T5 Gearbox Linkage
Discussion
Thanks Dave. I have ordered a std bracket and some plate and will literaly have a bash. Failing that it might be a call to lloyds. Was thinking of a Canems ecu anyway!
Yes have gone with the brass shifter cup, but drew the line at the Paul Cangialosi retaining plate upgrade. As you say where do you stop and very easy to get carried away but i've always been a sucker for a good bit of design and engineering.
Yes have gone with the brass shifter cup, but drew the line at the Paul Cangialosi retaining plate upgrade. As you say where do you stop and very easy to get carried away but i've always been a sucker for a good bit of design and engineering.
This might help. There is a good picture showing the plastic bush into which the ball at the end of the shifter locates. I understand the brass upgrade provides a more positive gear change whether a standard or short shifter is used and will last longer.
http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/threads/t5-tail...
http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/threads/t5-tail...
APM make the bronze cup which I ordered from a Mustang specialist last week, from what I've read elsewhere it is well worth fitting, it's a tiny part but seeming the improvement it gives far outweighs its size.
The T5 bronze fork pads are of interest, APM are the source again so I'm looking into getting the pads direct from them this time.
Actually APM offer a host of new manufactured T5 components with a focus on upgrading know areas that could be improved upon. APM offer all new complete T5 fork assemblys at reasonable cost and with the bronze pads already fitted, so maybe that's the way forward?
Cheaper would be to just buy the pads and fit them to my existing forks, you can buy them here...
http://www.thegearbox.org/catalog/item/3819132/513...
But I bet this supplier's pads originate from APM too so I'll keep you all posted when they've responded to my email.
With my overall objective of this project being to make my T5 shift as slickly as absolutely possible it seems to make sense to do all these little mods when my box is on the bench.
Once it's back in the car there's no fitting uprated bronze shifter pads and the like that's for sure.
It's now or never as they say, so I may as well give it the works
The T5 bronze fork pads are of interest, APM are the source again so I'm looking into getting the pads direct from them this time.
Actually APM offer a host of new manufactured T5 components with a focus on upgrading know areas that could be improved upon. APM offer all new complete T5 fork assemblys at reasonable cost and with the bronze pads already fitted, so maybe that's the way forward?
Cheaper would be to just buy the pads and fit them to my existing forks, you can buy them here...
http://www.thegearbox.org/catalog/item/3819132/513...
But I bet this supplier's pads originate from APM too so I'll keep you all posted when they've responded to my email.
With my overall objective of this project being to make my T5 shift as slickly as absolutely possible it seems to make sense to do all these little mods when my box is on the bench.
Once it's back in the car there's no fitting uprated bronze shifter pads and the like that's for sure.
It's now or never as they say, so I may as well give it the works
Update!
Thanks to Tim (Badgerchim) for stimulating me to research the benefits of bronze shifter fork pads and the potential suppliers, there certainly seems to be worthwhile benefits in replacing the standard wear prone nylon pads.
APM have offered me a full set of their bronze fork pads for £43 including postage to the UK sent by UPS first class mail.
Apparently there are two types of these bronze pads on the market, the softer cast type and the harder and longer lasting billet type made by APM.
APM appear to make a host of modified/improved T5 components but mostly sell to the trade for resale, from my research buying direct from APM for £43 all in is the way to go.
It is another £43 spend but seems like a no-brainer to fit these pads as the forks need to be removed anyway to fit the shorter S-10 shift rod. Like the shifter cup these nylon items are known to wear, and even if my current wear is minimal apparently there are immediate shift quality benefits to be enjoyed from going to bonze in both cases.
So I now have the following upgrades to be fitted in pursuit of the perfect shifting T5:
1. The S-10 tail housing itself, putting the gear stick in the right spot while allowing me to delete the TVR linkage
2. The tool quality bronze shifter cup that apparently delivers a more direct shift feel
3. The proper billet bronze fork shifter pads that last longer and also give a better shift feel
4. The S-10 Hurst quick shift kit custom made for me by Core Shifters to my 6" stick length which which gives a shorter and faster throw plus an increased self centring spring effect which should all come together nicely to deliver that lovely snickety snick gear engagement we all like so much
On top of that lot I've got my custom 19lb chrome moly steel flywheel and a Lloyd Specialist Developments lighter clutch going in. To finish the job off I'll be having some SC-Power engine mounts fitted as my 19 year old originals are clearly due for replacement.
It's quite a bit of spending on a whole bunch of stuff no one will ever see and they certainly aren't the normal exciting modifications you read about on these pages, but I'm convinced I'm putting my little year end TVR modifying budget towards the right things.
I'm confident getting shot of my heavy Helix clutch, making the gear shift smother and more direct while taking a further 6lbs out of the flywheel weight will all combine to deliver the best improvement to my TVR driving pleasure for my money.
I started this post because I could see the benefits in deleting the TVR linkage, I was shot down fairly early on by some who said "why fix something that isn't broken?"
The truth is it isn't broken, but it sure as hell could be significantly better!
TVR knew all this very well themselves which is why if you bought a later Tuscan/T350/Tamora or Sagaris you got a gearbox that puts the stick right where it should be without the need for an over complicated "down one end and back up the front" linkage with all it's play prone joints.
I'm pleased that others understood what I was trying to achieve her and could see the potential benefits. Is nice to see others have pursued the idea and that they are already confirming the S-10 tail housing idea is indeed delivering real benefits in shift quality an feel
Conclusive proof to those who said "why fix something that isn't broken" that things don't have to start of broken to be massively improved
Modifying these cars isn't always about simply adding horsepower, for me it's about taking an intelligent and holistic approach to the art of enhancing driving pleasure. The controls in a driver's car are what connect you to the machine, anything you can do to improve the tactile pleasure and feedback coming from those controls is going to massively enhance your driving pleasure.
I love driving my TVR because it delivers that raw connection with the machine you simple don't get from a modern car, anything that enhances these unique character traits can only serve to directly enhanced my TVR driving pleasure
Thanks to Tim (Badgerchim) for stimulating me to research the benefits of bronze shifter fork pads and the potential suppliers, there certainly seems to be worthwhile benefits in replacing the standard wear prone nylon pads.
APM have offered me a full set of their bronze fork pads for £43 including postage to the UK sent by UPS first class mail.
Apparently there are two types of these bronze pads on the market, the softer cast type and the harder and longer lasting billet type made by APM.
APM appear to make a host of modified/improved T5 components but mostly sell to the trade for resale, from my research buying direct from APM for £43 all in is the way to go.
It is another £43 spend but seems like a no-brainer to fit these pads as the forks need to be removed anyway to fit the shorter S-10 shift rod. Like the shifter cup these nylon items are known to wear, and even if my current wear is minimal apparently there are immediate shift quality benefits to be enjoyed from going to bonze in both cases.
So I now have the following upgrades to be fitted in pursuit of the perfect shifting T5:
1. The S-10 tail housing itself, putting the gear stick in the right spot while allowing me to delete the TVR linkage
2. The tool quality bronze shifter cup that apparently delivers a more direct shift feel
3. The proper billet bronze fork shifter pads that last longer and also give a better shift feel
4. The S-10 Hurst quick shift kit custom made for me by Core Shifters to my 6" stick length which which gives a shorter and faster throw plus an increased self centring spring effect which should all come together nicely to deliver that lovely snickety snick gear engagement we all like so much
On top of that lot I've got my custom 19lb chrome moly steel flywheel and a Lloyd Specialist Developments lighter clutch going in. To finish the job off I'll be having some SC-Power engine mounts fitted as my 19 year old originals are clearly due for replacement.
It's quite a bit of spending on a whole bunch of stuff no one will ever see and they certainly aren't the normal exciting modifications you read about on these pages, but I'm convinced I'm putting my little year end TVR modifying budget towards the right things.
I'm confident getting shot of my heavy Helix clutch, making the gear shift smother and more direct while taking a further 6lbs out of the flywheel weight will all combine to deliver the best improvement to my TVR driving pleasure for my money.
I started this post because I could see the benefits in deleting the TVR linkage, I was shot down fairly early on by some who said "why fix something that isn't broken?"
The truth is it isn't broken, but it sure as hell could be significantly better!
TVR knew all this very well themselves which is why if you bought a later Tuscan/T350/Tamora or Sagaris you got a gearbox that puts the stick right where it should be without the need for an over complicated "down one end and back up the front" linkage with all it's play prone joints.
I'm pleased that others understood what I was trying to achieve her and could see the potential benefits. Is nice to see others have pursued the idea and that they are already confirming the S-10 tail housing idea is indeed delivering real benefits in shift quality an feel
Conclusive proof to those who said "why fix something that isn't broken" that things don't have to start of broken to be massively improved
Modifying these cars isn't always about simply adding horsepower, for me it's about taking an intelligent and holistic approach to the art of enhancing driving pleasure. The controls in a driver's car are what connect you to the machine, anything you can do to improve the tactile pleasure and feedback coming from those controls is going to massively enhance your driving pleasure.
I love driving my TVR because it delivers that raw connection with the machine you simple don't get from a modern car, anything that enhances these unique character traits can only serve to directly enhanced my TVR driving pleasure
Badgerchim said:
This might help. There is a good picture showing the plastic bush into which the ball at the end of the shifter locates. I understand the brass upgrade provides a more positive gear change whether a standard or short shifter is used and will last longer.
http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/threads/t5-tail...
Thanks for that Tim, very helpful http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/threads/t5-tail...
I take it this is the part I need to order:
http://www.thegearbox.org/catalog/item/3819132/708...
ChimpOnGas said:
Update!
So I now have the following upgrades to be fitted in pursuit of the perfect shifting T5:
1. The S-10 tail housing itself, putting the gear stick in the right spot while allowing me to delete the TVR linkage
2. The tool quality bronze shifter cup that apparently delivers a more direct shift feel
3. The proper billet bronze fork shifter pads that last longer and also give a better shift feel
4. The S-10 Hurst quick shift kit custom made for me by Core Shifters to my 6" stick length which which gives a shorter and faster throw plus an increased self centring spring effect which should all come together nicely to deliver that lovely snickety snick gear engagement we all like so much
Excellent stuff Dave sounds like a quality upgrade. What are you doing about the dogleg to get the stick in the right place, are you getting your Hurst quick shift kit custom made with this in mind? So I now have the following upgrades to be fitted in pursuit of the perfect shifting T5:
1. The S-10 tail housing itself, putting the gear stick in the right spot while allowing me to delete the TVR linkage
2. The tool quality bronze shifter cup that apparently delivers a more direct shift feel
3. The proper billet bronze fork shifter pads that last longer and also give a better shift feel
4. The S-10 Hurst quick shift kit custom made for me by Core Shifters to my 6" stick length which which gives a shorter and faster throw plus an increased self centring spring effect which should all come together nicely to deliver that lovely snickety snick gear engagement we all like so much
MPoxon said:
Excellent stuff Dave sounds like a quality upgrade. What are you doing about the dogleg to get the stick in the right place, are you getting your Hurst quick shift kit custom made with this in mind?
No mate, my thinking is the dogleg is much like the tail housing mounting bracket in that it absolutely needs to be fabricated on the car to make it perfect. The way I see it the existing rubber bushed TVR gear stick with it's existing correctly spaced dogleg is 95% there already, so whats the point in reinventing the wheel by creating something new when money and time can be saved by recycling and adapting what I have already?This is where the skills of the Lloyd team come in, inevitably there will be some fettling of such bespoke fabricated components and that can only really be done on the car.
All I'm really doing here is armchair designing something that in theory (and I stress IN THEORY!) should effect a good improvement, I'm just the magpie of the operation collecting parts to present to Lloyd Specialist Developments who will do the real skilled work.
At the end of the day there is only so much you can do from the comfort of a keyboard before someone actually needs to get their hands dirty, fortunately the team at LSD entertain my lazy ways and work with me to ensure I get the results I'm seeking.
They are very patent with me and my armchair designing ways but the truth is they are the clever ones who actually make things happen and my ideas work.
As such I'm very lucky to have them on side, fortunately they seem to get what I'm trying to achieve with 'Ol Gasbag' and they genuinely carry the same raw enthusiasm for all my chosen TVR enhancements
I believe strongly that if you're sub contracting very unusual and specialist projects like my LPG conversion you've got to have a team of people onside who totally embrace your objectives and believe they are achievable.
You need to accept there will always be little bumps in the road with this type of specialist work, things I just hadn't thought about no matter how extensive my forum activity and Google searching is. Its when the parts start going in that we may still find little unforeseen challenges, it's just the nature of the beast and also when you need committed problem solvers on side.
Its at this point the LSD team typically call me, not to moan that things aren't going to plan and some of my parts don't quite fit or work as hoped, but to explain the issue and suggest solution. You'll only get this from a team who believes in the project and believes it can be a success.
Anyone else would probably just give up and tell their customer the job isn't possible. The Lloyd brothers are different, they set their business up specifically with the development of these cars in mind, which if you think bout it is quite a brave business model.
Fortunately their professionalism and skill is matched by their enthusiasm and belief that anything can be achieved with enough intelligent thought and quality engineering.
My days of spannering professionally are a long way in my past, these days all I really do is come up with ideas, sign the cheques, and enjoy the end results
When I was in the restoration game as younger man I used to get guys coming into the workshop commissioning work on some lovely stuff I knew I'd never afford, simply because they had the money to do it. I was skint as hell in those days and often up to my neck in stinky gearbox oil, so I promised myself one day I'd be the guy with the toys and no grease under my fingernails paying someone else to do the graft.
I still enjoy the creative and engineering side of it all but not the cold workshops and the skinned knuckles, so here in lies the true reason why I spend too much of my time on these pages coming up with more ways to spend money on things to improve my TVR pleasure that may only ever make sense to a few.
My excuse?
Well, as a hobby it all works really really well for me so the way I see it there are no excuses needed
I'm abandoning my aluminium gear lever and going back to steel to add some weight. With it being attached directly to the box it feels quite notchty. I wonder if the remote mechanism gave it a damping effect with all its mass. I'm going to hold off on the shifter bush and try the heavier lever and maybe change the fluid as I put some cheap stuff in to flush it through following opening the case.
Some more parts fresh from the States.
First impressions of the Core Shifter modified Hurst Quick Shift unit are it's self centering effect is quite strong, but that's just playing with in my hand so I've got zero leverage on it.
I'll pop it in the vice later and and fab up a crude 6" stick just to see how it feels, but even then it's not really a test of any sort as obviously it needs to be fitted to the box first to get the proper feel of it.
The good news is the weight of the self centering effect is tuneable by adding or subtracting the wavey shim springs so I should be able to get the perfect feel I want.
Here's Paul showing you the springs I'm on about.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5VHU6eHDPrE
The key difference with my Hurst shifter is I just unbolt to change the springs, no grinding required
First impressions of the Core Shifter modified Hurst Quick Shift unit are it's self centering effect is quite strong, but that's just playing with in my hand so I've got zero leverage on it.
I'll pop it in the vice later and and fab up a crude 6" stick just to see how it feels, but even then it's not really a test of any sort as obviously it needs to be fitted to the box first to get the proper feel of it.
The good news is the weight of the self centering effect is tuneable by adding or subtracting the wavey shim springs so I should be able to get the perfect feel I want.
Here's Paul showing you the springs I'm on about.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5VHU6eHDPrE
The key difference with my Hurst shifter is I just unbolt to change the springs, no grinding required
ChimpOnGas said:
Some more parts fresh from the States.
First impressions of the Core Shifter modified Hurst Quick Shift unit are it's self centering effect is quite strong, but that's just playing with in my hand so I've got zero leverage on it.
I'll pop it in the vice later and and fab up a crude 6" stick just to see how it feels, but even then it's not really a test of any sort as obviously it needs to be fitted to the box first to get the proper feel of it.
The good news is the weight of the self centering effect is tuneable by adding or subtracting the wavey shim springs so I should be able to get the perfect feel I want.
Here's Paul showing you the springs I'm on about.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5VHU6eHDPrE
The key difference with my Hurst shifter is I just unbolt to change the springs, no grinding required
Nice kit First impressions of the Core Shifter modified Hurst Quick Shift unit are it's self centering effect is quite strong, but that's just playing with in my hand so I've got zero leverage on it.
I'll pop it in the vice later and and fab up a crude 6" stick just to see how it feels, but even then it's not really a test of any sort as obviously it needs to be fitted to the box first to get the proper feel of it.
The good news is the weight of the self centering effect is tuneable by adding or subtracting the wavey shim springs so I should be able to get the perfect feel I want.
Here's Paul showing you the springs I'm on about.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5VHU6eHDPrE
The key difference with my Hurst shifter is I just unbolt to change the springs, no grinding required
ChimpOnGas said:
Some more parts fresh from the States.
First impressions of the Core Shifter modified Hurst Quick Shift unit are it's self centering effect is quite strong, but that's just playing with in my hand so I've got zero leverage on it.
I am very confused by the quick shifter, the hurst unit looks to be the best out there so I have been looking at the site you mentioned but there are many options on fulcrum height? What one did you go for Dave, I assume the 2.13" for 6" stick? First impressions of the Core Shifter modified Hurst Quick Shift unit are it's self centering effect is quite strong, but that's just playing with in my hand so I've got zero leverage on it.
http://www.core-shifters.com/collections/swap-base...
The site also states you must buy the matching stick from there so it fits, I cannot seem to find the 6" stick you have ordered on their site..
The Burton power version does not have all these options?
Edited by MPoxon on Friday 16th October 16:18
MPoxon said:
I am very confused by the quick shifter the hurst unit looks to be the best out there so I have been looking at the site you mentioned but what there are many options on fulcrum height??? What one did you go for Dave, I assume the 2.13" for 6" stick?
http://www.core-shifters.com/collections/swap-base...
The site also states you must buy the matching stick from there so it fits, I cannot seem to find the 6" stick you have ordered on their site..
The Burton power version does not have all these options?
Well you're right to be confused, because it's all a bit confusing.http://www.core-shifters.com/collections/swap-base...
The site also states you must buy the matching stick from there so it fits, I cannot seem to find the 6" stick you have ordered on their site..
The Burton power version does not have all these options?
You are right to assume I chose the 2.13" fulcrum 6" stick S-10 model but I had hoped for a bit more guidance from Core Shifters to be hones.
I did ask for his help but he remained firmly sat on the fence, his excuse was there are so many variables I would be best to buy the nearest match then try the thing in my car.
While this wasn't overly helpful I can understand why his suggesting something could easily end in a return because everyone likes a slightly different feel & throw.
He did explain he would happily support me with a different fulcrum if it wasn't right for me, he also sent comprehensive fitting and spring weight adjustment instructions so I can tune the thing myself.
At the end of the day you have to start somewhere and it might be right straight out of the box or require a few tweaks, as such it is a bit of a gamble and I may just end up with my original TVR one in any case.
But the Core Shifter modified Hurst units do get well reviewed and with some twaeks there's no reason why it cant be made perfect for my tastes.
One thing is for sure though the TVR shifter was chosen to work with the TVR linkage and not the S-10 tail housing so it also wouldn't surprise me if it's not ideal in an S-10 setup.
I'm going to start sounding like a stuck record here but... "Only time will tell if the Core Shifter was a good idea or just a waste of money".
Dave.
MPoxon said:
Thanks for that Tim, very helpful
I take it this is the part I need to order:
http://www.thegearbox.org/catalog/item/3819132/708...
Yep,thats the one.I take it this is the part I need to order:
http://www.thegearbox.org/catalog/item/3819132/708...
Sardonicus said:
I will gladly post up my shifter solution I will try rigid 1st then if its noisy I will rubber mount 
but it wont be till winter I reckon I have far more pressing matters of going full seq inj and VAG logic coil packs new loom etc up and running 1st 
the gearbox is minor but I am not just ripping it all to pieces at the moment I have a functioning gearbox so ...... the stock shifter pads can stay way I see it if they are showing no noticeable wear after 100k + and 20 years their staying major manufacturers use them for hundreds of thousands of miles without bother i.e Nissan and if you know the fundamentals of a transmission those bronze fork pads will make FA shift improvement IMO unless you old ones are cream crackered of course dont let that stop you from using them though this may be of interest for anyone dealing or overhauling a T5 http://www.ddperformance.com/content/PDF/T5Manual....
Not sure about the brass shifter fork pads now but it wont be till winter I reckon I have far more pressing matters of going full seq inj and VAG logic coil packs new loom etc up and running 1st the gearbox is minor but I am not just ripping it all to pieces at the moment I have a functioning gearbox so ...... the stock shifter pads can stay way I see it if they are showing no noticeable wear after 100k + and 20 years their staying major manufacturers use them for hundreds of thousands of miles without bother i.e Nissan and if you know the fundamentals of a transmission those bronze fork pads will make FA shift improvement IMO unless you old ones are cream crackered of course dont let that stop you from using them though this may be of interest for anyone dealing or overhauling a T5 http://www.ddperformance.com/content/PDF/T5Manual....Edited by Sardonicus on Friday 16th October 11:19
I could certainly do with halting the spending so if you think they're an unnecessary extravagance I might give them a miss Simon.
I hear making sure the end float on the lay shaft and input shaft is way more important for a good shift, which is exactly the same as any manual box really.
As Simon said they probably are a bit overkill, but my tailshaft came complete with cover, short shaft, forks etc but the pads looked past their best.
I decided to install the new second hand assembly complete and as i had to change the pads upgrade them with the brass. When i do an upgrade i alway try to keep the originals bits as spares when i can.
I decided to install the new second hand assembly complete and as i had to change the pads upgrade them with the brass. When i do an upgrade i alway try to keep the originals bits as spares when i can.
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