Ecu upgrade, what to expect ?

[ClassiChimi]

phazed said:

ClassiChimi said:

Very interesting, as can be seen by various graphs on here, the Lucus system with a good chip and even with the "5"AFM still does the job,,,,
4.0 Pistons,,,;)
Those stage 4 heads Peter,,have you been able to gestimate what extra power/torque they give you,,,
And finally,,,what sort of money should they be costing,,,?

About 50 horses with the Typhoon cam over standard RR heads.

These.

http://www.v8developments.co.uk/products/heads/sta...

Very nice
the trouble is this opens up the turbo debate, cost against gains,
I think I seriously like my engine just as it is for now but if I was spending big bucks I think I'd go with some form of FI
I may well have a good combination right now,,, enough power and even good fuel figures for a car with 300+ bhp at the wheels, these cars are bonkers

[MPoxon]

Sardonicus said:

Dont be fooled by having a OBDII port Matthew people assume incorrectly they are the be all and end all for diagnostics they are not its how you interpret (as always) the information air-mass meters seldom throw fault codes/DTC's its not they stop working but the values become incorrect sadly ECU's even at OE level can not decipher these values as incorrect they just take the values in and spout junk out i.e rough running which then may then throw lambda probe fault codes pyrely because they are trying to dial in an over rich mixture due to the faulty AMM do you see? if you cut a coolant temp sensor it will just throw a faulty coolant sensor DTC not a "YOU HAVE CUT A WIRE FAULT CODE" unless you read real time data via a suitable reader/scanner but then for that you might as well plug in the lappy using the MBE software I know of at least 3 garages that back in the day thought they would purchase a Snap On OBD scanner for example and it would tell them exactly whats wrong wishfull thinking..... sadly customers still do am sure the MBE is a fine ECU of course just a bit of info on the matter thats all

100% agree with you on this Simon, many people think OBDII will tell you exactly what is wrong with the car which is incorrect, it is up to the operator to interpret the information from the reader to help troubleshoot the issue. My main interest is ODBII is mainly to output throttle position, revs etc to overlay onto my GoPro videos, yes I am sad!

Secondly one of my issues with aftermarket ECUs is at the moment I have a Steve Heath ECU Mate which is a fantastic piece of kit and has helped me diagnose issues quite a few times over the years, mine never throws up any DTCs but being able to see what the ECU sees from the sensors is very helpful for fault finding, particularly the TPS, lambdas and MAF etc. If i went aftermarket rather than having the ECU mate in the boot I would have to carry around a laptop with the software loaded on, I very much like the idea with the ODBII I can carry around a small ODBII reader for basic diagnosis if I need it.

[ClassiChimi]

I shouldn't tempt fate but I'm collecting my car from Powers Performance tomorrow,,,,,,,,,,,
So for the first time since I owned the car I should be able to feel all that hp and Torque,,, being released,,,,

I've also had new Protech shocks fitted,,, duel adjust??
Softer Spring rate?? Experiment??? And full geo, (without corner weights mind)

I'm like a coiled spring, can't wait to hear it, get behind the wheel,
I'll be driving tomorrow for sometime me thinks
Still haven't got dyno sheet but will post it up asap!

[TV8]

ClassiChimi said:

I shouldn't tempt fate but I'm collecting my car from Powers Performance tomorrow,,,,,,,,,,,
So for the first time since I owned the car I should be able to feel all that hp and Torque,,, being released,,,,

I've also had new Protech shocks fitted,,, duel adjust??
Softer Spring rate?? Experiment??? And full geo, (without corner weights mind)

I'm like a coiled spring, can't wait to hear it, get behind the wheel,
I'll be driving tomorrow for sometime me thinks
Still haven't got dyno sheet but will post it up asap!

Enjoy Alun!

as an aside, happy days in the Brooks household - my youngest passed his test today and gets lets loose on the roads of south london in the morning! He is a bit like a dog with two dicks as well!

[roseytvr]

TV8 said:

Enjoy Alun!

as an aside, happy days in the Brooks household - my youngest passed his test today and gets lets loose on the roads of south london in the morning! He is a bit like a dog with two dicks as well!

Graham - are you planning to track day it again next year?

If Alun is like a dog with two dicks he's calmed down a bit of late! We're talking 4 dicks and a park full of bhes on heat!

Take it easy Al and hope it's everything you dreamed of......oh and tell Dom what he needs to do next

[TV8]

Hi Ian, I was planning to track it this year! Life is definitely getting in the way lately and then foreign travels.

hopefully, it will be n track soon. I have taken it across France and Belgium a couple of times this summer, so it's not sat in the garage.

How is yours going?

[Tyre Tread]

Be careful tomorrow with all those extra ponies Alun as the weather forecast ain't great

[ClassiChimi]

Leave it out Ian
The weather,,,,typical,,,,,,,,,,,I might be in France in it next week
Graham, whatever got you thinking like that
My son is about to pass his test for the second time,,,,,,hopefully, long story,,,
He thinks he's gonna drive the Tvr,,,,, I might let him on a trackday someday but on the roads,,, no chance

Edited by ClassiChimi on Wednesday 21st October 00:10

[ClassiChimi]

Here's the dyno sheet for my car with the Mbe installed.
What your thoughts re torque please chaps,,,,,,,drops off after 4K would that likely be the cam I'm running?
I've not had chance to drive much but it feels pretty good,,,,, I'm fibbing, it feels really good
New heat socks on plug leads and two Lambda probes and a new exhaust rear bracket including bushes ,,,,, this cars nearly brand new,,,




So if we say use 18% and recalculate the figures,,,
300bhp
342 ft-lbs of torque,,,

Engine spec,
Standard Pistons, rods, new rings, re honed bores
10thou re ground crank with shells,
Vernier timing gear,
Kent 885 cam
Heads and block skimmed,,,,
Standard 4.6 heads, valves re lapped in,
Valve guides etc, new rockers
Oil pump gears,

No mods to induction other than smooth bore ACT intake pipe including elbow, K&N filter.
Standard plenum
Standard exhaust other than Pre cats removed.
CATTED Y pierce
Obviously these figures are post Mbe,,,

So with intake mods, de cat pipe,,,,330-340 Bhp or is that to much to ask?
Whatever I'm rather pleased so far

[MPoxon]

Alun, that is really impressive, you have the same BHP and more torque than my 500 which has had ££££s spent on mods and properly mapped.

Lovely flat torque curve i bet she is a dream to drive. Please take my advice and don't spend any more money on engine mods, you have a really nice package there, just spend the money on fuel and the occasional trackdays.

Enjoy fella!

ETA - I think you have the best of both worlds there - I have always liked the revy nature of the 4.6 and the piece of mind of the later cross bolted block, however after my 500 every 4.6 I have driven feels a bit slow in comparison, I miss the epic torque from the 500 which IMO makes the car feel faster than it actually is as it pins you into your seat in every gear. You have both now!!!

Edited by MPoxon on Wednesday 21st October 19:30

[Richard 858]

Great result Alun and glad you're happy with the result......for now anyway! Looks like you'll be changing up at between 5300 & 5500 rpm, if I'm reading the graphs correctly

[ClassiChimi]

Mat you couldn't be more right about the mods ,,
The air/fuel ratio isn't bad,, Dom says maybe another odd tweak but I'll drive it first and get some miles in.
I jumped in it and promptly sat in a traffic jam,,, fans kicking in and out and temps stable, I'll go and have a blast later
Richard yes entirely, it's a screamer,, keep it revving sort of motor,,,
That's where I loose out, that initial burst of torque, the bigger engine just gets you off slow corners in third gear,,
The power curve is exactly as the engine feels, even before the Ecu, but now it's just broader, more air, more fuel, better spark point,,,louder and that's always a good sign,,

Jay mentioned it's only the second 4.6 they'd done with a similar spec, almost the same power,,

Dom made me laugh,,, I said I'm not sure if I'd drive it to France,,, he said get in it and drive it there you tart,,, or words to that effect,,

Well I suppose it's time I sat in it and felt all this new found power,,,,,,hold on ,, temping fate,, bad bad idea,
Needless to say,,,, I might go for a gentle cruise later

[ClassiChimi]

MPoxon said:

Alun, that is really impressive, you have the same BHP and more torque than my 500 which has had ££££s spent on mods and properly mapped.

Lovely flat torque curve i bet she is a dream to drive. Please take my advice and don't spend any more money on engine mods, you have a really nice package there, just spend the money on fuel and the occasional trackdays.

Enjoy fella!

ETA - I think you have the best of both worlds there - I have always liked the revy nature of the 4.6 and the piece of mind of the later cross bolted block, however after my 500 every 4.6 I have driven feels a bit slow in comparison, I miss the epic torque from the 500 which IMO makes the car feel faster than it actually is as it pins you into your seat in every gear. You have both now!!!

Edited by MPoxon on Wednesday 21st October 19:30

Mat, yes indeed, it doesn't matter what the top figures are,,,it's the power coming on that gives you the gut feeling of excelleration, all the 5.0 I've been in are all much faster than my engine but,,,, as mine is really smooth upto 5400 revs it sort of gains a bit back at the top end, saying that I'm hoping I've got a broader torque curve now so maybe she's not so far off.

Your more likely to spin up the wheels as I can probably get better traction off a turn, 6 of this a half a dozen of that,,,

Other than that initial bang of power ,,, I've got a sneaky feeling my engine is right on the money even against a 5.0',,,,I'll tell ya later

[MPoxon]

ClassiChimi said:

Mat, yes indeed, it doesn't matter what the top figures are,,,it's the power coming on that gives you the gut feeling of excelleration, all the 5.0 I've been in are all much faster than my engine but,,,, as mine is really smooth upto 5400 revs it sort of gains a bit back at the top end, saying that I'm hoping I've got a broader torque curve now so maybe she's not so far off.

Not anymore Alun, same BHP as mine but more torque so yours is more powerful than my sorted 500 and has the same epic torque curve which makes the 500 cars feel proper quick. Really good result that!

My 500


Your 450

[QBee]

Pretty well the same BHP (300), and similar torque curve to mine. Nice one Alun, money well spent.
Be careful not to spoil it chasing numbers. If it was mine I would now put some miles on it as it is before making any more changes.

[ESDavey]

This is what you want ..... but can't agree more with the sentiment add fuel & enjoy. I went to Lake Como in June & that's when you realise how good a TVR really is ! (Yellow is after the MBE upgrade)

[ClassiChimi]

MPoxon said:

ClassiChimi said:

Mat, yes indeed, it doesn't matter what the top figures are,,,it's the power coming on that gives you the gut feeling of excelleration, all the 5.0 I've been in are all much faster than my engine but,,,, as mine is really smooth upto 5400 revs it sort of gains a bit back at the top end, saying that I'm hoping I've got a broader torque curve now so maybe she's not so far off.

Not anymore Alun, same BHP as mine but more torque so yours is more powerful than my sorted 500 and has the same epic torque curve which makes the 500 cars feel proper quick. Really good result that!

My 500


Your 450

Our graphs are very similar, but your torque comes in earlier, and higher for longer, that makes all the difference I reckon,

So a nice test drive,, holy flipping heck, fast, really pulling well in 5th,
Ragged it like a racing car then instantly pottered along and everything's brill, pops and should I say whip cracks out the exhaust,
Anthony,, you'll see it is very similar to your engine, hp, yes about the same,, ft-lbs,,, yours will feel like more,,

I've also fitted Protech shocks,,,duel adjust,,, so far there far better than my old ones,, even in damp conditions the car felt like I have more grip, town driving is far far better,
The last thing that matters hugely to me is I don't have to ride the clutch to negate the shunting,,
I can still feel the slightest hesitation here and there but it's now far more enjoyable to drive,,
Over a few years driving that's worth a few bob in my estimation alone

[roseytvr]

TV8 said:

Hi Ian, I was planning to track it this year! Life is definitely getting in the way lately and then foreign travels.

hopefully, it will be n track soon. I have taken it across France and Belgium a couple of times this summer, so it's not sat in the garage.

How is yours going?

Sat in the que at Doms awaiting an MBE if he has any left! Al, don't suppose you told him I was next? Mine has been running very well but unfortunately no one could get the fker through an MOT. So much for a "turn key" solution when I upgraded😡. So it's a second new ECU and wiring loom etc. Boy this modding malarkey gets expensive. Should have kept off this website and stuck with Sprint
No doubt I will feel better when Dom has sorted it

[ClassiChimi]

roseytvr said:

TV8 said:

Hi Ian, I was planning to track it this year! Life is definitely getting in the way lately and then foreign travels.

hopefully, it will be n track soon. I have taken it across France and Belgium a couple of times this summer, so it's not sat in the garage.

How is yours going?

Sat in the que at Doms awaiting an MBE if he has any left! Al, don't suppose you told him I was next? Mine has been running very well but unfortunately no one could get the fker through an MOT. So much for a "turn key" solution when I upgraded??. So it's a second new ECU and wiring loom etc. Boy this modding malarkey gets expensive. Should have kept off this website and stuck with Sprint
No doubt I will feel better when Dom has sorted it

I think I know the feeling your experiencing Ian, the waiting nearly blew my gaskets.... Again
He'll be on it soon enough mate.

[ClassiChimi]

MPoxon said:

My 500


Your 450

The more I look at these two graphs,,,
I have very good power at 2000 revs
The 500 pulls slightly more Bhp all the way up but when both engines are spinning from say 4900 to 5400 mines matching Mats,,
Same sort of thing with the torque, just that bit more grunt in the 500,,,
The 4.6 is forgiving though, it spins well, less vibration so may well pull those last few useable revs better than the 500,,,
Might be a bit better on downshifts too,,, easier.
As you can see,well matched on paper but in the real world the 500 is faster but with mine at this standard it's right there so I can't ask anymore,
I have a De Catt pipe on the floor,,,, looking at me I've used it before, Alex old one, I reckon there's as much as 20hp in it???
I just can't take the noise at 2000 revs,
Considering it's still got the cat, I'm really happy with the power output, how it drives, it's manners, no smell of petrol,
It's only the dogs bks so it is