I really need to sort the hot start snag out......garages SW

I really need to sort the hot start snag out......garages SW

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Discussion

JimTC

270 posts

216 months

Tuesday 16th February 2016
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QBee said:
Two possible causes of your ongoing problem:

1. Inadequate or worn out wiring from the battery to the starter motor - it degrades over time and with the heat of the engine and gearbox, over which it passes. Rep[lace the cable and hey presto, problem solved
2. Wrongly wired, and now knackered, immobiliser. TVR wired the ruddy thing wrongly in the first place, and once you get to your stage of the hot start problem, it frankly means you need tom replace the immobiliser.

For 1, yes, Neil Garner comes with a lot of good reports.
For 2, Carl Baker (www.tvruk.tv) is your man, though others can do a similar job. He replaces the immobiliser, or the entire system, with one he has developed with Meta, and you never have the problem again. He used to be south of Guildford, but these days he resides in south west france. Your choice is either to stay in his gite in SW France, or meet up with him at TaylorTVR in Kent on one of his regular visits to the UK.

He changed mine two/three years ago, it wasn't cheap (circa £600), but it was a full day's work and I have never had any alarm or immobiliser issues since. And he gives you two keys both with a separate boot plipper on, and makes the start up delay 60 seconds, not 15.

If you decide to use someone else, you need someone who knows TVR alarm systems.
+1 for Carl Baker.
Not only does he sort out alarm, immobilizer, hot-start issues, but he also sorts out any other related wiring issues as part of the service. For example, in my case, he found a permanently live, un-terminated, wire just lying loose under the dash, close to the stereo housing, with a strong risk of a dead short occurring sometime in the future. So this got sorted.. BTW, I traveled down to TVR101 for him to do the work.

silverback mike

Original Poster:

11,290 posts

252 months

Tuesday 16th February 2016
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It turns albeit a lot slower and far more lethargically until it cools down then it's fine again...

roseytvr

1,788 posts

177 months

Tuesday 16th February 2016
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Without stating the obvious I would check your earth connections are all good

QBee

20,904 posts

143 months

Tuesday 16th February 2016
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silverback mike said:
It turns albeit a lot slower and far more lethargically until it cools down then it's fine again...
Even though I was never an athlete of note, I can jump to conclusions and say that points to the cable from battery to starter being knackered (technical auto-electrical term).

TV8

3,118 posts

174 months

Tuesday 16th February 2016
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QBee said:
Even though I was never an athlete of note, I can jump to conclusions and say that points to the cable from battery to starter being knackered (technical auto-electrical term).
Or there is a connection in the circuit that is worn out maybe?

TV8

3,118 posts

174 months

Tuesday 16th February 2016
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nawarne said:
silverback mike said:
TV8 said:
silverback mike said:
Indeed, it's a 1994 boggo 4.0
I had a mod-wise set- up to fit and the wiring is like a different car on the early ones.

The terminals on the ignition switch were worn and I could have changed the starter wiring, relays and all that but the last switch lasted for years, so didn't bother. Switch was a few £ and super easy to change. I tried to modify it to allow for the non-ignition power on for the radio but that didn't work for me.
Hmm maybe a plan. A new ignition switch, but how would that change a hot start? (Sorry for my lack of knkwledge) it starts perfectly when cold and also a hot re start after a couple of munutes .... irked
^^I'd agree - can't see how a change of ignition switch will address the problem....Maybe clean up spade (male) terminals and 'nip' the female terminal to make better contact...that should be fine....Car starts from cold and after a cool down, starts from hot (or fairly hot!)

I'd agree with renewing heavy gauge cable to starter. (And you advise starter is fairly new...many folks overlook this bit of kit....its in a hot dirty environment and deserves some love from time to time!!)

I'd agree with wiring in a better relay ex ignition switch to the starter solenoid and consider using heavier gauge wire for this circuit.

Your "hoofing great rally-type switch" is just that - a switch. It does not effectively immobilise your car. I expect anyone with snipe nose pliers could turn it 'on'. You may not be covered for theft or loss from your car with this arrangement??

I'd call Dave at HF Solutions www.hf-solutions.co.uk who should be able to advise. He has taken on the TVR alarm business for day to day stuff. Very helpful bloke, is based in Northampton but I believe travels to TVR service premises.

Nick
You say that you cant see how the ignition switch will change anything but it is the sole connection point in the circuit. There is no relay to replace with a better one in the early cars. It would be good to have a relay wired in correctly

Re the wiring to starter motor, it was fine for nearly 20 years, so it wouldnt be my first point of change but can not do any harm to change.





QBee

20,904 posts

143 months

Tuesday 16th February 2016
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Fair points Graham - couple of things to look at Mike.

phazed

21,844 posts

203 months

Wednesday 17th February 2016
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Most times it is nothing more than a poor earth although I would be inclined to replace the main positive cable to the starter while you are at it.

Remove the earths, clean up all the faces and rebolt firmly.

There is a chassis to engine earth visible in the front offside wheel arch and another at the rear of the gearbox to chassis.

The main earth from the battery disappears under the transmission tunnel and bots to the chassis at about passenger knee height to the chassis accessed by a flap in the carpet under the dash. I believe I remember a picture where someone highlighted the points.

Once this is done, in my experience you won't need any hot start fix.

If you still have problems, replace the starter, they are not infallible.

sgrimshaw

7,311 posts

249 months

Wednesday 17th February 2016
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Give Colin a call at TVRSSW, just down the road from you at Wellington, Somerset.

http://www.tvrssw.com/

silverback mike

Original Poster:

11,290 posts

252 months

Wednesday 17th February 2016
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thumbup Simon.

Oldred_V8S

3,714 posts

237 months

Wednesday 17th February 2016
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silverback mike said:
It turns albeit a lot slower and far more lethargically until it cools down then it's fine again...
Cable problem.
Might be earth but most likely the heavy red cable from the battery to the starter. Sounds like a voltage drop issue.

If you have a multi meter check the voltages whilst cranking the engine (as shown in the diagram below). Clearly make sure you are well away from any moving or hot parts and only undertake this test if you are happy to do so. You do this at your own risk.

If the wiring is OK, the voltage reading from the battery will be almost the same as when the meter is used on the starter. Please note, hold the meter leads against the post of the battery or starter and not on the connection to them.

If the voltages are not the same, you have a wiring /corroded connection problem. Move the black meter lead from the starter earth to a decent earth and repeat the test. If the voltages are now the same, you have an earth issue, if not the same you have a +12v issue.

If they are the same and the starter motor is laboured, you most likely have a starter issue. Obviously you are only likely to catch this fault when the car is hot and is exhibiting the problem, but you may notice a voltage drop just when the car is hot.

If the voltages are the same but very low, you have a battery problem.







Edited by Oldred_V8S on Wednesday 17th February 11:07

pwd95

8,382 posts

237 months

Wednesday 17th February 2016
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silverback mike said:
Hello Wyn....where abouts is Carl boyo?
Here you go...
http://www.tvruk.tv/


silverback mike

Original Poster:

11,290 posts

252 months

Wednesday 17th February 2016
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Oldred, many thanks but electrics really aren't me yikes ill probably have a professional have a gander..

silverback mike

Original Poster:

11,290 posts

252 months

Monday 25th April 2016
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Resurrection!
All sorted. Took the old girl to Colin at TVRSSW....New wire from ignition to starter and a new battery. Fires up perfectly hot or cold.
Fantastic job!
Now I can actually drive it without having to cross my fingers after I have returned to start it! biggrin

FoxTVR430

452 posts

110 months

Tuesday 26th April 2016
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It's good to hear that you have sorted it smile _ thumbup

Paulprior

864 posts

104 months

Tuesday 26th April 2016
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Hi, I don't suppose you know if it was the battery or the cable, I have a similar issue and the car finally failed to start for me at the weekend after parking incorrectly in the garage and trying to restart, the turn over was far too slow, from my understanding of this thread though is that the ignition switches the starter solenoid, so this cable should not control a slow turn over rather than turn over slowly or not at all, it appears that the battery positive goes direct from the battery to the starter, this must mean that the starter negative is switched via the solenoid, do either the main from battery, starter motor negative to starter solenoid, or solenoid to earth are the likely causes of slow turning, that's assunming it's not the battery itself?
Any comments on if I have understood correctly because I am always a bit concerned when stopping for petrol or something, but it's slwsys just managed to start somehow until this weekend
Thanks
Paul

silverback mike

Original Poster:

11,290 posts

252 months

Tuesday 26th April 2016
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Hi Paul.
Well.....Colin fitted the wire which to be honest I was glad he did but it was still reluctant to turn. He then checked the battery to see it had the volts but no amps. So replaced the battery and it was fine. Possibly the battery but now the lot has been changed as I had already fitted a hi torque starter and removed the immobiliser.

QBee

20,904 posts

143 months

Tuesday 26th April 2016
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That sounds like a failing battery Paul. Good auto spares place or tyre and battery indie will test it for you FOC and honestly

mk1fan

10,507 posts

224 months

Tuesday 26th April 2016
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In fairness TVR fitted skinny cables so upgrading them is, imho, a worthwhile job.

QBee

20,904 posts

143 months

Wednesday 27th April 2016
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Always have the battery tested first with a proper battery condition tester (not just a multimeter). They don't have a long life and we add to their problems by long periods of inactivity. You can waste loads of time and money changing this and that, when all it needed was a new battery.