problems since it all went back together. (Well, one small hot-start issue but this was quickly fixed. Again, another good reason to have the work done near home.)

So there you have it. This is the first time I've really anaylsed the final bill(s) and it's pretty damn close to the original estimate. I hope this is of some help to the TVR massive.

[ChilliWhizz]

Great thread... Properly informative guys....

[Tyre Tread]

Peter, thank you.

It sounds a lot but when you consider what's involved it really isn't considering that chassis will outlast us all and all of the disaaembly and reassembly time.

[portzi]

Tyre Tread said:

Peter, thank you.

It sounds a lot but when you consider what's involved it really isn't considering that chassis will outlast us all and all of the disaaembly and reassembly time.

I for one certainly would not pay anything around 6-15k for any TVR thats 13 years and older which hasn't had a full chassis restoration unless its been stored in a garage for all its life and has never seen salty roads so its money well spent.

[caduceus]

Could someone 'in the know' advise me on which one of these will suffice for Chim chassis welding please?

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Sealey-130Amp-Mig-Welder...

https://www.machinemart.co.uk/shop/product/details...

The Clarke is more expensive so I'd rather the Sealey. But will it be up to the job?

Thanks
Cad

[portzi]

caduceus said:

Could someone 'in the know' advise me on which one of these will suffice for Chim chassis welding please?

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Sealey-130Amp-Mig-Welder...

https://www.machinemart.co.uk/shop/product/details...

The Clarke is more expensive so I'd rather the Sealey. But will it be up to the job?

Thanks
Cad

They both look like hobby welding plants for those prices, its not just the tools its the tradesman aswell. Have you done much MIG welding? You would need to try them out first on tube to tube, and tube to plate assemblies, to check good joints and where the filler metal is not just laying ontop of the joint not getting correct fusion, loads to think about rather than just cranking the amps up and pulling the torch trigger.

[Chuffmeister]

portzi said:

They both look like hobby welding plants for those prices, its not just the tools its the tradesman aswell. Have you done much MIG welding? You would need to try them out first on tube to tube, and tube to plate assemblies, to check good joints and where the filler metal is not just laying ontop of the joint not getting correct fusion, loads to think about rather than just cranking the amps up and pulling the torch trigger.

^^^

Never a truer word said. However, get some gas, crank up the amps, pick up some scrap steel and start practicing. Loads of tutorials on YouTube as well. Don't expect to be tigging like Clive F, but WTF, its welding, not rocket science...

Still, depending on time, it may be as cheap to spend the money on a professional. You know it will cost you more and take five times longer DIY. You gain some experience and skills the DIY way though. It is this approach, including the b@lls-ups that makes this forum interesting.

[caduceus]

portzi said:

Have you done much MIG welding?

Never

But if I never buy one and practice, I'll never learn.
If the Clarke one welds up to 5mm, wouldn't that suffice?

[caduceus]

Chuffmeister said:

Don't expect to be tigging like Clive F, but WTF, its welding, not rocket science...

This is my school of thought too.
Of course, I will be watching as many tutorials on youtube,etc as possible, before pulling the trigger.

[brett84]

Are there any going second hand at the moment? You be better off getting something larger second hand for the same price i would have though, something like a 180amp upwards

[brett84]

or there is a supmig 150
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Sealey-Supermig-150-Prof...

[portzi]

caduceus said:

Chuffmeister said:

Don't expect to be tigging like Clive F, but WTF, its welding, not rocket science...

This is my school of thought too.
Of course, I will be watching as many tutorials on youtube,etc as possible, before pulling the trigger.

You can cut 50mm x 50mm 5mm thick plates and weld them no problems, but it will be different trying to weld thick plate to a larger chassis assembly as the chassis will absorb the heat given by the torch, and the weld will be cold and lack of fusion, thats why alot of welders pre heat assemblies if they cant get the working temps high enough.

As Chuffmeister has said get practicing, I am sure you must be near a Pher with a mig plant you can have a go on?

[ClassiChimi]

If feel welding is harder than it looks,, without a real good mask you'll be fked,
Yes you can practice etc but a good welder spends years getting that good, bks if I'd weld my own chassis with a hobby welder..
I wouldn't waste my time, I'd get an expert on it,,,, it's the chassis after all and that's why there called experts!
If you want to learn and use the skills elsewhere then it's a good idea but be prepared for major disasters on the way...
I can weld too pieces of similar grade steel perfect,, try doing that on a curve or awkward position, just a second or two to long and holes or splatter,,, I'd not be happy unless my chassis was repaired by an expert who understood the cars and has previous experience of doing such work.
What the cost difference here,,, not a lot,
Done right it'll never be coming apart again so I'd go for someone who can keep my chassis straight and not weakened by overheat etc,, there's a number of things to consider here,, welding how hard can it be,, ?

[brett84]

yea the 150 amp will be ok, to be fair you would probably be fine with a 130, but they are about the same price.
this is helpful http://www.mig-welding.co.uk/forum/

[brett84]

this might help as well http://www.mig-welding.co.uk/buying.htm

but as above welding on a bench when you're learning with clean steel held together perfectly is a whole other ball game to trying to properly clean up a chassis to get decent metal to work with. But I think if you take your time and make sure your getting penetration if the welds are scruffy you can grind them down afterwards. But mobile welders don't seem to charge that much no a days (Dad had some done on an MGB decently) and with it being as important as chassis I might be inclined to let someone experienced do it?

[ClassiChimi]

Sorry Cad, enjoying this thread and my last post sounded sarcastic,, long day maybe!
If your re building your car I'm sure you've got the skills and presence of mind to weld her up,,
It's defo harder than it looks but saying that I think the trick is to get a top class welding machine and get used to using it on different steels etc, you really just need a feel for the machine and what settings work for different applications,, a top class mask is almost as important if you ask me and there not cheap these days.

I applaud you whatever you do mate. Good on you, Alun