T5 Gearbox Linkage
Discussion
Hi guys, has anyone deleted the TVR designed gear linkage system by chaining the tail housing on their Chim/Griff T5 box?
Here's the natural T5 gear stick position with the tail housing we have.
Here's how TVR moved the gearstick forward.
Here's a T5 with the S10 tail housing.
You can buy an S10 tail housing fairly cheaply and it looks like it should bolt straight up to our TVR T5 box placing the gear stick in the right place without the need for the TVR linkage.
Is this what TVR did with the T5 in the Tuscan ect, and would it work on a Chimaera?
The thinking is deleting the TVR linkage and replacing it with the S10 T5 tail housing would improve the feel of the box.
Thoughts
Here's the natural T5 gear stick position with the tail housing we have.
Here's how TVR moved the gearstick forward.
Here's a T5 with the S10 tail housing.
You can buy an S10 tail housing fairly cheaply and it looks like it should bolt straight up to our TVR T5 box placing the gear stick in the right place without the need for the TVR linkage.
Is this what TVR did with the T5 in the Tuscan ect, and would it work on a Chimaera?
The thinking is deleting the TVR linkage and replacing it with the S10 T5 tail housing would improve the feel of the box.
Thoughts
Hi Dave,
Have you seen this:
http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...
May answer your question
Have you seen this:
http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...
May answer your question
sonnylad said:
Hi Dave,
Have you seen this:
http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...
May answer your question
Not seen that Russ, thanks for the link mate, looks like the S10 rear housing to me.Have you seen this:
http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...
May answer your question
This comment is revealing:
"Fitting the later style T5 with the lever further forward is one of the best mods I did"
Seems I may be thinking the same way as others.
ChimpOnGas said:
Hi guys, has anyone deleted the TVR designed gear linkage system by chaining the tail housing on their Chim/Griff T5 box?
I can confirm the T5 rear housings are interchangeable and John Reid swapped mine over. However, I'm sure you've realised installing the later T5 instead of the Griff/Chimmy T5 isn't straightforward as you'll have to fabricate a new gearbox support bracket and gear level adapter.
J400GED said:
peaktorque said:
If it ain't broke, then why fix it?
^^^^ What he said.The linkage used by TVR in their first T5 equipped cars (Chim & Griffs) was soon deleted by TVR themselves when later models appeared with the same box.
Question: So why didn't TVR just carry on with their Chim/Griff linkage in these later models?
Answer: Because the setup is not as good as what Borg Warner offered with their properly engineered S10 tail housing
All I'm saying is if you try a Tuscan, Tamora, T350 or Sagaris T5 box you'll immediately notice the shift feel is infinitely better than on a Chim or Griff. The box itself is of course exactly the same, the difference in feel comes exclusively from the S10 tail housing which is clearly a much much better way to move the gear stick position forward than TVR's effort.
From this...
(A bit Heath Robinson)
To this:
(Much better, offering improved feel when engaging gears = more driving pleasure)
If we all sat by and said "if it ain't broke, why fix it"... we would all still be running carburetors and contact breaker points.
Even TVR who themselves designed the Chim & Griff T5 linkage knew this, which is why when the opportunity presented itself... they deleted it in favor of the significantly better S10 tail housing.
It's called development chaps, and development doesn't stop because you need to fabricate a simple bracket!
ChimpOnGas said:
I think you need to leave your caves boys, the point is it isn't broke, but it certainly could be better!
The linkage used by TVR in their first T5 equipped cars (Chim & Griffs) was soon deleted by TVR themselves when later models appeared with the same box.
Question: So why didn't TVR just carry on with their Chim/Griff linkage in these later models?
Answer: Because the setup is not as good as what Borg Warner offered with their properly engineered S10 tail housing
All I'm saying is if you try a Tuscan, Tamora, T350 or Sagaris T5 box you'll immediately notice the shift feel is infinitely better than on a Chim or Griff. The box itself is of course exactly the same, the difference in feel comes exclusively from the S10 tail housing which is clearly a much much better way to move the gear stick position forward than TVR's effort.
From this...
(A bit Heath Robinson)
To this:
(Much better, offering improved feel when engaging gears = more driving pleasure)
If we all sat by and said "if it ain't broke, why fix it"... we would all still be running carburetors and contact breaker points.
Even TVR who themselves designed the Chim & Griff T5 linkage knew this, which is why when the opportunity presented itself... they deleted it in favor of the significantly better S10 tail housing.
It's called development chaps, and development doesn't stop because you need to fabricate a simple bracket!
I appreciate what you are saying Dave. In your opinion then, it is broken in respect of being able to get better feel to the gearchange by using the S10 tail housing.The linkage used by TVR in their first T5 equipped cars (Chim & Griffs) was soon deleted by TVR themselves when later models appeared with the same box.
Question: So why didn't TVR just carry on with their Chim/Griff linkage in these later models?
Answer: Because the setup is not as good as what Borg Warner offered with their properly engineered S10 tail housing
All I'm saying is if you try a Tuscan, Tamora, T350 or Sagaris T5 box you'll immediately notice the shift feel is infinitely better than on a Chim or Griff. The box itself is of course exactly the same, the difference in feel comes exclusively from the S10 tail housing which is clearly a much much better way to move the gear stick position forward than TVR's effort.
From this...
(A bit Heath Robinson)
To this:
(Much better, offering improved feel when engaging gears = more driving pleasure)
If we all sat by and said "if it ain't broke, why fix it"... we would all still be running carburetors and contact breaker points.
Even TVR who themselves designed the Chim & Griff T5 linkage knew this, which is why when the opportunity presented itself... they deleted it in favor of the significantly better S10 tail housing.
It's called development chaps, and development doesn't stop because you need to fabricate a simple bracket!
"It's called development chaps, and development doesn't stop because you need to fabricate a simple bracket!" I am well aware of this point.
I am also very well aware that development does stop when the financial outlay outweighs the perceived benefits of said development.
It's not a case of sitting in one's cave, it's a case of perceived benefits versus investment.
In your opinion it is worth it, I am not saying whether you should or shouldn't do it, just don't put people down because they question your suggestions.
J400GED said:
I appreciate what you are saying Dave. In your opinion then, it is broken in respect of being able to get better feel to the gearchange by using the S10 tail housing.
"It's called development chaps, and development doesn't stop because you need to fabricate a simple bracket!" I am well aware of this point.
I am also very well aware that development does stop when the financial outlay outweighs the perceived benefits of said development.
It's not a case of sitting in one's cave, it's a case of perceived benefits versus investment.
In your opinion it is worth it, I am not saying whether you should or shouldn't do it, just don't put people down because they question your suggestions.
I get the whole cost vs benefit equation, but that has to be viewed on a personal level, and personally I certainly wouldn't do it on a whim but if the box needs to come out for say a clutch job surely it's an idea worth exploring?"It's called development chaps, and development doesn't stop because you need to fabricate a simple bracket!" I am well aware of this point.
I am also very well aware that development does stop when the financial outlay outweighs the perceived benefits of said development.
It's not a case of sitting in one's cave, it's a case of perceived benefits versus investment.
In your opinion it is worth it, I am not saying whether you should or shouldn't do it, just don't put people down because they question your suggestions.
db484bhpv8 said:
Talk to John Reid at Readman racing 
He offers this as an upgrade.
Only problem is you need to make up a new mounting.
If John Reid at Readman racing is already offering this there must be some merit in it.He offers this as an upgrade.
Only problem is you need to make up a new mounting.
From what I've seen on EBay a used but serviceable S10 tail housing for the T5 can be had for around £120, if John Reid is already offering the mod I suspect he'll also make you up a bracket to a pastern he keeps.
The tail housing will bolt right up, and an adapter bracket is an adapter bracket, so it doesn't seem beyond the realm of possibility to do the whole thing for £200?
Personally I'd say that's not much to add if the box is coming out anyway, especially when we know the rewards are going to be a much nicer shift.
I always think it's the little details like brake pedal feel, gear shift quality, steering feel ect that make the car.
John actually fitted this tail to my gearbox when i had it rebuilt. Problem was i needed to fit it that day to go racing the day after. He didnt have a pattern for a mount and i didnt have the time to make my own so he swapped my old tail back.
Also he said something about not being able to get replacement rear seals for the old type tail anymore.
Also he said something about not being able to get replacement rear seals for the old type tail anymore.
ChimpOnGas said:
If John Reid at Readman racing is already offering this there must be some merit in it.
From what I've seen on EBay a used but serviceable S10 tail housing for the T5 can be had for around £120, if John Reid is already offering the mod I suspect he'll also make you up a bracket to a pastern he keeps.
The tail housing will bolt right up, and an adapter bracket is an adapter bracket, so it doesn't seem beyond the realm of possibility to do the whole thing for £200?
Personally I'd say that's not much to add if the box is coming out anyway, especially when we know the rewards are going to be a much nicer shift.
I always think it's the little details like brake pedal feel, gear shift quality, steering feel ect that make the car.
I couldn't agree more with you Dave - if you have £200.From what I've seen on EBay a used but serviceable S10 tail housing for the T5 can be had for around £120, if John Reid is already offering the mod I suspect he'll also make you up a bracket to a pastern he keeps.
The tail housing will bolt right up, and an adapter bracket is an adapter bracket, so it doesn't seem beyond the realm of possibility to do the whole thing for £200?
Personally I'd say that's not much to add if the box is coming out anyway, especially when we know the rewards are going to be a much nicer shift.
I always think it's the little details like brake pedal feel, gear shift quality, steering feel ect that make the car.
Anyway, moving on, would the gear lever now come out centrally on the tunnel with this mod and, if so, how close would that put it to the handbrake?
db484bhpv8 said:
J400GED said:
I couldn't agree more with you Dave - if you have £200.
Anyway, moving on, would the gear lever now come out centrally on the tunnel with this mod and, if so, how close would that put it to the handbrake?
IIRC the gear lever needs a doglegAnyway, moving on, would the gear lever now come out centrally on the tunnel with this mod and, if so, how close would that put it to the handbrake?
What we need is kit; tail housing, bracket & dog leg gear stick adapter.
Or buy a box out of a Tuscan
ChimpOnGas said:
If John Reid at Readman racing is already offering this there must be some merit in it.
From what I've seen on EBay a used but serviceable S10 tail housing for the T5 can be had for around £120, if John Reid is already offering the mod I suspect he'll also make you up a bracket to a pastern he keeps.
My S10 housing cost me NOTHING !!! as I bought a later T5 off ebay for £411 then got John Reid to swap the rear housings over while I was on route to the trimmers at Bristol Avenue. I then sold the later T5 but with the Griffith rear housing for a profit!!!! From what I've seen on EBay a used but serviceable S10 tail housing for the T5 can be had for around £120, if John Reid is already offering the mod I suspect he'll also make you up a bracket to a pastern he keeps.
John was very welcoming and interesting to talk to while he was busy swapping over mine and he seemed very grateful I bothered to clean up and drain both boxes and carry them in for him.
Does John Reid actually have a kit?? He certainly has more than enough parts kicking around to supply and fit the later rear housing for you and you never know he might even give you something for your Griff rear housing.
J400GED said:
So, in theory, you could cut off the off-set portion of the current gear lever and weld it to the lever in the S10 tail housing.
That’s exact what I did when I installed the T5 into my Precat as seen in the last picture of the first post in this thread. http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...I chopped and welded the Griff, sorry chimmy lever (I keep forgetting I'm a visitor) to an adapter block I had machined. I can explain further but my approach was a little over engineered and not as elegant as g8ape blue lever adapter. Its worth keeping the rubber bush as it stops the heat travelling up the gear level.
You can also see in the second to last picture my support bracket that I fabricated which isn’t very complicated, in fact its easy to make in situ especially as you should recognise the middle section. For a further description have a read half way down this page, http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...
I'll now crawl back to the Griff cave with my 14CUX and electric powered assisted steering so if you have any questions please do not hesitate to come and find me.
Best Wishes, Steve Sprint
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