Recommendations for Vauxhall injector suppliers...
Discussion
I bought eight off of eBay and then sent them to those injector cleaners near you Phil.
http://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/i.html?_odkw=&_osaca...
http://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/i.html?_odkw=&_osaca...
Edited by phazed on Friday 10th July 18:48
phazed said:
I bought eight off of eBay and then sent them to those injector cleaners near you Phil.
http://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/i.html?_odkw=&_osaca...
Snap.http://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/i.html?_odkw=&_osaca...
Edited by phazed on Friday 10th July 18:48
phazed said:
I bought eight off of eBay and then sent them to those injector cleaners near you Phil.
http://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/i.html?_odkw=&_osaca...
Who would they be?http://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/i.html?_odkw=&_osaca...
Edited by phazed on Friday 10th July 18:48
MrInjector have mailed me back and will do me a set of 8 delivered for £208.50 (so £26 each) ... off eBay they seem to be about £15 each plus a clean / service which has to be at least a tenner each, no?
Just thinking of throwing a set into the new build given that the current standard ones are running at over 90% even on the 4.0 and have done 130,000 miles...
Phil
Thanks Guys...
Looks like Injectortune are closed for three weeks (holidays I guess) and it looks like buying a couple of sets off eBay and getting them refurbed will be about the same price as buying them from MrInjector.
As I'm up against time on this one then I think easiest and quickest is MrI ... hopefully though this'll be a good clean and concise info pool for anyone Googling for this in the future
Cheers Fellas...
Phil
Looks like Injectortune are closed for three weeks (holidays I guess) and it looks like buying a couple of sets off eBay and getting them refurbed will be about the same price as buying them from MrInjector.
As I'm up against time on this one then I think easiest and quickest is MrI ... hopefully though this'll be a good clean and concise info pool for anyone Googling for this in the future
Cheers Fellas...
Phil
I did the Vectra injector swap way back in 2010, I wanted to replace the old Lucas disc type injectors with the more modern pintle type and it just so happened the Vectra injectors had more or less the same impedance as the Lucas jobbies.
James at InjectorTune charged me £160 to supply two sets of Vectra injectors that he reconditioned and flow matched as a set of 8. I ran these while I was still on the Lucas 14CUX, the car ran perfectly and no modifications were necessary at all.
A twin nozzle pintle injector like the Vectra ones offer an infinitely superior spray pattern and fuel atomisation compared with the prehistoric Lucas dribblers.
I did spend morning with Mark Adams shortly after fitting these injectors, the car was hunting a bit and TBH I thought he was going to map it, how wrong was I. Instead all he did was the normal base idle, throttle pot settings, butterfly opening, dynamic ignition timing, new plugs ect checks I'd already done myself anyway.
Chimpongas 1 - MA 0
As he could find nothing that needing adjustment he pitched me on the old "Your injectors need cleaning" scam, I say scam because I knew I had just fitted the far superior Vectra injectors, I said if you take them out and find them to be perfect I won't be paying you for the time.
To make my challenge fair I even presented him with the flow charts from InjectorTune and then asked him to put one of my Vecta injectors from each bank against two of his best Lucas disc types. On the injector test rig you could immediately see how much better the spray pattern was on the Vectra injectors compared with the spitting and dribbling Lucas ones, MA was forced to agree.
My Vecta injectors also flowed within 1% of each other, the Lucas ones were well out, MA quickly replaced my infinitely superior Vectra injectors and no more was said about it.
Chimpongas 2 - MA 0
The hunting remained, I said it sounds like an exhaust restriction and further more suspected the hunting was down to to a partially blocked main cat, MA flat disputed this saying the cats TVR used were extremely good quality
A few months later I went with my old school gut feeling and fully de-catted the car, the hunting completely vanished, throttle response was massively improved and the car felt like it had picked up 10hp.
Quality cats they may have been one day but it doesn't take a genius to see even a new cat is going to be a big restriction.
Chimpongas 3 - MA 0
TBH I think MA's knowledge is very one dimensional, this was further proved on the day when an Austin Healey came in running rough & idling high. Now I cut my teeth on these things so I calmly asked MA what he thought it was. I heard a lot of old tosh and smirked to myself, I then simply reached for the SU throttle spindles and gave them a wiggle in the bushes, "there's your problem Mark, she's sucking air down the spindles".
MA's jaw dropped, I think he was genuinely surprised I went straight to it, but anyone who's been around multi SU setups would have done the same, it wasn't exactly a magic trick but MA seemed to be very impressed. My view was quite honestly I don't want anyone working on my car that can't spot basics like that on very simplistic old school iron like an AH.
TBH I was not impressed with MA's lack back to basics diagnostic skills, perhaps his head has been stuck on the 14CUX so long he's lost his fundamental diagnostic skills, but based on the very simple AH challenge it honestly looked to me like he never had those skills in the first place.
Chimpongas 4 - MA 0
For everyone still on the 14CUX I recommend passing on MA's services, the mapping session I thought I was getting was nothing of the sort, so I recommend saving your money.
If your TVR is going to remain in a fairly standard state of tune I recommend the following instead:
If your TVR is going on a program of significant engine tuning ditching the 14CUX for a decent after market engine management system you can map yourself is definitely the way forward.
Moving on from the comedy MA 14CUX maping session I fitted the infinitely superior Canems system which allows you to really see whats going on, the Lloyd boys were very impressed as the duty cycle headroom the Vectra injectors give making them a proven improvement over the incontinent Lucas disc type efforts.
I believe Lloyd Specialist Developments have been using the Vectra injectors quite a bit ever since they'd seen what I'd done.
To help others the details of the Vectra injectors are as follows:
Disc type injectors are very quiet and robust but they are also very old technology, disc type injectors were only used on certain Jap cars and the RV8 Range Rover during the early 1990's, very soon pretty much all manufacturers shifted to pintle injectors and it's been like that ever since.
I'd also say while there are clear benefits for us all and even if you have a standard 4.0 lite, the Vectra injectors would be essential if your RV8 TVR is making any more than 300hp.
My 4.0 litre has no head work or fancy performance mods, but with these injectors, no cats, a fresh cam and the Canems system it makes an easy 250hp.
James at InjectorTune charged me £160 to supply two sets of Vectra injectors that he reconditioned and flow matched as a set of 8. I ran these while I was still on the Lucas 14CUX, the car ran perfectly and no modifications were necessary at all.
A twin nozzle pintle injector like the Vectra ones offer an infinitely superior spray pattern and fuel atomisation compared with the prehistoric Lucas dribblers.
I did spend morning with Mark Adams shortly after fitting these injectors, the car was hunting a bit and TBH I thought he was going to map it, how wrong was I. Instead all he did was the normal base idle, throttle pot settings, butterfly opening, dynamic ignition timing, new plugs ect checks I'd already done myself anyway.
Chimpongas 1 - MA 0
As he could find nothing that needing adjustment he pitched me on the old "Your injectors need cleaning" scam, I say scam because I knew I had just fitted the far superior Vectra injectors, I said if you take them out and find them to be perfect I won't be paying you for the time.
To make my challenge fair I even presented him with the flow charts from InjectorTune and then asked him to put one of my Vecta injectors from each bank against two of his best Lucas disc types. On the injector test rig you could immediately see how much better the spray pattern was on the Vectra injectors compared with the spitting and dribbling Lucas ones, MA was forced to agree.
My Vecta injectors also flowed within 1% of each other, the Lucas ones were well out, MA quickly replaced my infinitely superior Vectra injectors and no more was said about it.
Chimpongas 2 - MA 0
The hunting remained, I said it sounds like an exhaust restriction and further more suspected the hunting was down to to a partially blocked main cat, MA flat disputed this saying the cats TVR used were extremely good quality
A few months later I went with my old school gut feeling and fully de-catted the car, the hunting completely vanished, throttle response was massively improved and the car felt like it had picked up 10hp.
Quality cats they may have been one day but it doesn't take a genius to see even a new cat is going to be a big restriction.
Chimpongas 3 - MA 0
TBH I think MA's knowledge is very one dimensional, this was further proved on the day when an Austin Healey came in running rough & idling high. Now I cut my teeth on these things so I calmly asked MA what he thought it was. I heard a lot of old tosh and smirked to myself, I then simply reached for the SU throttle spindles and gave them a wiggle in the bushes, "there's your problem Mark, she's sucking air down the spindles".
MA's jaw dropped, I think he was genuinely surprised I went straight to it, but anyone who's been around multi SU setups would have done the same, it wasn't exactly a magic trick but MA seemed to be very impressed. My view was quite honestly I don't want anyone working on my car that can't spot basics like that on very simplistic old school iron like an AH.
TBH I was not impressed with MA's lack back to basics diagnostic skills, perhaps his head has been stuck on the 14CUX so long he's lost his fundamental diagnostic skills, but based on the very simple AH challenge it honestly looked to me like he never had those skills in the first place.
Chimpongas 4 - MA 0
For everyone still on the 14CUX I recommend passing on MA's services, the mapping session I thought I was getting was nothing of the sort, so I recommend saving your money.
If your TVR is going to remain in a fairly standard state of tune I recommend the following instead:
- Remove all the cats
- Ditch the dreadful NGK B7ECS replacing them with BPR6ES (or NGK BPR6EIX iridium plugs)
- Check and adjust your ignition timing
- Fit a new set of plug leads
- Check the continuity of your plug extenders and replace as necessary
- Better still ditch the dreadful extenders and wrap your plug ends
- Clean your air filter
- Set your base idle
- Adjust your throttle pot
- Check your throttle butterfly opens full an WOT
- Fit a fresh cam if deemed necessary
If your TVR is going on a program of significant engine tuning ditching the 14CUX for a decent after market engine management system you can map yourself is definitely the way forward.
Moving on from the comedy MA 14CUX maping session I fitted the infinitely superior Canems system which allows you to really see whats going on, the Lloyd boys were very impressed as the duty cycle headroom the Vectra injectors give making them a proven improvement over the incontinent Lucas disc type efforts.
I believe Lloyd Specialist Developments have been using the Vectra injectors quite a bit ever since they'd seen what I'd done.
To help others the details of the Vectra injectors are as follows:
- Opel/Vauxhall X18XE/X20XEV injectors (GM 90501588).
- Siemens OEM part no: 5WK90761
- 250cc 3bar 14.2 – 15.3 Ohm
Disc type injectors are very quiet and robust but they are also very old technology, disc type injectors were only used on certain Jap cars and the RV8 Range Rover during the early 1990's, very soon pretty much all manufacturers shifted to pintle injectors and it's been like that ever since.
I'd also say while there are clear benefits for us all and even if you have a standard 4.0 lite, the Vectra injectors would be essential if your RV8 TVR is making any more than 300hp.
My 4.0 litre has no head work or fancy performance mods, but with these injectors, no cats, a fresh cam and the Canems system it makes an easy 250hp.
Nicely added Dave ...
A friend runs a tuning company up in the Coventry area and he suggested that as I've done him and his business partner a few favours in the past then, once she's back and run in, I might take the old girl up to his place, pop it on the rolling road there and one of them would map it for me so I was just going to give us a bit more headroom on fueling beforehand.
(Just as an aside - he had a GTR up there recently that put out 1308hp *AT THE WHEELS*
https://video-lhr3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hvideo-xft1/v/t4...
You have to look pretty closely but you can just read 1308 in the green HP box...
)
A friend runs a tuning company up in the Coventry area and he suggested that as I've done him and his business partner a few favours in the past then, once she's back and run in, I might take the old girl up to his place, pop it on the rolling road there and one of them would map it for me so I was just going to give us a bit more headroom on fueling beforehand.
(Just as an aside - he had a GTR up there recently that put out 1308hp *AT THE WHEELS*
https://video-lhr3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hvideo-xft1/v/t4...
You have to look pretty closely but you can just read 1308 in the green HP box...
) 
Bassfiend229hp said:
Nicely added Dave ...
(Just as an aside - he had a GTR up there recently that put out 1308hp *AT THE WHEELS*
https://video-lhr3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hvideo-xft1/v/t4...
You have to look pretty closely but you can just read 1308 in the green HP box... )
(Just as an aside - he had a GTR up there recently that put out 1308hp *AT THE WHEELS*
https://video-lhr3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hvideo-xft1/v/t4...
You have to look pretty closely but you can just read 1308 in the green HP box...
) That's just Billy Bonkers Phil
Was it MA tuned and running the 14CUX?
Good luck with the engine build mate, keep us posted on the progress
Dave.
Hello Phil.
Be aware that if you go too large in terms of injector flow-rate it will be a challenge to get a nice smooth idle due to the extremely small injector openings (duty-cycle/ pulse-width) you will be commanding of the injector at idle. We currently use Bosch EV6 injectors for most RV8 TVR applications up to about 330bhp, these are usually about 250cc/min. We generally only use 330cc/min and above for forced induction applications - unless there is something you are not telling us!
Be aware that if you go too large in terms of injector flow-rate it will be a challenge to get a nice smooth idle due to the extremely small injector openings (duty-cycle/ pulse-width) you will be commanding of the injector at idle. We currently use Bosch EV6 injectors for most RV8 TVR applications up to about 330bhp, these are usually about 250cc/min. We generally only use 330cc/min and above for forced induction applications - unless there is something you are not telling us!
drlloyd said:
Hello Phil.
Be aware that if you go too large in terms of injector flow-rate it will be a challenge to get a nice smooth idle due to the extremely small injector openings (duty-cycle/ pulse-width) you will be commanding of the injector at idle. We currently use Bosch EV6 injectors for most RV8 TVR applications up to about 330bhp, these are usually about 250cc/min. We generally only use 330cc/min and above for forced induction applications - unless there is something you are not telling us!
Monseiur!Be aware that if you go too large in terms of injector flow-rate it will be a challenge to get a nice smooth idle due to the extremely small injector openings (duty-cycle/ pulse-width) you will be commanding of the injector at idle. We currently use Bosch EV6 injectors for most RV8 TVR applications up to about 330bhp, these are usually about 250cc/min. We generally only use 330cc/min and above for forced induction applications - unless there is something you are not telling us!
- chuckle* Already placed an order for the Vectra ones this morning - found those on eBay and they looked like they could be fun but wasn't a serious thought ... yet.
At least now I have "The French POS" which means that when the Tiv is broken then it's not a rush to get her back on the road.
(It also doubles as a mobile shed as it's become a permanent store for all the bits for the Brembo conversion including the two 'new' 16" wheels with new tyres - I really should have had those wheels refurbed before I got the new rubber on them!)
The build itself is going quite glacially slowly - but I can't complain as it's mainly being done on the back of a lot of favours as spare time, finances, friends other work commitments - and their family commitments - allow ... plus it's been a lot more work than expected.
The heads (well, the valve guides) were shot and while the heads had had a chunk of effort done on porting them (as you'd said) they were still ickle valve heads so they've had to be replaced as we don't have the facilities to do anything with them, some of the cam followers were showing signs of wear so that's been changed too, the clutch was worn enough that it wasn't worth re-using, oil pump has been changed and the 'new' gearbox has finally been picked up and is awaiting going in too ... the only moving parts in there that are being carried over / have survived from the old engine are the pushrods and rocker assemblies!
Phil
jojackson4 said:
R these the puppies
http://pages.ebay.com/link/?nav=item.view&alt=...
You're looking for the following part numbers...http://pages.ebay.com/link/?nav=item.view&alt=...
90501588 / 5WK90761
Phil
drlloyd said:
We currently use Bosch EV6 injectors for most RV8 TVR applications up to about 330bhp, these are usually about 250cc/min.
I'd be looking to follow the Lloyd boys lead here given their knowledge & expertise in all things injection.I had a quick look on EBay and it seems you can get a set of 8 reconditioned Bosch EV6 injectors for £114 all in.
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/131473505675?_trksid=p20...
EV6 is just a body style I believe so people need to make sure they're buying the right injectors, encouragingly the listing refers directly to the Range Rover Classic and confirms they have the right slots for our rail clips.
The spec is...
Bosch EV6
15 Ohm HIGH IMPEDANCE type
215cc @ 3 bar (so not has much the 250cc as with the Vectra ones)
Bosch Part Number 0 280 155 746
While they do come all the way from Portuagal, they are also very good value.
In fact they look ideal for those that don't need 250cc.
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