Tremec TR-6060 Gearbox

[ChimpOnGas]

macdeb said:

Hi Dave
Just to add, my TKO 600 conversion cost around £3k with me doing the work and the right box coming up at reasonable cost. That included a McLeod twin plate [rated 800hp]clutch and steel flywheel. You know how light it is. The non-spring plates are only an issue [bit of a rattle] if you labour the car in 5th at or below 1500 revs [why would you, I don't drive like that]. There are two sets of ratios fitted to the TKO600, the one set are near as identical to the T5 and the other has longer 5th [which I think someone commented on] and was not for me. A TKO660 would be nice having the 6th gear and a slick change as Quinney says but as I've huge torque, I shall be changing my diff' over the winter for a 308. If you do change, I'd weigh up costs of modifying existing bellhousing, 'twas what I did.
Keep us posted

Edited by macdeb on Tuesday 29th September 18:34

Nice one Mac

macdeb said:

Phuck! just spat my beer out over the keyboard reading that.

PS.... don't waste good beer mate

[neal1980]

Hi COG

I say TR6060 all the way, I have one in mine and its AMAZING!!!!!!!!!!

The gear change is awesome and you know your good for 1000bhp.

Look at parts world that's were mine came from. (they were on offer once if I told you the price I paid you would cry)

I wouldn't even mess around with anything other than a McLeod twin plate I made the mistake of not getting one now I'm saving up for one before my one leg becomes massssivvveee!!!

Good Luck was good to meet you at last.

Neal

[Boosted LS1]

When I had to choose a clutch I to had an RV8 turbo, a 4.8 and later a 5.0. There was nothing organic, street friendly on the market that seemingly could cope with the torque. At first I fitted a RR flywheel and clutch as that had extra friction area but it wasn't good enough. The Mcleod was the only option available if I didn't want a paddle clutch and those are awful in traffic. My Mcleod was probably a 10.5 inch item and due to the depth of the package I had to put 3 slots into the bell housing which I then plated over. ioirc that clutch was rated to over 1000 lbs ft tq. It may even have been chevy based. It had 3 levers instead of the usual 'fingers'. It cost me an arm and a leg to get it sorted but it was the dogs danglies. Oh, I also had to drill part way into the RR ring gear to mount it but that was never a problem. The Mcleod also has marcel strips inside the friction plates so it's very street friendly when engaging. You do have to set them up with feeler guages if you want them to work properly otherwise things may be to loose.

Edited by Boosted LS1 on Tuesday 29th September 20:28

[Alexdaredevils]

neal1980 said:

Hi COG

I say TR6060 all the way, I have one in mine and its AMAZING!!!!!!!!!!

The gear change is awesome and you know your good for 1000bhp.

Look at parts world that's were mine came from. (they were on offer once if I told you the price I paid you would cry)

I wouldn't even mess around with anything other than a McLeod twin plate I made the mistake of not getting one now I'm saving up for one before my one leg becomes massssivvveee!!!

Good Luck was good to meet you at last.

Neal

This....

I got one as well

They do a 7 speed version

http://www.superchevy.com/how-to/transmission/1307...


If i had mine time again to choose, id go auto and flappy paddles

Edited by Alexdaredevils on Tuesday 29th September 20:33

[QBee]

Having had a few German cars with auto boxes and flappy puddles......the worst was a Merc where it changed gear about 4 seconds after you hit the tit. None have been Ferrari fast.
Do the Chevy systems perform at F1 speeds?

[Hoofa]

Really cannot be arsed for a war n peace reply

Tried helix and its pants , twin plate McLeod nice and light spot on, really don't know what beef you have with the T5 even with existing linkage , it's like if it ain't broke why fix it, new plastic bushes and do ever think driving oh I need a different tail on this, err no, too busy enjoying waves of effortless torque and smoothness thanks to supercharger, motec800, and sequential injection which seams to be by passing a lot of you

Edited by Hoofa on Tuesday 29th September 21:31

Edited by Hoofa on Tuesday 29th September 21:32

[phazed]

Hoofa said:

Really cannot be arsed for a war n peace reply

Tried helix and its pants , twin plate McLeod nice and light spot one, really don't know what beef you have with the T5 even with existing linkage , it's like if it ain't broke why fix it, new plastic bushes and do ever think driving oh I need a different tail on this, err no, too busy enjoying waves of effortless torque and smoothness thanks to supercharger, motec800, and sequential injection which seams to be buy passing a lot of you

Agreed you haven't had any problems Nigel.

That's good to hear and I may never have any problems with the T5.

I am absolutely sure that's my car gets far more aggressive use then yours and my worry is at sometime in the future the gearbox will just let go. If I am wrong, then that's a good thing for a lot of people.

What have you had done to your T5 gearbox, have you had it strengthened or any parts upgraded in anyway.

Always good to hear another side to the story.

[ChimpOnGas]

neal1980 said:

Hi COG

I say TR6060 all the way, I have one in mine and its AMAZING!!!!!!!!!!

The gear change is awesome and you know your good for 1000bhp.

Look at parts world that's were mine came from. (they were on offer once if I told you the price I paid you would cry)

I wouldn't even mess around with anything other than a McLeod twin plate I made the mistake of not getting one now I'm saving up for one before my one leg becomes massssivvveee!!!

Good Luck was good to meet you at last.

Neal

Cheers Neal, nice to meet you too mate, and the rest of you mega horse power nutters . I feel like the new nerdy LPG kid who's just been accepted by the cool set

Looks like I've got to find £2160 for a 6060 including tax & delivery from Partsworld Performance.

http://www.partsworldperformance.com/tr-6060-six-s...

Actually I had no idea there were so many options



Then there's what seems like the no-brainer McLeod twin plate clutch option (yes I'm listening boys).

Is this what I need?

http://www.summitracing.com/int/parts/mcl-6911-02

If so it's £700 delivered from Summit Racing with all taxes paid using the IParcel system.

So that's £700 plus £2160, making it £2,860 before fitting and maybe a nice light flywheel if I can stretch to it.

http://www.v8tuner.co.uk/product.php?id=445

Lets see what the Lloyd boys quote me to squeeze it in and do the necessary exhaust mods to make it all fit

[Hoofa]

Yep I had the quaife internals, I might have never needed them but who knows the limits when pushing the power envelope, I also went with the upgraded selector forks and shot peened the gear set. If out and out performance is your goal then maybe the different gearbox would be worth it and cheaper. That's said nothing wrong with the t5 and for some it's worked out fine

Edited by Hoofa on Tuesday 29th September 21:39

[NickOrangeTVR]

ChimpOnGas said:

The only other comments I've had on clutches was when I asked Orange Nick (my dad built it) on FaceBook what he thought of his triple plate Super Clutch which I'm damn certain is just a re-branded Quarter Master triple plate from the USA.

Orange Nick (Superchargers are best) simply said it probably wasn't what you'd want around town, which I took as meaning at was a ferocious gabby barsteward

It is VERY grabby when it gets warm - but it's totally indestructible, and very very short throw for on the track and still light compared to standard AP clutch. So definitely not for long drives - but perfect on the track.

And no it's not a quartermaster.

[ChimpOnGas]

NickOrangeTVR said:

ChimpOnGas said:

The only other comments I've had on clutches was when I asked Orange Nick (my dad built it) on FaceBook what he thought of his triple plate Super Clutch which I'm damn certain is just a re-branded Quarter Master triple plate from the USA.

Orange Nick (Superchargers are best) simply said it probably wasn't what you'd want around town, which I took as meaning at was a ferocious gabby barsteward

It is VERY grabby when it gets warm - but it's totally indestructible, and very very short throw for on the track and still light compared to standard AP clutch. So definitely not for long drives - but perfect on the track.

And no it's not a quartermaster.

Not for me then Orange Nick, but thanks for your contribution

[SILICONEKID345HP]

Is that going to bolt straight on to the Rover engine ? what is the gearing rom 1st to sixth compared to the T5 5 speed ?

[Boosted LS1]

Massive. :-)

[ChimpOnGas]

SILICONEKID345HP said:

Is that going to bolt straight on to the Rover engine ? what is the gearing rom 1st to sixth compared to the T5 5 speed ?

Ok this one is specially for Daz as I know how much he loves my spreadsheet presentations


From my research there seem to be three gear ratio options offered with the 6060, which look like this next to the BW T5 as fitted to our cars.




Based on 2,500 rpm and my 3.77 diff here's what the 6060 (ratio option 1) would look like on 'Ol Gasbag's' current rear tyres, as we can see my normal cruising velocity of 82 mph is as near as damn it achieved with the engine turning at 2.5k in sixth gear.




Now lets look at what I have now with my T5 at the same 2,500 rpm engine speed...




Finally lets look at how fast my engine needs to spin with my current T5 if I want to achieve that same 81.78 mph cruising speed ...




So that's all pretty clear to me, if I want to cruise at around 82 mph I can knock a massive 726 rpm of my engine speed by having a Tremec TR-6060 and using it's sixth gear rather than my T5s fifth gear.

The same engine running at 2,500 rpm vs one spinning at 3,226 rpm to achieve the same road speed will use a good slug less fuel. I totally understand there's wind resistance at play but this research suggests such a reduction in engine speed could easily deliver as much as a 10% improvement at my chosen cruising gate...

http://www.metrompg.com/posts/rpm-mpg.htm

That means if I'm sucking LPG at 22 mpg at 82 mph which is about right from my tests, 'Ol Gasbag' will be able to achieve an excellent 24.2 mpg with the new six speed box. That takes me from my current petrol cost equivalent of 49.67 mpg to an astonishing 54.64 mpg, not bad for a 4.0 litre V8 rolling along at a steady 82 mph

It will also be quieter and more refined which means I will cover more miles before the wife starts moaning and demanding a stop as we romp through France

And lets not forget an extra 2.2 mpg adds another 30.8 miles to the car's touring range too

With the added gear shift quality benefits the Tremec TR-6060 delivers plus the opportunity to get a far nicer and lighter clutch, I'm sure this six speed gearbox will be my latest modification of choice.

Cost permitting of course

Finally and just for fun here's what happens with the theoretical top speed of 'Ol Gasbag' when I bring that sixth cog into play at 6,000 rpm.



Yes folks 'Ol Gasbag's' top speed goes from 152 mph to an easy 196 mph

I'll be testing that one in a vacuum near you soon

[QBee]

I'd be choosing Option 2 out of those - close to the current T5 ratios in third and fourth, but first and second are higher ratios than the T5.
I find the current first and second a little low.
I also find the gap between second and third bigger than desirable, especially when changing down quickly on a track day.
I have been known to exit the track in the opposite direction to that intended when grabbing a change down to second at the last moment and not matching the revs correctly.
It simply locks the rear axle and sends you off in whichever direction the car is most unbalanced.

[phazed]

I need to teach you to heal and toe.

[ChimpOnGas]

QBee said:

I'd be choosing Option 2 out of those - close to the current T5 ratios in third and fourth, but first and second are higher ratios than the T5. I find the current first and second a little low. I also find the gap between second and third bigger than desirable, especially when changing down quickly on a track day.

I take your point Anthony and at first I found myself agreeing with your preference for Option 2, well in gears 1-5 anyway.

But it's not quite as straightforward as it first seems.

What concerns me is how tall sixth gear is on Option 2 which would have the engine turning over at a very low 2,022 rpm when I'm trying to hold my 82 mph on the motorway, I'm not so sure 'Ol Gasbag' might start to struggle a bit to hold that speed if the motorway starts to rise up a gentle inline.

I'm sure even 'Ol Gasbag' has enough puff to push through the significant wind blast at 82 mph at 2,022 rpm on the flat, but essentially when the flow of traffic inevitably slows even a fraction (which happens more frequently than you realise) there's no where to go other than down to fifth.

With Option 1 'Ol Gasbag' would stay in sixth longer, on the motorway you tend to find yourself being forced to slow as low as 65 mph quite frequently usually because someone is overtaking something very slow in the slow lane and everything just a fraction faster moves over one lane. This usually only lasts a few seconds before everyone returns to their correct lane and I'm free to push back up to 82 again.

What I like about Option 1 was that I could modulate my cruising speed simply on the throttle like an auto while staying in sixth and avoiding the need to drop to fifth, in theory with Option 1's 0.62 sixth I could perform this trick over a very practical band of typical motorway speeds making for a very flexibly and relaxed car.

With Option 1 'Ol Gasbag' can drop to 65 mph while staying in sixth as the engine will still be spinning at 2,000 rpm, that's a fast enough engine speed to allow me to gently bring the speed back up to 82 mph where I'll be back doing 2,500 rpm again.

If I went with Option 2 and traffic slowed to 65mph the poor engine will be lugging along at a far too low 1,600 rpm and that would be too cruel on the old girl forcing a down change. I think what I'll find with Option 2 is that I'll be doing a lot of 6th to 5th changes and back up to 6th again and all that cog swapping on the motorway kind of defeats the purpose of fitting a six speed box.

In all other gears I agree Option 2 might be the ratio package of choice, but when you look at how tall sixth is and what tends to happen in the real world when cruising on the motorway then the 0.62 sixth gear ratio on Option 1 is going to offer far better flexibility, and don't forget it still knocks a massive 726 rpm off my current T5 engine speed at my 82 mph cruising speed.

If I had a mighty LS engine with over 400 ft/lbs torque I wouldn't think twice about Option 2, but this is 'Ol Gasbag' were talking about here, and with only 260 ft/lbs on tap I think Option 1 would prove far more suitable.

With Option 1 4th & 5th gears are exactly the same ratios as my current T5 all that really changes is the first three ratios are slightly lower and I get a taller but not too tall 6th gear for cruising on the motorway. And those lower first three cogs could have advantages in town as often I find myself swapping between my currently too low 2nd and lugging along in 3rd which at 20ish mph is a bit cruel on the engine.

The way I see it the 1.43 3rd gear ratio of Option 1 will allow me to cruise through towns again like an auto in just that gear while simply modulating my speed using just the throttle.

So on the street (motorway & town) and based on 'Ol Gasbag's' modest power and torque outputs it seems pretty conclusive to me I would definitely be better off going with Option 1

[gacksen]

if it is for the sake of putting one in there you go with a CR T5 longer 5th.
in case there would be an LS or maxed out nitrous system or fully done turbo
in it makes sense due torque increase. otherwise T5 seems to be a proven unit
but i know it to well if you need something then you have to have it

T5 CR box from gearboxman

Close ratio kit gearing:
1st: 2.527:1
2nd: 1.675:1
3rd: 1.259:1
4th: 1:1
5th: 0.63:1 longer 5th ......

based on my experience driving 5th gear on the autobahn with high traffic
is senseless as you shift down to 4th or in your case to 5th all the time
as revs drop below 2000rpm. inner town driing is done either in 3rd or 4th
and will be the same with a 6 speed box. only gain is a 5th gear with 0.80 ratio.

before doing all that would think about putting an electric waterpump in the car that
holds your temp steady at 90C as on longer trips your water temp will drop and your
car is starting to put more fuel in it as ecu thinks youre warming up. this will save
fuel on the easy and cheap side. hook up your laptop and you will see what i am talking about

[NickOrangeTVR]

On subject of choice between various Tremec solutions this article is really worth reading in full - http://etereman.com/blog/transmission-care/how-to-...

Due to the fact ours is going in a Cerbera + LS3 - and is 100% for the track we went for the TKO 600 as only 5 speed is required (the 6th gear on the T56 is very tall) - as the ratios very much match the requirements of the track.

quoted from the Article -

etereman said:

"They also make a second version of the TKO 600 referred to as a Road Race unit. It has the same gear ratios in 1st through 4th gear but the 5thgear ratio is changed to 0.82. This transmission is designed to keep the motor in a much tighter rpm range which is ideal for auto crossing or road racing."

[BoostedChim]

ChimpOnGas said:

Based on 2,500 rpm and my 3.77 diff....

Have you changed your diff to speed 6 one? I thought chim and griff diffs were 3.46.