Discussion
I'm running out of things to replace on my car 
Fuel pump must be the original... Why change it, it's been working for 15 years,,,, I might just leave it alone and carry a new spare,
What's the pump off again. Is it hard to get hold of or is there any other makes that would be a better choice as a replacement. I've been hearing a little wurring noise when I first start engine, can't be sure where it's coming from, very faint sound, could even be related to the new Ecu install, fuel regulator, it comes and gioes but it sounds like a little electric motor on its way out!
Any ideas ?
Edited to add,,, the more I think about it the more I think the noise is from the left hand side of the engine bay/ battery area, so could be totally unrelated to fuel pump.
Still is there a funkie well known replacement fuel pump that's recommended or just stick with the original equipment ?
Cheers Alun
Fuel pump must be the original... Why change it, it's been working for 15 years,,,, I might just leave it alone and carry a new spare,
What's the pump off again. Is it hard to get hold of or is there any other makes that would be a better choice as a replacement. I've been hearing a little wurring noise when I first start engine, can't be sure where it's coming from, very faint sound, could even be related to the new Ecu install, fuel regulator, it comes and gioes but it sounds like a little electric motor on its way out!
Any ideas ?
Edited to add,,, the more I think about it the more I think the noise is from the left hand side of the engine bay/ battery area, so could be totally unrelated to fuel pump.
Still is there a funkie well known replacement fuel pump that's recommended or just stick with the original equipment ?
Cheers Alun
Edited by ClassiChimi on Sunday 30th August 22:03
http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...
Alun, - surely that's just the ECU, relays and fuel pump priming. They all do that Sir!
The link above takes you to a great wiki with all parts on it
Alun, - surely that's just the ECU, relays and fuel pump priming. They all do that Sir!
The link above takes you to a great wiki with all parts on it
Your fuel pump will usually loudly tell you it needs replacing and a good while before it actually dies.
Listen out for screaming sound, in fact you needn't listen out for it as the sound is usually very loud and impossible to ignore.
If your pump isn't screaming concentrate on making sure it's getting enough amps as the way TVR wired it wasn't particularly great, the terminals are also very exposed under the car so subjected to quite a harsh environment.
Remember the fuel flowing through the pump actually cools and lubricates it, therefore the worst thing you can do to a high pressure fuel injection pump is run it dry.
Bosch make the best high pressure fuel injection pumps period, personally I wouldn't fit anything else but you do need to be careful not to buy a fake as there are loads out there.
If you did replace the pump the standard Chimaera spec one is perfectly adequate, remember the fuel pressure at the rail is governed by the fuel pressure regulator, even a standard Chimaera fuel pump will provide more pressure than you could ever wish for.
Volume is a different story, while all high pressure fuel injection petrol pumps will easily maintain 3 Bar of pressure in any car it's the volume demand that changes as engine size/power increases.
A TVR Cerbera pump for example needs to shift enough volume of fuel to feed a 400hp AJP V8, so TVR fitted a higher volume pump than they used on the Chimaera & Griffith.
You can fit a Cerbera pump to a Chimaera and because the fuel pressure regulator maintains the correct fuel pressure it'll work just fine, however, fit a Chimaera fuel pump to a Cerbera and you may just find it cant shift enough fuel to feed that mighty AJP V8 when you're really pressing on.
The other advantage of a higher volume fuel pump is fuel cooling, because the pump is able to shift a greater volume of fuel it tends to run a bit cooler itself, but more importantly it's able to circulate a greater volume of fuel through the fuel tank which on a feed & return injection system like ours acts as a heat sink.
The cool fuel in your fuel tank is actually drawing heat out of the petrol that's been put there by the engine and the pump, this cooling effect is more important than people realise.
On my LPG conversion I still run the fuel pump to keep the petrol circulating even if I'm driving on gas, if I didn't do this the petrol would soon boil in the injector rail and changes back to petrol would end in an engine stall.
But I still found my small 5 gallon petrol tank which normally only has about 3 gallons in it and sometimes falls as low as half a gallon, was doing a rather poor job of cooling my petrol which was causing petrol vaporisation issues at the injector rail.
To solve the problem I fitted a fuel cooler and uprated the fuel pump to a Cerbera one that shifts a greater volume of fuel, both combined to cool the fuel sufficiently to solve the problem.
To test all this on your own car simply run your fuel low in your standard 12.5 gallon TVR petrol tank on a hot day and drive the car in traffic, then open the boot and feel your tank. You'll be absolutely amazed how hot it is to the touch, you're actually feeling how hot the fuel is and that aint good for a lot of reasons.
At this point your fuel pump may start to scream as it cavitates (fuel vaporises, pump starts trying to pump petrol vapour) and hot re-starts can become very fluffy and stuttering indeed.
Keeping the fuel cool and circulating strongly while never running your pump dry is why it's always a good idea to always keep the fuel tank half full if you can, that body of cooler fuel in the tank will really help keep the system temps where they need to be.
But if your fuel pump is working and it's not too noisy, the best things you can do to ensure reliability and correct operation are:
1. Ensure the terminals are well protected with rubber terminal boots, use a smear of Vaseline on the terminals too
2. Make sure the pump is getting sufficient amps, so well worth doing voltage and amp drop tests on it
Listen out for screaming sound, in fact you needn't listen out for it as the sound is usually very loud and impossible to ignore.
If your pump isn't screaming concentrate on making sure it's getting enough amps as the way TVR wired it wasn't particularly great, the terminals are also very exposed under the car so subjected to quite a harsh environment.
Remember the fuel flowing through the pump actually cools and lubricates it, therefore the worst thing you can do to a high pressure fuel injection pump is run it dry.
Bosch make the best high pressure fuel injection pumps period, personally I wouldn't fit anything else but you do need to be careful not to buy a fake as there are loads out there.
If you did replace the pump the standard Chimaera spec one is perfectly adequate, remember the fuel pressure at the rail is governed by the fuel pressure regulator, even a standard Chimaera fuel pump will provide more pressure than you could ever wish for.
Volume is a different story, while all high pressure fuel injection petrol pumps will easily maintain 3 Bar of pressure in any car it's the volume demand that changes as engine size/power increases.
A TVR Cerbera pump for example needs to shift enough volume of fuel to feed a 400hp AJP V8, so TVR fitted a higher volume pump than they used on the Chimaera & Griffith.
You can fit a Cerbera pump to a Chimaera and because the fuel pressure regulator maintains the correct fuel pressure it'll work just fine, however, fit a Chimaera fuel pump to a Cerbera and you may just find it cant shift enough fuel to feed that mighty AJP V8 when you're really pressing on.
The other advantage of a higher volume fuel pump is fuel cooling, because the pump is able to shift a greater volume of fuel it tends to run a bit cooler itself, but more importantly it's able to circulate a greater volume of fuel through the fuel tank which on a feed & return injection system like ours acts as a heat sink.
The cool fuel in your fuel tank is actually drawing heat out of the petrol that's been put there by the engine and the pump, this cooling effect is more important than people realise.
On my LPG conversion I still run the fuel pump to keep the petrol circulating even if I'm driving on gas, if I didn't do this the petrol would soon boil in the injector rail and changes back to petrol would end in an engine stall.
But I still found my small 5 gallon petrol tank which normally only has about 3 gallons in it and sometimes falls as low as half a gallon, was doing a rather poor job of cooling my petrol which was causing petrol vaporisation issues at the injector rail.
To solve the problem I fitted a fuel cooler and uprated the fuel pump to a Cerbera one that shifts a greater volume of fuel, both combined to cool the fuel sufficiently to solve the problem.
To test all this on your own car simply run your fuel low in your standard 12.5 gallon TVR petrol tank on a hot day and drive the car in traffic, then open the boot and feel your tank. You'll be absolutely amazed how hot it is to the touch, you're actually feeling how hot the fuel is and that aint good for a lot of reasons.
At this point your fuel pump may start to scream as it cavitates (fuel vaporises, pump starts trying to pump petrol vapour) and hot re-starts can become very fluffy and stuttering indeed.
Keeping the fuel cool and circulating strongly while never running your pump dry is why it's always a good idea to always keep the fuel tank half full if you can, that body of cooler fuel in the tank will really help keep the system temps where they need to be.
But if your fuel pump is working and it's not too noisy, the best things you can do to ensure reliability and correct operation are:
1. Ensure the terminals are well protected with rubber terminal boots, use a smear of Vaseline on the terminals too
2. Make sure the pump is getting sufficient amps, so well worth doing voltage and amp drop tests on it
I get all that Dave, yep I've just realised its a Bosch and my cars fairly standard so the standard pump is more than adequate. When I was on Cux, I used to get very high fuel temp readings!
My fuel pump works fine, I'm amassing quite a pile of spare parts,,, sometimes replacing something before it goes bang is a good idea as you now have a new part and a working spare.
that's got to be man maths at its best 
My fuel pump works fine, I'm amassing quite a pile of spare parts,,, sometimes replacing something before it goes bang is a good idea as you now have a new part and a working spare.
that's got to be man maths at its best 
ClassiChimi said:
When I was on Cux, I used to get very high fuel temp readings!
And you probably still have high fuel temps, we all have as it's a TVR and Rv8 trait.The 14CUX is really rather clever in having a petrol temp sensor and correction, I don't have this on my Canems system, I do however have fuel temp correction on LPG.
I doubt you have petrol temp correction on your MBE either, but lets not kid ourselves here Lucas put the fuel temp sender there for a reason so it's one of the few point scores for the old 14CUX system.
But I digress
The reason your fuel pump sounds different since the ECU change is likely down to it's wiring having been changed/improved, it's highly likely Dom fully understands that the TVR efforts to wire the fuel pump were a bit marginal and just took the opportunity to do a better job of it when the new ECU was fitted.
This is what Lloyd Specialist Developments do and it makes perfect sense that Dom and his team would do the same, your fuel pump may sound noisier/different now simply by virtue of the fact its receiving the full serving of amps for the first time in it's life.
You could simply be hearing the effects of another improvement brought about by moving to a more modern and better wired engine management system
The pump on my Cerbera went bang (or rather went silent and stopped) at about 15years old with no warning whatsoever. There was no warning noise at all it just stopped. I had replaced the output pipe about a week earlier but the car had been out three times and done more than 50 miles. I suspect that some grot or rust inside the pump was disturbed and just seized it up.
I removed the pump to re powder coat the retaining bracket about 16 months ago, the wiring at that time looked good( virtue of huge oil leaks) me thinks
I made sure I had good connections etc, I will ask Dom but it's never played up.
That little noise is new, it's defo from the front end now that I've had a listen, 90% of the time I can't hear it.
I'm sure it's just the new workings Dave,
On many occasions I've heard you explaining the virtues of a modern engine management system,,,, until you have it you can't imagine the difference, words like reliable, mappable, decent diagnostics, better road manners,,,,
Just words on paper,,,,,
But when those things become reality and your car seems to take on a new life,,, re born, re energised, I'm sure everytime I look at the car she's purring under her breath,
I didn't know a thing about Chimaera's until I got one,,, been through pain to get her this far,,,, the only thing I ever needed to do was replace the bloody Ecu,
I made sure I had good connections etc, I will ask Dom but it's never played up.
That little noise is new, it's defo from the front end now that I've had a listen, 90% of the time I can't hear it.
I'm sure it's just the new workings Dave,
On many occasions I've heard you explaining the virtues of a modern engine management system,,,, until you have it you can't imagine the difference, words like reliable, mappable, decent diagnostics, better road manners,,,,
Just words on paper,,,,,
But when those things become reality and your car seems to take on a new life,,, re born, re energised, I'm sure everytime I look at the car she's purring under her breath,
I didn't know a thing about Chimaera's until I got one,,, been through pain to get her this far,,,, the only thing I ever needed to do was replace the bloody Ecu,
Replacing components before they fail is simply good maintenance, a car is just a collection of parts that are either wearing out through use or degrading to the point of failure through age.
The trick is to stay one step ahead of the game by replacing components before they fail unexpectedly leaving you in a real pickle at the side of the road.
The problem is it can be very difficult to accurately predict the point at which any component is likely to fail so it's far better to er on the side of caution. If you want to see how this type of maintenance has been taken to the very highest level just look at the aerospace industry.
The maintenance schedule of an airplane is insanely over cautions and includes the religious replacement of components to a book that is double and triple checked by a team of engineers that cross check everyone's work, it is then spot checked by the Civil Aviation Authority.
This is because if you break down in an aircraft you can't just coast to the side of the road, you tend instead to fall out of the sky which can be a very uncomfortable experience indeed
For preventive maintenance I would say replacing your 20 year old fuel pump is a very good idea, and is one of the reasons I replaced mine and chose a genuine Bosch one, I now know it should be good for another 15 years at least.
To make things even better I also recommend you add a pre-pump filter rather than just relying on the gauze one on the pickup in the tank.
It all helps to keep the old girl flying
The trick is to stay one step ahead of the game by replacing components before they fail unexpectedly leaving you in a real pickle at the side of the road.
The problem is it can be very difficult to accurately predict the point at which any component is likely to fail so it's far better to er on the side of caution. If you want to see how this type of maintenance has been taken to the very highest level just look at the aerospace industry.
The maintenance schedule of an airplane is insanely over cautions and includes the religious replacement of components to a book that is double and triple checked by a team of engineers that cross check everyone's work, it is then spot checked by the Civil Aviation Authority.
This is because if you break down in an aircraft you can't just coast to the side of the road, you tend instead to fall out of the sky which can be a very uncomfortable experience indeed
For preventive maintenance I would say replacing your 20 year old fuel pump is a very good idea, and is one of the reasons I replaced mine and chose a genuine Bosch one, I now know it should be good for another 15 years at least.
To make things even better I also recommend you add a pre-pump filter rather than just relying on the gauze one on the pickup in the tank.
It all helps to keep the old girl flying
Great advice there,,,
I've been looking on the map, south of France, etc you need a reliable car!
My mate flew out of Bruningthorpe very early yesterday in a light aircraft he hires,,, he told me they had all the engine covers off to get it started
I've flown loads of times,,, they ain't called (light aircraft ) for nothing?.. Without that motor turning the front end becomes a brick!,,,in wind,,,,, not good!
Great fun though.
I'll source a Bosch pump
I've been looking on the map, south of France, etc you need a reliable car!
My mate flew out of Bruningthorpe very early yesterday in a light aircraft he hires,,, he told me they had all the engine covers off to get it started
I've flown loads of times,,, they ain't called (light aircraft ) for nothing?.. Without that motor turning the front end becomes a brick!,,,in wind,,,,, not good!
Great fun though.
I'll source a Bosch pump
ClassiChimi said:
I've been hearing a little wurring noise when I first start engine, can't be sure where it's coming from, very faint sound, it comes and goes but it sounds like a little electric motor on its way out!
Any ideas ?
Edited by ClassiChimi on Sunday 30th August 22:03
......STEPPER MOTOR?......
TJC46 said:
ClassiChimi said:
I've been hearing a little wurring noise when I first start engine, can't be sure where it's coming from, very faint sound, it comes and goes but it sounds like a little electric motor on its way out!
Any ideas ?
Edited by ClassiChimi on Sunday 30th August 22:03
......STEPPER MOTOR?......ClassiChimi said:
It's defo from the front end now that I've had a listen
Does the MBE system retain the old Lucas stepper motor or use the more common, reliable and readily available Bosch 2 wire unit as used on the Canems installations?Gassing Station | Chimaera | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff