Ecu upgrade, what to expect ?

[ClassiChimi]

That's good to here Richard,,
I went to Powers today, Had a great time, Dom ripping the piss, me burning my finger on the manifold,,,all real mechanics would laugh at that,,,, seeing my car tethered and wired up,,, using Doms old Jag to collect some shocks and then dropping them off later in the day, I could hear a car on the dyno,,,, mine,,, by the time I'd faffed about and went to look,,, Jay up the office so the car silent but smelling and hot Jay is the reason why I went Mbe,, high standards,,, Watched Dom doing some machining and had a good old chin wagg,, mostly the new Tvr,,
When the customers leave and the boys get down to work,,,it's all quiet contemplation and consideration going on wherever you look,, they do concentrate those Boys,, I like a good garage,, the banter,,,

I've suspected a misfire almost from the moment I drove the new system,,,
My speedo now reads 12 mph to high and jumps,, when I arrived at Doms this evening,,, Jay confirmed the misfire and suspects the speedo, Earth etc,, I'll post the results ???

Any thoughts on the speedo/ misfire issue anyone ?

[ClassiChimi]

My cars been mapped, about 254 hp at the wheels,, still some road mapping to do and odd jobs so the cars staying putt until next week,,
I've not seen charts or anything yet but 254 doesn't sound to bad for a 4.6.. At the wheels so if we say add about 15-20%
What's that about 275 or so,, about right for a standard engine I'd have thought.

Added to add,,, my math ain't great but I make that anywhere between 292.1 to 304.8 hp?

Edited by ClassiChimi on Friday 16th October 17:41

[ChimpOnGas]

ClassiChimi said:

My cars been mapped, about 254 hp at the wheels,, still some road mapping to do and odd jobs so the cars staying putt until next week,,
I've not seen charts or anything yet but 254 doesn't sound to bad for a 4.6.. At the wheels so if we say add about 15-20%
What's that about 275 or so,, about right for a standard engine I'd have thought.

Added to add,,, my math ain't great but I make that anywhere between 292.1 to 304.8 hp?

Edited by ClassiChimi on Friday 16th October 17:41

I'd work on a 18% loss through the drive train from the flywheel back (gearbox, prop, diff and hubs).

So that's as near as damn it bang on 300 Shetlands at the crank

That's a very good figure for a standard 4.6, my mate's 500 makes the same and that's considered a fit 500.

Congratulations mate

[ClassiChimi]

The more I think about it the more impressed I am, standard plenum, standard heads, standard pistons and 57,000 miles ( honed bores and new rings at 49,000 miles,, )
Kent 885 cam so nothing special there,
Until I see the paper I'm not sure I get that,, my car is catted, pre cats removed but standard exhaust otherwise,,,
Catted 292+ ?? Am I missing something or is that rather damn good? Thanks Dave,,,
It's good when things go well

[MPoxon]

ClassiChimi said:

My cars been mapped, about 254 hp at the wheels,, still some road mapping to do and odd jobs so the cars staying putt until next week,,
I've not seen charts or anything yet but 254 doesn't sound to bad for a 4.6.. At the wheels so if we say add about 15-20%
What's that about 275 or so,, about right for a standard engine I'd have thought.

Added to add,,, my math ain't great but I make that anywhere between 292.1 to 304.8 hp?

Really good result Alun. My 500 is 254BHP at the wheels on Dom's Dyno and that is with the carbon plenum, bigger injectors, bigger AFM, fuel reg carbon trumpets, decat etc.



254BHP is around 300BHP at the fly on a Dyno Dynamics setup.

[ClassiChimi]

Cheers mate that's great for reference, I'm in shock, it can't be that high surely,, somethings a miss,
CATTED,
Mat was yours CATTED on that chart?
I'm getting a non cat map next
I'm now wondering about the torque curve,,,,
That's where the 5.0 l just blows the 4.6 away,,
My engine should be slightly higher on compression than standard by virtue of both head and block skimmed at rebuild but I can't see that being anything out of the ordinary??
Well well, I'm over the moon. Get in there

[Richard 858]

Really glad you're happy with the results Alun. I was there myself yesterday having my 1,000 mile run in oil & filter service and saw yours outside, nice and clean, shimmering through the beaded rain drops.
I had a chat with Jay and saw your graph on the screen, it must be really nice to drive now. Unfortunately I ran out of time or would have called you & popped in for that cuppa I also saw Mark Aldridges graph (another supercharged 450, similar to mine but with water/methanol injection added), very impressive figures and certainly a target for me. I'm now dropping mine off at Power next Saturday and leaving it there for a week to give Jay the time he needs to sort it properly.

[ClassiChimi]

It's the best way Rich,, I noticed something, Jay won't be rushed and I like that lots,,,
So tell me, you've seen my graph, what did it say,,,,, 254 bhp,,,,,,,?
Did you notice the torque curve by any chance,,,,,
Jeez,,I always thought mine was maybe a bit down on power,, well just questioned it,,,,
At last,,,
Mats curves, very nice,, about 280 torques,,, so mine about 240-50 ?
Mat has the AFM restriction for a start, Mbe Mat,,, big power mate
I've been wondering just where the engine sits,,,for a fairly bog standard intake,, totally standard intake???,,, this is really impressive.
Almost 4 years this November, since I took this baby on,,,
I shouldn't temp fate but it feels like the keys to a totally different car yet exactly the same,,,,,
Like its the brand new car I've been wishing and saving for like some kid,,,, I'm going to treat going to Doms next week like I'm picking the car up for the first time, over excited, stting myself too,
Like what it must have felt like for the young doctor,,, ( I think ?) who collected my car some 15 years ago August 8th 2000 from the dealer in Sheffield when she really was brand new,,,
Like some new beginning,,, it's a big moment there's no question about it,,,
ive been quietly confident but until it's dyno' you never know.
I replaced the old air pipe for the Act one before taking the car for mapping,
Driving over and through heavy traffic for about 45 minutes, engine a tad cooler, quieter on light throttle openings,,it felt better just with that mod alone!
Here's to a reliable future :thumbsup:

Edited by ClassiChimi on Friday 16th October 20:15

[TV8]

Great figures Alun. How does it drive? Having gone from 240 to 320/330 sometimes I find it all a bit scary unless the road is smooth and 100% dry!

[Richard 858]

I seem to remember your torque figure being around 283 ft/lbs at the wheels and Dom & Jay work on 15% loss through the drivetrain, which I'd agree with others is probably a bit conservative. However on that assumption you're probably looking at 292 hp & 325 ft/lbs at the flywheel but would likely be nearer to 300 & 334 at the flywheel.

Have fun when you pick it up, no need to fear it, it'll likely be much more predictable even with the extra grunt!

[ClassiChimi]

Hi Graham, I've not driven it yet, it's still at Powers,,, a few other bits to fettle, I'll collect it next week.
i can't wait,
The power thing, it's nice to have it but as you say, unless your on Tarmac you know like your hand, beware.
I'm looking forward to the exact throttle feel and how easy the engine raises and drops revs as you change foot pressure, stuff like that.
Those power figures sure give me food for thought, but saying that I like a bit of economy too so,, she's about perfect I reckon, long lasting, pretty quick and I can still do a long drive for reasonable money.
I best wait until I've driven the bugger, I'm busting to get behind the wheel.

[ClassiChimi]

He's built me a really good engine. Cheers Rich, wow I'm blown over by that,,
Normal plenum,, CATTED exhaust....
I'll post graph as soon as I get it.
Happy days ahead

[MPoxon]

ClassiChimi said:

Cheers mate that's great for reference, I'm in shock, it can't be that high surely,, somethings a miss,
CATTED,
Mat was yours CATTED on that chart?
I'm getting a non cat map next
I'm now wondering about the torque curve,,,,
That's where the 5.0 l just blows the 4.6 away,,
My engine should be slightly higher on compression than standard by virtue of both head and block skimmed at rebuild but I can't see that being anything out of the ordinary??
Well well, I'm over the moon. Get in there

Mine is completely standard internals but I have the following mods which have added around 40BHP over the years. You should be very very pleased with those figures Alun, you have the same power output as my healthy 500 with a number of performance enhancements. Most importantly of all though you will have a very drivable well mannered car, Mark Adams and Jason at TVR Power did a fantastic job with mine. Very pleased that you have a good result after all those years, no get out and drive it!!!

ACT Twin Throttle Carbon Fibre Plenum
ACT AFM to Air Filter Hose
ACT 44mm Carbon Fibre Superflare Trumpets
ACT Inlet Thermal Gasket
Mark Adams Tornado ECU EPROM – Mapped at TVR Power
Magnecor 8mm Ignition Leads
Larger Bosch Fuel Injectors
Larger Bosch AFM
Bosch 3bar Fuel Regulator
Clive Ford Decat Y
ACT replica S/S manifold (no precats)

[ClassiChimi]

Nice,,,, I'm happier than I could have imagined, I also have new vernier timing gears and new rockers, valves lapped in but no tuning to speak of,
Re ground crank 10thou,, maybe that extra bit of compression from the heads and block being skimmed is adding up,,

it's really the drivability that excites me though, pussy cat, hugely precise feel to the throttle opening,,
I had an almost brand new Jag XJ8 and owned it for years,, that had great ignition and fuelling feel,,,,,,
I'm almost inclined to think this is streets ahead of that even,,,,
This might be the best fuelling car I've owned??? Modern ??

[ClassiChimi]

MPoxon said:

ClassiChimi said:

Cheers mate that's great for reference, I'm in shock, it can't be that high surely,, somethings a miss,
CATTED,
Mat was yours CATTED on that chart?
I'm getting a non cat map next
I'm now wondering about the torque curve,,,,
That's where the 5.0 l just blows the 4.6 away,,
My engine should be slightly higher on compression than standard by virtue of both head and block skimmed at rebuild but I can't see that being anything out of the ordinary??
Well well, I'm over the moon. Get in there

Mine is completely standard internals but I have the following mods which have added around 40BHP over the years. You should be very very pleased with those figures Alun, you have the same power output as my healthy 500 with a number of performance enhancements. Most importantly of all though you will have a very drivable well mannered car, Mark Adams and Jason at TVR Power did a fantastic job with mine. Very pleased that you have a good result after all those years, no get out and drive it!!!

ACT Twin Throttle Carbon Fibre Plenum
ACT AFM to Air Filter Hose
ACT 44mm Carbon Fibre Superflare Trumpets
ACT Inlet Thermal Gasket
Mark Adams Tornado ECU EPROM – Mapped at TVR Power
Magnecor 8mm Ignition Leads
Larger Bosch Fuel Injectors
Larger Bosch AFM
Bosch 3bar Fuel Regulator
Clive Ford Decat Y
ACT replica S/S manifold (no precats)

What mileage is your engine on Mat?
The thing is,,,, even when the power curves look similar,, the 5.0 engines I've experienced always feel much more gruntie, on/off throttle just more of everything,,
Maybe the engine rebuild combined with the Mbe has put my 4.6 close, the extra advance over the disi is another area of performance,,
I'm hoping the mapping up through the revs will mimick the feel of the 5.0 more now,,,
Dom often points out its how the powers delivered and it's not just about the numbers,,
I think it should be pretty quick,, I better buy some new tyres

[MPoxon]

ClassiChimi said:

What mileage is your engine on Mat?
The thing is,,,, even when the power curves look similar,, the 5.0 engines I've experienced always feel much more gruntie, on/off throttle just more of everything,,
Maybe the engine rebuild combined with the Mbe has put my 4.6 close, the extra advance over the disi is another area of performance,,
I'm hoping the mapping up through the revs will mimick the feel of the 5.0 more now,,,
Dom often points out its how the powers delivered and it's not just about the numbers,,
I think it should be pretty quick,, I better buy some new tyres

52k on mine Alun.
Out of the box the 500 engines do feel quicker, but that is mainly the torque delivery from low down. The 4.6 I think is actually a better engine as you can rev it more, along with the other enhancements such cross bolting and internal balancing, with the 500 it is all over by about 5.5k . The 500 makes me lazy as I tend to leave mine in 3rd a lot of the time and ride around on the torque wave. In fact you can easily pull away in 3rd and at the other end on the scale it will take you up 100MPH.

Sounds like you have the best of both words with your 4.6 now, 500 power and the revvy character of the 4.6.

I 100% agree about it not being about the numbers, my carbon fibre twin throttle plenum is a classic example of that it. The new plenum made about 3bhp difference but it transformed the way the car drives the throttle response is now instant and I have a lovely weighted throttle pedal which is easy to balance. It has transformed the car from being lethargic to being eager to go.

Post up the graph for yours when you get it I would be very interested to compare.

[ClassiChimi]

^^^^^this,,, if I have anything like the torque feel of the 500 I'll be well impressed, yes it's funny how mods don't always add huge numbers but change the driving character and rewards the driver accordingly,,,
It's when your low revs off a tight turn when as you say you've left it in 3rd,,, that's when the 500 should just drag a yard on mine,,,, but maybe with the new electronics it's next to nothing in reality,, at Bedford for instance, if you really get on it so your screaming it in third,,, it's better for braking to stay in third but we often change up to save the lump,,, that's were I have more confidence in the 4.6 balance and ability at the top end, same as down shifts,, I do it early and keep the engine revving without fear,,, well I did,,

[ClassiChimi]

MPoxon said:

ClassiChimi said:

My cars been mapped, about 254 hp at the wheels,, still some road mapping to do and odd jobs so the cars staying putt until next week,,
I've not seen charts or anything yet but 254 doesn't sound to bad for a 4.6.. At the wheels so if we say add about 15-20%
What's that about 275 or so,, about right for a standard engine I'd have thought.

Added to add,,, my math ain't great but I make that anywhere between 292.1 to 304.8 hp?

Really good result Alun. My 500 is 254BHP at the wheels on Dom's Dyno and that is with the carbon plenum, bigger injectors, bigger AFM, fuel reg carbon trumpets, decat etc.



254BHP is around 300BHP at the fly on a Dyno Dynamics setup.

See how your power and especially the torque comes in fast and early and bloody high on yours,,
That's where mine should be lower I'd have thought but we'll soon see

[Sardonicus]

Nice result Alun impressive stuff

[ClassiChimi]

I've yet to sample the car Simon, you can't argue with the numbers ,,,
It's a proper good result,
I'm a right old whinger over getting the car together but now I'm vindicated, after so much time slowly doing stuff it's a relief and a huge satisfaction, Doms engine, all the major work done at Doms place, almost all the parts I've purchased from Dom,
He's done me proud, I've just got to look after the engine well now.