T5 Gearbox Linkage
Discussion
Picked mine up with this mod on Friday. I went for the following recipe:
The change is not exactly what I was expecting, having owned an S2000 in the past with in a sublime gear change I have been spoilt in the past. My expectations where:
What is has done however is it is much easier to get into gear and the feel of the gear change does feel more positive. Certain gears which maybe needed a little bit more force than others to select are now very easy to get into. Strangely enough I can also now more often than not get straight into reverse with our having to go up to 5th, then down into reverse. It definitely is an improvement but just not in the areas I had in mind.
Would I recommend it? At this stage it is difficult to tell having done so few miles and most of those on the Motorway. As I said before it is definitely an improvement over standard, I would probably say it is worth doing if you are in working in that area anyway (mine needed a new clutch and rear main oil seal), I am not sure I would take the box out specifically to do this mod though. I think comparing it against the S2000 box whatever you do to the T5 it will never come close.
- S10 Tailhousing from Readman Racing complete with bronze shift cup and bronze selectors
- Core Shifters supplied Hurst quick shift
The change is not exactly what I was expecting, having owned an S2000 in the past with in a sublime gear change I have been spoilt in the past. My expectations where:
- A decrease in the distance between gears as per most quick shifters.
- The selector to spring back to centre more aggressively
- The nice snackety snack feeling between gears
What is has done however is it is much easier to get into gear and the feel of the gear change does feel more positive. Certain gears which maybe needed a little bit more force than others to select are now very easy to get into. Strangely enough I can also now more often than not get straight into reverse with our having to go up to 5th, then down into reverse. It definitely is an improvement but just not in the areas I had in mind.
Would I recommend it? At this stage it is difficult to tell having done so few miles and most of those on the Motorway. As I said before it is definitely an improvement over standard, I would probably say it is worth doing if you are in working in that area anyway (mine needed a new clutch and rear main oil seal), I am not sure I would take the box out specifically to do this mod though. I think comparing it against the S2000 box whatever you do to the T5 it will never come close.
Mines all done too, but not had a chance to try it as I'm out of the country for the next few weeks.
Interestingly Danny at Lloyd Specialist Developments said all the same things as Mathew, including the element where reverse is far easier to engage without the need to select 5th first as we all tend do automatically.
I'll be collecting the car early Jan so I'll give you my honest review then, for now though we have Mathews review and the fact Danny at Lloyd's said exactly the same as he has.
I needed to ditch my overly heavy Helix clutch which is now gone in favour of something far far lighter, I also needed to eliminate the dragging issue I had when the Helix got heat soaked making gear selection really baulky. No news on the dragging element yet but my bet is it was Helix clutch related so I'm confident it's an issue I'll suffer no more.
All in all the lighter non dragging clutch plus the improvements Mathew & Danny have both reported should make 'Ol Gasbag' even nicer to drive.
I'll update everyone with my own comprehensive review of all the little improvements when I'm back in the UK in January.
Merry Christmas to all my TVR friends, Dave.
Interestingly Danny at Lloyd Specialist Developments said all the same things as Mathew, including the element where reverse is far easier to engage without the need to select 5th first as we all tend do automatically.
I'll be collecting the car early Jan so I'll give you my honest review then, for now though we have Mathews review and the fact Danny at Lloyd's said exactly the same as he has.
I needed to ditch my overly heavy Helix clutch which is now gone in favour of something far far lighter, I also needed to eliminate the dragging issue I had when the Helix got heat soaked making gear selection really baulky. No news on the dragging element yet but my bet is it was Helix clutch related so I'm confident it's an issue I'll suffer no more.
All in all the lighter non dragging clutch plus the improvements Mathew & Danny have both reported should make 'Ol Gasbag' even nicer to drive.
I'll update everyone with my own comprehensive review of all the little improvements when I'm back in the UK in January.
Merry Christmas to all my TVR friends, Dave.
Happy New Year to all my TVR friends and S-10 tail housing followers 
Today I picked up 'Ol Gasbag' with her new custom steel lightweight flywheel, lighter clutch, SC-Power engine mounts, Chevrolet S-10 pickup tail housing and a host of other little gearbox mods already covered extensively earlier in this post.
So how did it all pan out?
Well the first thing I have to say is it absolutely pished it down during the whole 100 miles home from Lloyd Specialist Developments, so it was neither a long test nor one that took place in ideal conditions.
But here's an early review anyway...
THE FLYWHEEL
As a reminder... a few years ago I went from the stupidly heavy standard 32lbs original flywheel to the way way better 25lbs machined down cast original from V8 Developments. And now rather than going for the 15lb off the shelf lightened steel one I played it safe and had TTV machine me a custom one at 19lbs. Early indications are it certainly doesn't have any negative impacts on low speed drivability but I'll need a dry day before I see if the engine spins up better.
THE CLUTCH
Massively improved, massively lighter and with a far superior more progressive bite point. Basically compared with the Helix it's like night and day, I do need to make a small adjustment to the pedal height but only because I'd originally adjusted it higher in a futile bid to improve the feel of the Helix that had a bite point on the floor.
THE GEARBOX
The first thing you notice on my S-10 conversion from Lloyd Specialist Developments is the gear stick sits closer to and slightly angled towards the driver, to be fair Danny warned me of this and while Nathan said it felt better Danny wasn't so sure. As already stated I've only done 100 miles in the heavy rain so I'll reserve judgement on this new gear stick position until I've driven the car a bit more, I've been promised it will be changed FOC if I don't like it.
The next thing you notice is the self centering spring effect is much stronger, this is a product of the custom Hurst quick shifter and that extra centering effect means two things.
1. The shift is actually a little heavier, personally I'd describe it as meatier
2. Shifting up the box from 2nd to 3rd is now significantly improved, you literally just push forward as hard & fast as you like and the spring force naturally brings the lever to the centre of the gate. This extra centering effect definitely makes the 2nd to 3rd cog swap a much much faster and more direct action. Second to third miss-shifts (we've all done it when accelerating hard) are now a thing of the past.
Overall engagement of all forward gears is definitely better by a noticeable margin with each gear slotting in with a more positive, direct and mechanical feel. The extra self centering effect provided by the Hurst quick shifter certainly helps here but its the deletion of the TVR linkage and bell housing mounted rose joint that seems to have improved selection of gears located at the extreme four corners of the gate.. IE 1st, 2nd, 5th & Reverse.
SELECTING REVERSE
Strangely enough reverse is actually worthy of special note, as we all know to get a crunch free selection of reverse gear in a T5 equipped Chimaera it's highly advisable to select 5th first. It seems this is now completely unnecessary, obviously it's still wise to make sure the car is fully stopped before engaging reverse but once stationary reverse can be selected just as easily as any other gear.
EARLY FINDINGS IN SUMMARY
As I've said a number of times now, one 100 mile drive mostly in 5th gear and in torrential rain is not really any kind of test at all, but I wanted to give everyone my early feedback. Overall while my far lighter clutch dominates there are also clearly a number of very noticeable benefits that come from deleting the TVR gear linkage system just as I'd hoped for when I started this post many months ago.
My early and very limited experiences in far from ideal driving conditions seem to suggest it's been a very worthwhile modification, but to be fair to anyone considering the S-10 tail housing idea I'll be putting some more miles on it before I give you all my final comprehensive review.
Best regards, Dave....
Today I picked up 'Ol Gasbag' with her new custom steel lightweight flywheel, lighter clutch, SC-Power engine mounts, Chevrolet S-10 pickup tail housing and a host of other little gearbox mods already covered extensively earlier in this post.
So how did it all pan out?
Well the first thing I have to say is it absolutely pished it down during the whole 100 miles home from Lloyd Specialist Developments, so it was neither a long test nor one that took place in ideal conditions.
But here's an early review anyway...
THE FLYWHEEL
As a reminder... a few years ago I went from the stupidly heavy standard 32lbs original flywheel to the way way better 25lbs machined down cast original from V8 Developments. And now rather than going for the 15lb off the shelf lightened steel one I played it safe and had TTV machine me a custom one at 19lbs. Early indications are it certainly doesn't have any negative impacts on low speed drivability but I'll need a dry day before I see if the engine spins up better.
THE CLUTCH
Massively improved, massively lighter and with a far superior more progressive bite point. Basically compared with the Helix it's like night and day, I do need to make a small adjustment to the pedal height but only because I'd originally adjusted it higher in a futile bid to improve the feel of the Helix that had a bite point on the floor.
THE GEARBOX
The first thing you notice on my S-10 conversion from Lloyd Specialist Developments is the gear stick sits closer to and slightly angled towards the driver, to be fair Danny warned me of this and while Nathan said it felt better Danny wasn't so sure. As already stated I've only done 100 miles in the heavy rain so I'll reserve judgement on this new gear stick position until I've driven the car a bit more, I've been promised it will be changed FOC if I don't like it.
The next thing you notice is the self centering spring effect is much stronger, this is a product of the custom Hurst quick shifter and that extra centering effect means two things.
1. The shift is actually a little heavier, personally I'd describe it as meatier
2. Shifting up the box from 2nd to 3rd is now significantly improved, you literally just push forward as hard & fast as you like and the spring force naturally brings the lever to the centre of the gate. This extra centering effect definitely makes the 2nd to 3rd cog swap a much much faster and more direct action. Second to third miss-shifts (we've all done it when accelerating hard) are now a thing of the past.
Overall engagement of all forward gears is definitely better by a noticeable margin with each gear slotting in with a more positive, direct and mechanical feel. The extra self centering effect provided by the Hurst quick shifter certainly helps here but its the deletion of the TVR linkage and bell housing mounted rose joint that seems to have improved selection of gears located at the extreme four corners of the gate.. IE 1st, 2nd, 5th & Reverse.
SELECTING REVERSE
Strangely enough reverse is actually worthy of special note, as we all know to get a crunch free selection of reverse gear in a T5 equipped Chimaera it's highly advisable to select 5th first. It seems this is now completely unnecessary, obviously it's still wise to make sure the car is fully stopped before engaging reverse but once stationary reverse can be selected just as easily as any other gear.
EARLY FINDINGS IN SUMMARY
As I've said a number of times now, one 100 mile drive mostly in 5th gear and in torrential rain is not really any kind of test at all, but I wanted to give everyone my early feedback. Overall while my far lighter clutch dominates there are also clearly a number of very noticeable benefits that come from deleting the TVR gear linkage system just as I'd hoped for when I started this post many months ago.
My early and very limited experiences in far from ideal driving conditions seem to suggest it's been a very worthwhile modification, but to be fair to anyone considering the S-10 tail housing idea I'll be putting some more miles on it before I give you all my final comprehensive review.
Best regards, Dave....
Edited by ChimpOnGas on Saturday 2nd January 18:44
MPoxon said:
The change is not exactly what I was expecting, having owned an S2000 in the past with in a sublime gear change I have been spoilt in the past.
My expectations where:
This is really odd Mathew, mine seems to have delivered on all three of your above bullet pointed expectations My expectations where:
- A decrease in the distance between gears as per most quick shifters.
- The selector to spring back to centre more aggressively
- The nice snackety snack feeling between gears
My gear stick ended up canted very slightly towards and a bit closer to the drivers side of the transmission tunnel, while David Batty managed to get your stick vertical and exiting in exactly the same spot as before.
However my gear knob sits at exactly the same height as the original but I believe yours ended up higher, perhaps that has something to do with it
Its not by much but I definitely have a slightly shorter shift, I also have a gear stick that springs to centre a lot more strongly, finally the nice snackety snack feeling you talk about is there on mine its just you've got to overcome that spring force to really feel it.
I never wanted a super light gear shift... I believe a TVR needs solid, direct and meaty controls because that for me is the very essence of the car's character.
The problem is things like the feel of a cars controls are very subjective, one man's heavy box is another man's meaty delight
While I don't want to make this sound like I'm trying to organise a knob feeling rendezvous, perhaps we should meet up in the real world to compare the action of both our setups
Best regards, Dave
Edited by ChimpOnGas on Saturday 2nd January 19:39
Hello Dave,
Interesting to read through your review, I think you like myself have not had a good chance to test it our properly yet due to the weather.
I think I am being hampered by mine being too high as I have actually started missing shifts between 2nd and 3rd now when I never used to before, I think this is exaggerated in mine as I also sit much lower in the car with the non standard seats. We both have pretty much the same setup now and reading what you have said I think once I get mine shortened a bit it should deliver what I am expecting. As per my previous post mine is certainly improved but clearly I am not used to handling long shafts, far more used to short ones.
I have mine booked in with Dave the Trimmer in Feb, then it will be going to David Batty for annual service so I will get it adjusted then.
If it is still not right then a knob feeling rendezvous might be a good shout, i'll let you feel mine if I can feel yours
Interesting to read through your review, I think you like myself have not had a good chance to test it our properly yet due to the weather.
I think I am being hampered by mine being too high as I have actually started missing shifts between 2nd and 3rd now when I never used to before, I think this is exaggerated in mine as I also sit much lower in the car with the non standard seats. We both have pretty much the same setup now and reading what you have said I think once I get mine shortened a bit it should deliver what I am expecting. As per my previous post mine is certainly improved but clearly I am not used to handling long shafts, far more used to short ones.
I have mine booked in with Dave the Trimmer in Feb, then it will be going to David Batty for annual service so I will get it adjusted then.
If it is still not right then a knob feeling rendezvous might be a good shout, i'll let you feel mine if I can feel yours
Agreed
Just keep in mind in theory your shorter lever should do two things.
1. Give you the impression of a shorter throw
2. Make your shift feel slightly heavier as you're reducing the leverage
Both may be exactly what your looking for?
Levers are the same as gears IE you don't get something for nothing, but we both have the same recipe so in theory the result should be the same.
Gear stick length aside the more influential variable may indeed be more to do with what we are both expecting from all this, and the differences in what we individually like and dislike in gearbox feel.
Like you say neither of us have put many miles on the mod and don't forget there's always a period of aclimitisation, I actually have a final addition up my sleeve that I'll be sharing with everyone in due course assuming it works as predicted.
It's a simple thing which on the face of it may not seem like it'll do much, however based on past experience this little part may just prove to be the icing on the cake
But only if you like the same cake as me
Just keep in mind in theory your shorter lever should do two things.
1. Give you the impression of a shorter throw
2. Make your shift feel slightly heavier as you're reducing the leverage
Both may be exactly what your looking for?
Levers are the same as gears IE you don't get something for nothing, but we both have the same recipe so in theory the result should be the same.
Gear stick length aside the more influential variable may indeed be more to do with what we are both expecting from all this, and the differences in what we individually like and dislike in gearbox feel.
Like you say neither of us have put many miles on the mod and don't forget there's always a period of aclimitisation, I actually have a final addition up my sleeve that I'll be sharing with everyone in due course assuming it works as predicted.
It's a simple thing which on the face of it may not seem like it'll do much, however based on past experience this little part may just prove to be the icing on the cake
But only if you like the same cake as me
Took mine for a quick drive today and I think I have indentified one issue which is a bit strange.... The gear lever springs back very nicely from the right side (5th and reverse) but no so much from the left side (1st and 2nd). I need to have a proper look and make sure it is not catching on something, or ,might just be a symptom of the longer throw.
The way it is centring from the right side of the gate is defnetly improved over standard.
The way it is centring from the right side of the gate is defnetly improved over standard.
ChimpOnGas said:
Agreed
Just keep in mind in theory your shorter lever should do two things.
1. Give you the impression of a shorter throw
2. Make your shift feel slightly heavier as you're reducing the leverage
Both may be exactly what your looking for?
Levers are the same as gears IE you don't get something for nothing, but we both have the same recipe so in theory the result should be the same.
Gear stick length aside the more influential variable may indeed be more to do with what we are both expecting from all this, and the differences in what we individually like and dislike in gearbox feel.
Like you say neither of us have put many miles on the mod and don't forget there's always a period of aclimitisation, I actually have a final addition up my sleeve that I'll be sharing with everyone in due course assuming it works as predicted.
It's a simple thing which on the face of it may not seem like it'll do much, however based on past experience this little part may just prove to be the icing on the cake
But only if you like the same cake as me
Mmmmmm ... cake! Just keep in mind in theory your shorter lever should do two things.
1. Give you the impression of a shorter throw
2. Make your shift feel slightly heavier as you're reducing the leverage
Both may be exactly what your looking for?
Levers are the same as gears IE you don't get something for nothing, but we both have the same recipe so in theory the result should be the same.
Gear stick length aside the more influential variable may indeed be more to do with what we are both expecting from all this, and the differences in what we individually like and dislike in gearbox feel.
Like you say neither of us have put many miles on the mod and don't forget there's always a period of aclimitisation, I actually have a final addition up my sleeve that I'll be sharing with everyone in due course assuming it works as predicted.
It's a simple thing which on the face of it may not seem like it'll do much, however based on past experience this little part may just prove to be the icing on the cake
But only if you like the same cake as me
MPoxon said:
The gear lever springs back very nicely from the right side (5th and reverse) but no so much from the left side (1st and 2nd)
Thats by design, but I'm not sure why. In the picture is the shifter plate that lives below the gear stick and there is a sprung loaded ball bearing that runs in the top track where I've labelled the gears. You can see the track where its in neutral is deeper between 1,2,3 & 4 and shallower between 5th and reverse. There is a small ramp from the deeper section which is what you can feel when you move the gear stick from the centre to the right.
BoostedChim said:
Thats by design, but I'm not sure why. In the picture is the shifter plate that lives below the gear stick and there is a sprung loaded ball bearing that runs in the top track where I've labelled the gears. You can see the track where its in neutral is deeper between 1,2,3 & 4 and shallower between 5th and reverse. There is a small ramp from the deeper section which is what you can feel when you move the gear stick from the centre to the right.
Thank you for that insight, much appreciated. I was a bit worried the box might have to come out again to resolve as it took the gaiter off and still no joy. That is a real shame it does not have the same from left to centre as it does right to centre, good news is that it is not broken.Thanks for the digram as well, I would have never understood it otherwise
MPoxon said:
Thank you for that insight, much appreciated. I was a bit worried the box might have to come out again to resolve as it took the gaiter off and still no joy. That is a real shame it does not have the same from left to centre as it does right to centre, good news is that it is not broken.
Thanks for the digram as well, I would have never understood it otherwise
Your welcome. It's always been like that, it must just be the weight and friction of the old linkage masks it.Thanks for the digram as well, I would have never understood it otherwise
The cherry on the cake.
Machined in the USA from a solid block of stainless steel by the king of gear knobs and to my exact specification this is one weighty lump of metal.
The special Hurst quick shift kit has provided a much stronger self centering effect which is just as I wanted. Unsurprisingly a seconday consequence of this stronger return spring is that overall the shift feel (while being far more direct and precise) is slightly heavier.
Weighing in at over 1lb my new stainless steel gear knob is almost three times heavier than the TVR aluminium original. The theory is a significantly heavier gear knob offers enhanced momentum further smoothing out my already vastly improved gear shift.
This is ideal as it should counter the slightly heavier shift from the Hurst quick shift kit but still retain its stronger and very welcome celf centering effect.
I'll let you all know how my new heavy weight gear knob alters the shift feel soon.
Dave.
Machined in the USA from a solid block of stainless steel by the king of gear knobs and to my exact specification this is one weighty lump of metal.
The special Hurst quick shift kit has provided a much stronger self centering effect which is just as I wanted. Unsurprisingly a seconday consequence of this stronger return spring is that overall the shift feel (while being far more direct and precise) is slightly heavier.
Weighing in at over 1lb my new stainless steel gear knob is almost three times heavier than the TVR aluminium original. The theory is a significantly heavier gear knob offers enhanced momentum further smoothing out my already vastly improved gear shift.
This is ideal as it should counter the slightly heavier shift from the Hurst quick shift kit but still retain its stronger and very welcome celf centering effect.
I'll let you all know how my new heavy weight gear knob alters the shift feel soon.
Dave.
Hoofa said:
I look forward to reading about how your new heavy knob has Improved the feel, who made the improved knob ?
My new heavyweight knob was turned on a lath by Knobby Knobjocky from Knobsvillle Tennessee.Seriously and all knob jokes aside I've played this trick before on other cars and its surprising how much difference a heavier gear knob can make.
Let's see how it pans out on my TVR.
ChimpOnGas said:
My new heavyweight knob was turned on a lath by Knobby Knobjocky from Knobsvillle Tennessee.
Seriously and all knob jokes aside I've played this trick before on other cars and its surprising how much difference a heavier gear knob can make.
Let's see how it pans out on my TVR.
Seriously and all knob jokes aside I've played this trick before on other cars and its surprising how much difference a heavier gear knob can make.
Let's see how it pans out on my TVR.
What does the top of the knob look like? MPoxon said:
What were your thoughts on the heavier knob in the end?
I like it, it's a larger diameter than the TVR one, this and the fact it's machined from solid stainless makes it a good three times heavier.It feels more ergonomic in the hand and the far greater weight certainly aids the throw from gear to gear. The knob comes with a simple way to adjust the height by virtue of an internal alen grub screw, I tried a few heights but quickly settled on as low as it would go which I believe puts it is a little lower than the original position.
With a host of other gearbox modifications I now have a nice slick, fast and precise shift with a slightly shorter throw than TVR gave us. The gear lever does sit slightly angled to the right of the vertical but in practice this took about 30 seconds to get use to, I honestly haven't given it a second thought since.
The only thing I'd change is the gear lever gaiter which is the original TVR leatherette affair and after almost 20 years its unsurprisingly getting a bit tatty now. With the lower stick position and the collar on my knew gear knob the rather inflexible leatherette gaiter is also somewhat bunched up now.
I plan to have a new gaiter made up from a nice supple piece of real leather, I then hope to finish it off with a Leven gear surround as show below.... assuming they still make them that is?
The funny thing is now I'm looking at that last picture it seems that gear stick is also sitting slightly angled to the right of vertical very much in the way mine does now?
Perhaps position wise what I've ended up with isn't as far off the original as I thought, what is different is the much improved way the box slices through the gears.
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