Ecu upgrade, what to expect ?

[Sardonicus]

macdeb said:

Alun
Don't expect miracles from just a change to mappable ecu, but try and think further on. Do you expect [sounds as if you may] to modify the engine further? If so the new ECU will help enhance those improvements no end.

[QBee]

macdeb said:

Alun
Don't expect miracles from just a change to mappable ecu, but try and think further on. Do you expect [sounds as if you may] to modify the engine further? If so the new ECU will help enhance those improvements no end.

.....so long as you choose the right ECU first off? Please advise, Mac. Do they all do the same job (ignoring LPG conversions for now)?

[macdeb]

I have MS2, had my issues to begin with but all ok now after someone who knows what they are doing fettled with it. [Bailey performance] Some don't like to work with it and I understand if the installation was poor as it can be DIY. Knowing what I know now I 'may' have gone Emerald as 'some' tuners prefer it and so easier to find someone willing to work on it. Budgets come to mind. I have spent more on getting my MS right than it would've cost me to have another [better viewed by some] ecu installed, but then it depends on the guy who installed it. As it stands I am more than pleased with my MS2 and know many more who are. My present ECU managed my previous requirements of a switchable ignition map for nitrous [retarded when master switch armed] and now it seems able to manage my turbo installation with the added bonus of an overboost ignition cut out for instance.
I was merely trying to point out the fact that an aftermarket ECU will not perform miracles on it's own and the OP should consider what he may require long term. The choice is for the buyer.

Edited by macdeb on Monday 6th July 14:59

Edited by macdeb on Monday 6th July 15:04

Edited by macdeb on Monday 6th July 16:16

[JimTC]

Would like to compare the two options - one with a re-mapped CUX14 - one with an aftermarket ECU to try and gauge the level of improvement.

Shock horror, I'm looking for improved drive-ability (reduced shunting) rather than increased performance. Anyone in the Herefordshire/Gloucestershire/Worcestershire area with either a re-mapped CUX or aftermarket ECU that would be willing to take me out for a spin?

Thanks

[Bluebottle]

JimTC said:

Would like to compare the two options - one with a re-mapped CUX14 - one with an aftermarket ECU to try and gauge the level of improvement.

Shock horror, I'm looking for improved drive-ability (reduced shunting) rather than increased performance. Anyone in the Herefordshire/Gloucestershire/Worcestershire area with either a re-mapped CUX or aftermarket ECU that would be willing to take me out for a spin?

Thanks

Effectively that is what i have...i can run without the omex200 controlling spark (so normal 14CUX system) or unplug the dizzie amp and plug the omex in...the difference IS substantial.

[QBee]

Jim, have you considered paying a visit to a geezer local to you? His name is Mark Adams and he is the RV8 guru. Thoroughly nice geezer. Budget no less than an hour if you telephone him for advice first!

He is based in Church Stretton, Salopia, so if my rainfall map is correct, he too will have webbed feet, just like yourself. Norfolk inbreeding joke deleted as inappropriate, even if funny

contact details

[Sardonicus]

JimTC said:

Would like to compare the two options - one with a re-mapped CUX14 - one with an aftermarket ECU to try and gauge the level of improvement.

Shock horror, I'm looking for improved drive-ability (reduced shunting) rather than increased performance. Anyone in the Herefordshire/Gloucestershire/Worcestershire area with either a re-mapped CUX or aftermarket ECU that would be willing to take me out for a spin?

Thanks

It was for that reason my brother wanted MS2 and yes I cured masked the dreaded luching and he can just enjoy the car now just for your information the car was A1 on the ign and ECU front it was just one of those cars that was not happy to run the correct lambda values in the 1600/1900 RPM zone even though he can run more advance there now but the fueling is just turned up a tad in that area

[ChimpOnGas]

QBee said:

.....so long as you choose the right ECU first off? Please advise, Mac. Do they all do the same job (ignoring LPG conversions for now)?

Yes, fundamentally, they all do the same thing; except some have more bells & whistles (inputs & outputs) than others.

Anyone looking at these systems should review the specifications and be honest with themselves what they really need, but more importantly what they may well want in the future.

The kind of things now offered by some are, traction control, OBD-II connectivity, the ability to run water injection and or NoS, and lots more. Do you really need all this in your TVR though? probably not yet but you may in the future?

With that in mind there's a tempting argument that says going for the most feature rich system you can afford is a good idea, MegaSquirt is really where price and flexibility converge but ideally you need to be a hands on type if you're choosing this path. If you start to dig into what MegaSquirt can do it is a case of "the sky's the limit".

The Canems system I have could be viewed as quite basic in comparison, but that was exactly it's original design brief and it most certainly shouldnt be seen as a weakness, the Canems petrol ECU has everything you need and more with ease of use being it's big selling point.

What the dual fuel LPG/Petrol ECU Canems offers is indeed a niche market thing but only because people are afraid of gas, probably because everyone knows someone who's had a bad experience with an LPG conversion and the fuel is very misunderstood. That's a pity really because the simple logic behind the Canems dual fuel ECU is quite revolutionary.

Back on petrol only the Emerald product always comes out well reviewed, I've not played with one yet but by all accounts they are very feature rich, easy to use and the support is excellent.

It's very easy to start playing Top Trumps with features on ECUs, but ultimately you need to make a pros & cons list and see what comes out best for you based on what you really need.

More importantly you need to know the support is there if you have issues and if someone else has fitted it that they've done a good job and are going to be there long term to solve any issues you may have in the future.

[ClassiChimi]

I've been considering both the MBE and Emerald systems, both well proven,
After talking to a few informed people, either systems seem more than upto the job,,,
MBE is good because I'm close to Tvr power and any issues I'm only minutes Way from Dom and his rolling road,
Powers have re built the engine too so that seems to make sence to have him install it, I've heard good things about Jay at Powers re mapping so that's a good option.

Emerald simply because of the good work Joolz does and the confidence that would give me but he is a little further away from me etc.

I'm close to choosing the MBE,,, I've already spoke about blown heads with Dom but I won't be doing engine mods other than induction at this time.

Looking at Derek's new build thread,,, that's what I really want to be doing,,, getting a 5.0 together!
Back on topic,,, I feel assured that most systems do the job it's more about the mapper/s who then work with it that matters the most.

[macdeb]

Didn't realise you were so close bloke, must meet up and you're welcome to a spin out and chat sometime [more of chat and less of 'spin' me thinks]
Both your above options look good

[Sardonicus]

Dont go out in Macs car Alun you will swear someones pulled 4 plug leads off of yours when you get in it next

[ClassiChimi]

I'm still not sure though,,,,,
Emerald,,,,, seems to be really well supported,,, it's between Emerald and MBE!
Has anyone got knowledge of both ecu's, do they have similar specs!
Is one def better than the other !

I better google and look properly!

[macdeb]

Sardonicus said:

Dont go out in Macs car Alun you will swear someones pulled 4 plug leads off of yours when you get in it next

[ClassiChimi]

Sardonicus said:

Dont go out in Macs car Alun you will swear someones pulled 4 plug leads off of yours when you get in it next

I drove Peters and my heart sank,,,,,, nothing will ever feel the same again, goal posts have moved
Yes Mac were not far apart, soon as I'm on the black stuff I can't wait to see your car let alone have a run in it with you,,


Rosetvr's Throttle bodied Griff is about the same speed as peters, more top end maybe but the torque in Peters car is fantastic, I've already come to the conclusion Peters car accelerated as fast in 5 th as my 4.6 in 2nd gear,,, I'm sure of it,
The real revelation with Phazed car was how he's got everything working so good around the engine,
It handles beautifully, almost easy, the powers huge but really easy to manage and balance on the throttle,
Brakes give confidence,,, my face is still in a contorted state from the speed at the end of the straights, the torque is massive and throws you up the road in any gear at warp speed, it's fjcking fantastic.

That's why I want to move on with the spark and fuel side of the original car, build an engine one day,,,,

[phazed]

Reliability and control.

Don't expect miracles!

You have the software to dial out shunting and adjust to future mods but as far as performance is concerned, it'll be about the same.

[davelittlewood]

ClassiChimi said:

I've been considering both the MBE and Emerald systems, both well proven,
After talking to a few informed people, either systems seem more than upto the job,,,
MBE is good because I'm close to Tvr power and any issues I'm only minutes Way from Dom and his rolling road,
Powers have re built the engine too so that seems to make sence to have him install it, I've heard good things about Jay at Powers re mapping so that's a good option.

Emerald simply because of the good work Joolz does and the confidence that would give me but he is a little further away from me etc.

I'm close to choosing the MBE,,, I've already spoke about blown heads with Dom but I won't be doing engine mods other than induction at this time.

Looking at Derek's new build thread,,, that's what I really want to be doing,,, getting a 5.0 together!
Back on topic,,, I feel assured that most systems do the job it's more about the mapper/s who then work with it that matters the most.

Ey up, I'm only down the road in Rugby
Dom's already offered to fit the MBE to mine when the CUX dies!! I'm sure that every time it goes in for a service he grabs the harness as it goes into the CUX and gives it a good tug! but it's still working,
Jay also offered me multiple maps with the MBE and the software/leads to change the map.
One map for driving down to the south coast with a relaxed throttle curve and settings for max economy and another for fast road with a more aggressive set up.

Tried a Griff with the MBE installed, went like the clappers but also felt so easy to drive. No shunting and very smooth delivery..

My only concern is how do you modify the set up if you change something significant like changing the inlet trumpets or porting the heads.
Presumably it has to go back on the rolling road to optimise the ECU settings?

Just paid off the credit card for the chassis restoration so any more goodies will have to wait until next years bonus!

[Richard 858]

I'm booked in with Dom for the MBE (and a good look over for anything engine wise that might need attention !) on the 27th so I'll keep you all posted ( especially you Alun).

[davelittlewood]

Richard 858 said:

I'm booked in with Dom for the MBE (and a good look over for anything engine wise that might need attention !) on the 27th so I'll keep you all posted ( especially you Alun).

Richard,

Will you get a rolling road before and after so we can all see the difference?

[blitzracing]

JimTC said:

Would like to compare the two options - one with a re-mapped CUX14 - one with an aftermarket ECU to try and gauge the level of improvement.

Shock horror, I'm looking for improved drive-ability (reduced shunting) rather than increased performance. Anyone in the Herefordshire/Gloucestershire/Worcestershire area with either a re-mapped CUX or aftermarket ECU that would be willing to take me out for a spin?

Thanks

Its all down to mixture control- Ive had some promising results by adding extra fuel at the shunting points to the 14CUX map to smooth it, but the problem is it stops the Lambda cycle, so effectively puts a little more fuel into the catalysts in the process, which then has to be burnt. The potential result is the catalysts could get hotter than normal, but TBH, I dont think the ECU puts in so much fuel at these low speeds to cause an issue, but Im proceeding with caution accordingly. It also wont pass an MOT high idle test as the cycling stopped, not thats this is a major issue as you can easily switch maps between blue and white (for MOT) with a switch. You dont have these issues without catalysts, as you can throw in as much fuel as you like- running around 13.5:1 AFR at low speed makes the engine much smoother than the target 14.7:1. Im not sure how the after market boys deal with the emissions side of things, but Id suspect if you keep the fuel tight at 14.7:1 it wont improve things that much. If you can set the target AFR to run richer with wide band lambda probes on aftermarket, and not cook the catalysts in the process, its probably the best you can do.

[ClassiChimi]

Davelittlewood,, eh up mate, it's a small world. Have to meet up sometime,
Thanks for the comments.
Richard, my car will hopefully be in line after yours,
I've just done 30 miles on my bike and decided Dom boys can do it,
All this revolves around a house sale so I hope I don't get egg on my face?

Ruchard om me your number and I'll give you a call