T5 Gearbox Linkage
Discussion
ukkid35 said:
ChimpOnGas said:
That doesn't have the mounts used by TVRs, or the right shifter location
You're either taking the pish or I think you might have missed the entire point of this topic, my topic.
Go right back to the very beginning of page one and the very first post, I explain it there
ChimpOnGas said:
Damn it man you're right, I didn't see that, I'd better remove the Chevrolet S10 tail housing from the back of my TVR T5 then
You're either taking the pish or I think you might have missed the entire point of this topic, my topic.
Go right back to the very beginning of page one and the very first post, I explain it there
Ooops - point takenYou're either taking the pish or I think you might have missed the entire point of this topic, my topic.
Go right back to the very beginning of page one and the very first post, I explain it there
However, my original post is still valid - TVR Specific T5WC parts are now becoming NLA - try finding an input shaft...
ukkid35 said:
ChimpOnGas said:
Damn it man you're right, I didn't see that, I'd better remove the Chevrolet S10 tail housing from the back of my TVR T5 then
You're either taking the pish or I think you might have missed the entire point of this topic, my topic.
Go right back to the very beginning of page one and the very first post, I explain it there
Ooops - point takenYou're either taking the pish or I think you might have missed the entire point of this topic, my topic.
Go right back to the very beginning of page one and the very first post, I explain it there
However, my original post is still valid - TVR Specific T5WC parts are now becoming NLA - try finding an input shaft...
As it turns out TVR actually selected the very highest rated Ford Performance Parts Super-Duty M-7003-Z T5 World Class transmission, this box has a torque rating of 330ft/lbs based on 100,000 mile usage, better still the stock T-5Z can handle up to 450hp with a reasonably non aggressive clutch and assuming it's not heavily shock loaded as you would when drag racing. Borg Warner were always typically conservative with their figures too, this is evidenced by the many supercharged and turbocharged Chimaera out there now that are still running their original TVR equipment M-7003-Z T5 World Class transmission with no issues, it's also how TVR could get away with using the T5 of 4.5 Cerberas that often made over 400hp and close to 400ft/lbs of torque.
Basically the M-7003-Z we have got the best of everything, hardened gears, steel front bearing retainer, and tapered output shaft bearing. A notable further difference with the M-7003-Z vs lesser T5 World Class transmissions centres around reverse gear synchronisation or rather the lack of it on the M-7003-Z. Of course no T5 offers synchro on reverse but you do get the 'Reverse Brake' feature from 1992 on, from this point on all T5s received the 'Reverse Brake' feature which was only mildly effective and was never adopted by any other auto manufacturer. To implement it required the use of several redesigned parts making the main case, the tail housing, the fifth gear synchro hub, and almost all of the linkage for fifth gear and reverse gear engagement incompatible between the 1991 and 1992 model years.
But here's the thing, when I said all I didn't actually mean all because the M-7003-Z is the only post 1992 T5 transmission that did NOT adopt this change, the lack of 'Reverse Brake' was deemed unnecessary as the box we have was really conceived for motor sport, as such BW felt it was unlikely to be used by your Nan when reverse parking at Tescos so no 'Reverse Brake' was used on the M-7003-Z. This is of course why all TVR owners with a T5 box have developed the habit of slotting the box into fifth just before selecting reverse to help synchronise the engagement of reverse gear and avoid that nasty crunch. An additional tip with the M-7003-Z box is when it blocks reverse selection completely (quite common) rather than forcing it in simply lift your foot from the clutch pedal an let the engine spin a few revolutions in neutral, try that reverse gear again and she should slot in perfectly.
The purpose of this post was to delete the rather Heath Robinson gear linkage TVR were forces to adopt because the box they were using was designed for the Cobra Mustang which had the gear stick further back than TVR wanted, this is because of the shorter wheelbase architecture of the Griffiths and Chimaeras and TVR wanted to shove the engine as far back as they could for the perfect weight bias. TVR never would have made that linkage by choice, it was merely a way to solve a problem that by around the year 2000 had been resolved by the adoption of the more suitable tail housing seen on all their later models, TVR also used this more suitable tail housing on the very last run of Chimaeras.
In this post I and others explored the benefits of merely copying TVR by using a more suitable tail housing allowing the deletion of the TVR the gear linkage use on all but the very last few Chimaeras, the Chevrolet S-10 tail housing was identified early on as offering the solution at reasonable cost. For those that don't know the Chevrolet S-10 is actually a rather work-a-day puckup only sold in the US, but they did sell millions of the things so the S-10 tail housing remains a cheap & readily available solution to get the gear stick in the right place on a Chim or Griff without the need for that linkage with all its wear & slop prone joints.
The only reason this works is the S-10 pickup has the typical great long gear stick you often see on puckups which is generally used to make changing gear possible in a vehicle with a bench seat, puckups of course tend to have bench seats because by design they do not to have a rear seat (crew cabs excepted). To get three big guys off to a job without sticking one in the bed means a bench seat becomes essential, so you either need a column shift or a great 3.5' long cranked magic wand gear stick (as with the S-10) or you'll be touching your work mates in an inappropriate way every time you shift a gear.
So the S-10 tail housing only works for us TVR owners by a happy coincidence, but because so many S-10 pickups were made and so many reside in scrap yards in the States its actually the perfect readily available and cheap to buy solution for us TVR owners who want to delete that linkage. A few of us have completed this conversion now but I can only speak for myself when I say I would never go back to that TVR linkage, I love the way the S-10 tail housing improved the feel of my M-7003-Z T5. Others are reporting positive results too, its not like the TVR linkage is absolutely awful as the vast majority of us have been using it for years with great success, but there's no doubt it can be improved upon and the S-10 tail housing is clearly the way to do it.
TVR knew this which is why they stopped making the linkage as soon as a more suitable tail housing came along, all we're really doing here is following the lead set my TVR themselves.
Edited by ChimpOnGas on Friday 25th November 11:37
ChimpOnGas said:
As it turns out TVR actually selected the very highest rated Ford Performance Parts Super-Duty M-7003-Z T5 World Class transmission, this box has a torque rating of 330ft/lbs based on 100,000 mile usage, better still the stock T-5Z can handle up to 450hp with a reasonably non aggressive clutch and assuming it's not heavily shock loaded as you would when drag racing. Borg Warner were always typically conservative with their figures too, this is evidenced by the many supercharged and turbocharged Chimaera out there now that are still running their original TVR equipment M-7003-Z T5 World Class transmission with no issues, it's also how TVR could get away with using the T5 of 4.5 Cerberas that often made over 400hp and close to 400ft/lbs of torque.
Very interesting and useful - thanks.Unless my 4.5 Cerb is unusual with 410hp and 360ft/lbs, AJP8 torque is not that close to 400 which makes the box slightly less overstressed.
Also, the M-7003-Z sold by Summit racing is in no way a direct swap.
- 1-1/16 in. diameter 10-tooth input spline
- 28-tooth output spline
Also, just curious as to which cars have the Gear Lever Kludge?
I bought a T5WC from a Griff owner, and it was a straight swap with a Cerb. But now I think about it one of the holes on the gear lever stub had been drilled out, perhaps to take the extra linkage as per your pic.
One last point, I have read that the nylon funnel fitted to the countershaft needs to match the tailhousing otherwise lubrication will be compromised - apparently not all funnels are the same.
ukkid35 said:
Very interesting and useful - thanks.
Unless my 4.5 Cerb is unusual with 410hp and 360ft/lbs, AJP8 torque is not that close to 400 which makes the box slightly less overstressed.
I'm sure you're right, I was using generic figures to bring my point to life, in my attempt to select the most powerful TVR using this box I may have inadvertently overstated the potential maximum torque output of a 4.5 Cerbera by 40ft/lbs. My point about the kind of power and torque figures the M-7003-Z has proven it can cope with in a TVR is hopefully still clear to all, no regular World Class box would have survive long n a 4.5 Cerbera that's for sure.Unless my 4.5 Cerb is unusual with 410hp and 360ft/lbs, AJP8 torque is not that close to 400 which makes the box slightly less overstressed.
ukkid35 said:
Also, the M-7003-Z sold by Summit racing is in no way a direct swap.
With respect this is irrelevant to my comment, I was referring to the M-7003-Z box TVR specifically ordered from Borg Warner from 1995 to 2006 not the M-7003-Z available from Summit Racing in 2016. Of course TVR selected a number of different ratios themselves, but my point is they were all the very highest spec M-7003-Z T5.- 1-1/16 in. diameter 10-tooth input spline
- 28-tooth output spline
ukkid35 said:
Also, just curious as to which cars have the Gear Lever Kludge?
What's a "Gear Lever Kludge?" 
ukkid35 said:
I bought a T5WC from a Griff owner, and it was a straight swap with a Cerb. But now I think about it one of the holes on the gear lever stub had been drilled out, perhaps to take the extra linkage as per your pic.
The tail housing that put the gear stick in the correct place only became available around 2000/2001, Cerberas were of course in production much earlier so they didnt get the newer tail housing, saying that they didn't require the Chim/Griff gear linkage either because the Cerbera is a longer wheelbase car so the packaging and ergonomics could accommodate the early tail housing.ukkid35 said:
One last point, I have read that the nylon funnel fitted to the countershaft needs to match the tailhousing otherwise lubrication will be compromised - apparently not all funnels are the same.
I read something along these lines myself but as the information was a little sketchy I checked with the respected US T5 gearbox specialist who I bought my parts from, he confirmed the S-10 tail housing would be a straight swap on my TVR M-7003-Z T5. I also took a lot of confidence from the fact John Reed has been doing this very same mod on TVRs for years, as such it is totally proven and presents no lubrication issues whatsoever.LongBaz said:
Has anyone got a redundant gear linkage as I bent mine when installing the engine and box in as one, including the linkage.
DOH big mistake.
Thanks
Barrie
I don't know what happened to my old linkage when I had the tailhousing changed on mine - if you can't straighten yours then drop me a PM and I'll see if I can locate my old one...DOH big mistake.
Thanks
Barrie
Phil
ChimpOnGas said:
The tail housing that put the gear stick in the correct place only became available around 2000/2001, Cerberas were of course in production much earlier so they didnt get the newer tail housing, saying that they didn't require the Chim/Griff gear linkage either because the Cerbera is a longer wheelbase car so the packaging and ergonomics could accommodate the early tail housing.
So the Cerb is the only TVR that didn't require either the later tail housing, or the Kludge (an ill-assorted collection of parts assembled to fulfil a particular purpose - Google definition)?
ukkid35 said:
So the Cerb is the only TVR that didn't require either the later tail housing, or the Kludge (an ill-assorted collection of parts assembled to fulfil a particular purpose - Google definition)?
Correct, no Kludge needed on the Cerbera... 
Kludge, a great new word for me and proves I never stop learning, thanks
ChimpOnGas said:
ukkid35 said:
So the Cerb is the only TVR that didn't require either the later tail housing, or the Kludge (an ill-assorted collection of parts assembled to fulfil a particular purpose - Google definition)?
Correct, no Kludge needed on the Cerbera... Kludge, a great new word for me and proves I never stop learning, thanks
Phil
Bassfiendnoideawhathp said:
ChimpOnGas said:
ukkid35 said:
So the Cerb is the only TVR that didn't require either the later tail housing, or the Kludge (an ill-assorted collection of parts assembled to fulfil a particular purpose - Google definition)?
Correct, no Kludge needed on the Cerbera... Kludge, a great new word for me and proves I never stop learning, thanks
Phil
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