Ecu upgrade, what to expect ?
Discussion
MPoxon said:
Really good result Alun. My 500 is 254BHP at the wheels on Dom's Dyno and that is with the carbon plenum, bigger injectors, bigger AFM, fuel reg carbon trumpets, decat etc.
254BHP is around 300BHP at the fly on a Dyno Dynamics setup.
My 500 with a Taraka + MBE does 280bhp and 318torque on Dom's rollers. MBE alone added +19bhp / 46lb torque !254BHP is around 300BHP at the fly on a Dyno Dynamics setup.
It's that extra bit of advance, AFM restriction removed, if it's for a bit more power only then I'm not sure you'd get much more Swanny, it's the loom, no disi, just better manners alround that adds to the attraction,
I haven't even driven it yet so what do I know other than what my instincts are saying,,
If my torque curve is as high as suggested earlier in this post, ( I haven't seen the torque figure yet )
Then I'd put that down to the Mbe as much as anything, torque that's what I'm after any ways so I just need to feel the engine now to see how the figures correlate to seat of the pants driving,,,,
The most exciting thing I've found driving the car with Mbe, before mapping though,,, the throttle settings, just a tiny squeeze and you feel the map very accurately feathering fuel in, fly by wire sort of accuracy,
It just felt great to know it's all so procise,,, the fuel gauge going down slower also helps
I haven't even driven it yet so what do I know other than what my instincts are saying,,
If my torque curve is as high as suggested earlier in this post, ( I haven't seen the torque figure yet )
Then I'd put that down to the Mbe as much as anything, torque that's what I'm after any ways so I just need to feel the engine now to see how the figures correlate to seat of the pants driving,,,,
The most exciting thing I've found driving the car with Mbe, before mapping though,,, the throttle settings, just a tiny squeeze and you feel the map very accurately feathering fuel in, fly by wire sort of accuracy,
It just felt great to know it's all so procise,,, the fuel gauge going down slower also helps
You right, the MBE for me was not about extra power, more about efficiency.
No dizzie, AFM, stepper motor. Tick over stable. Revs far better than before & linear power right through the Rev range. Jason @ Power used over a tank of fuel to get the map spot on for my engine. I'm impressed.
No dizzie, AFM, stepper motor. Tick over stable. Revs far better than before & linear power right through the Rev range. Jason @ Power used over a tank of fuel to get the map spot on for my engine. I'm impressed.
ESDavey said:
My 500 with a Taraka + MBE does 280bhp and 318torque on Dom's rollers. MBE alone added +19bhp / 46lb torque !
That is a very impressive figure! Are you able to post the graph up, I would be very interested to see how that is delivered. Reinforces my thinking of going MBE next year.Sorry for the tread hijack Alun.
Edited by MPoxon on Sunday 18th October 19:17
MPoxon said:
That is a very impressive figure! Are you able to post the graph up, I would be very interested to see how that is delivered. Reinforces my thinking of going MBE next year.
Sorry for the tread hijack Alun.
Or stay with the 14CUX and fit a 20am with a remapSorry for the tread hijack Alun.
Edited by MPoxon on Sunday 18th October 19:17
phazed said:
It can be done but tweaking is limited.
My 5.0, Lucas and standard "5" AFM. Stage 4 heads though, that's what you need for the future...............
Look forward to your graph Alun!
I'm sure that more could have been got from the engine, my instructions to Joolz was to work on driveability more than absolute outright power, he did exactly that, it runs and drives fantastically and with 370 lb/ft My 5.0, Lucas and standard "5" AFM. Stage 4 heads though, that's what you need for the future...............
Look forward to your graph Alun!
Also, Joolz tells me that the Surry RR consistently reads 2% higher than his
M
Also, Joolz tells me that the Surry RR consistently reads 2% higher than his
Andav469 said:
phazed said:
It can be done but tweaking is limited.
My 5.0, Lucas and standard "5" AFM. Stage 4 heads though, that's what you need for the future...............
Look forward to your graph Alun!
I'm sure that more could have been got from the engine, my instructions to Joolz was to work on driveability more than absolute outright power, he did exactly that, it runs and drives fantastically My 5.0, Lucas and standard "5" AFM. Stage 4 heads though, that's what you need for the future...............
Look forward to your graph Alun!
Also, Joolz tells me that the Surry RR consistently reads 2% higher than his
phazed said:
M
Also, Joolz tells me that the Surry RR consistently reads 2% higher than his
The problem is..........you never have enough power, so need to think about what next Andav469 said:
phazed said:
It can be done but tweaking is limited.
My 5.0, Lucas and standard "5" AFM. Stage 4 heads though, that's what you need for the future...............
Look forward to your graph Alun!
I'm sure that more could have been got from the engine, my instructions to Joolz was to work on driveability more than absolute outright power, he did exactly that, it runs and drives fantastically My 5.0, Lucas and standard "5" AFM. Stage 4 heads though, that's what you need for the future...............
Look forward to your graph Alun!
Also, Joolz tells me that the Surry RR consistently reads 2% higher than his
phazed said:
Andav469 said:
Or stay with the 14CUX and fit a 20am with a remap
It can be done but tweaking is limited.My 5.0, Lucas and standard "5" AFM. Stage 4 heads though, that's what you need for the future...............
Look forward to your graph Alun!
The thing is you can never have enough power so with that in mind, sod it, stop while I'm ahead and be happy with what I've got,,,,,, for the time being??
It seems to me If these figures are correct then I've got a good 4.6 and the power is good,
Some really nice heads matched to the inlet would be some icing on the cake,,,
But actually,,, the last few occasions I've fired up the motor,, it's so sweet, the engines in a happy place,,
It's very exciting as I've done about 150 miles in the last 18 months,,
I always worried the engine is somehow less powerful than others but now I've changed my mind entirely,,
It's where it should be,,
All this waiting is doing my brain cell in,,,
I've been trying to keep busy but it's always there in the back of my mind,
Here's an interesting one Alun.
4.6
Lucas
Stage 4 heads
4 litre Pistons
72mm plenum
Tornado copy cam iirc
Vectra investors
Regulator wound up to suit.
Tipexed lines are previous engine I can't recall!
Power was good but fuelling was al over the place but actually drove smoothly.
That's the advantage of an after market programmable ECU.
Austec ran the car on the rollers and tweaked the regulator until max power was obtained at reasonable failing levels.
4.6
Lucas
Stage 4 heads
4 litre Pistons
72mm plenum
Tornado copy cam iirc
Vectra investors
Regulator wound up to suit.
Tipexed lines are previous engine I can't recall!
Power was good but fuelling was al over the place but actually drove smoothly.
That's the advantage of an after market programmable ECU.
Austec ran the car on the rollers and tweaked the regulator until max power was obtained at reasonable failing levels.
Very interesting, as can be seen by various graphs on here, the Lucus system with a good chip and even with the "5"AFM still does the job,,,,
4.0 Pistons,,,;)
Those stage 4 heads Peter,,have you been able to gestimate what extra power/torque they give you,,,
And finally,,,what sort of money should they be costing,,,?
4.0 Pistons,,,;)
Those stage 4 heads Peter,,have you been able to gestimate what extra power/torque they give you,,,
And finally,,,what sort of money should they be costing,,,?
Indeed the extra power that is attributed to alternative ECUs is merely a function of having mapped ignition. When I went to 123 ignition from the std Lucas ditributor with CUX14 retained as-is, my (rebuilt/enhanced) 4.3 went from 274 hp at 5,500 rpm to 300 hp at 6,000 rpm.
Having said that I can see me getting rid of the CUX system as I'm a bit tired of chasing the same returning hiccup with only red herrings having showed up at the rollers and/or Rovergauge so far, and getting rid of the rat's nest Land Rover loom and a drive in/drive out service with someone taking full responsibility for the engine management functioning as it should, starts to sound ever more enticing...
Having said that I can see me getting rid of the CUX system as I'm a bit tired of chasing the same returning hiccup with only red herrings having showed up at the rollers and/or Rovergauge so far, and getting rid of the rat's nest Land Rover loom and a drive in/drive out service with someone taking full responsibility for the engine management functioning as it should, starts to sound ever more enticing...
900T-R said:
Indeed the extra power that is attributed to alternative ECUs is merely a function of having mapped ignition. When I went to 123 ignition from the std Lucas ditributor with CUX14 retained as-is, my (rebuilt/enhanced) 4.3 went from 274 hp at 5,500 rpm to 300 hp at 6,000 rpm.
Having said that I can see me getting rid of the CUX system as I'm a bit tired of chasing the same returning hiccup with only red herrings having showed up at the rollers and/or Rovergauge so far, and getting rid of the rat's nest Land Rover loom and a drive in/drive out service with someone taking full responsibility for the engine management functioning as it should, starts to sound ever more enticing...
I have invested heavily into the 14CUX with larger AFM, Mark Adams, injectors etc to get the best out of it, I agree with you Eric MBE is very tempting and great to see someone offering the full service, loom, ECU, installation and mapping. MBE itself is a proper solution unlike some on the market, it is type approved for road going vehicles and used by OEM by the likes of Caterham and Noble, it even has an OBDII port with industry standard DTCs. Jason at TVR Power is also a very talented mapper.Having said that I can see me getting rid of the CUX system as I'm a bit tired of chasing the same returning hiccup with only red herrings having showed up at the rollers and/or Rovergauge so far, and getting rid of the rat's nest Land Rover loom and a drive in/drive out service with someone taking full responsibility for the engine management functioning as it should, starts to sound ever more enticing...
I did look at adding mapped spark to my 14CUX but I am not keen on having yet another component. MBE is a very neat solution. I never thought I would consider aftermarket but MBE is very tempting proposition indeed.
ClassiChimi said:
Very interesting, as can be seen by various graphs on here, the Lucus system with a good chip and even with the "5"AFM still does the job,,,,
4.0 Pistons,,,;)
Those stage 4 heads Peter,,have you been able to gestimate what extra power/torque they give you,,,
And finally,,,what sort of money should they be costing,,,?
About 50 horses with the Typhoon cam over standard RR heads.4.0 Pistons,,,;)
Those stage 4 heads Peter,,have you been able to gestimate what extra power/torque they give you,,,
And finally,,,what sort of money should they be costing,,,?
These.
http://www.v8developments.co.uk/products/heads/sta...
Dont be fooled by having a OBDII port Matthew people assume incorrectly they are the be all and end all for diagnostics 
they are not its how you interpret (as always) the information air-mass meters seldom throw fault codes/DTC's its not they stop working but the values become incorrect 
sadly ECU's even at OE level can not decipher these values as incorrect they just take the values in and spout junk out i.e rough running which then may then throw lambda probe fault codes pyrely because they are trying to dial in an over rich mixture due to the faulty AMM do you see? if you cut a coolant temp sensor it will just throw a faulty coolant sensor DTC not a "YOU HAVE CUT A WIRE FAULT CODE" 
unless you read real time data via a suitable reader/scanner but then for that you might as well plug in the lappy using the MBE software 
I know of at least 3 garages that back in the day thought they would purchase a Snap On OBD scanner for example and it would tell them exactly whats wrong 
wishfull thinking..... sadly customers still do 
am sure the MBE is a fine ECU of course just a bit of info on the matter thats all 
they are not its how you interpret (as always) the information air-mass meters seldom throw fault codes/DTC's its not they stop working but the values become incorrect sadly ECU's even at OE level can not decipher these values as incorrect they just take the values in and spout junk out i.e rough running which then may then throw lambda probe fault codes pyrely because they are trying to dial in an over rich mixture due to the faulty AMM do you see? if you cut a coolant temp sensor it will just throw a faulty coolant sensor DTC not a "YOU HAVE CUT A WIRE FAULT CODE" unless you read real time data via a suitable reader/scanner but then for that you might as well plug in the lappy using the MBE software I know of at least 3 garages that back in the day thought they would purchase a Snap On OBD scanner for example and it would tell them exactly whats wrong wishfull thinking..... sadly customers still do am sure the MBE is a fine ECU of course just a bit of info on the matter thats all Gassing Station | Chimaera | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff