B-b-ber BREMBOS!
Discussion
portzi said:
http://www.nextdaybrakes.com/brembo-front-brake-pa...
Shop around abit Spike but l have these brakes and pigid pads on my RS2 . Fit brembo pads instead, pagid are OK but are all different sizes when l fitted them so chucked them and Bought brembo pads much better quality and no break squeel either
. No point having a quality caliper like brembo and second rate pads it defeats the object of the exercise quality braking system. And if you thinking about pagid discs again don't bother get Bosch ones, as my pagid ones warped so don't make the same mistakes as l made
Those are the pads I've just fitted in mine, try car parts 4 less, I've just paid £35 for themShop around abit Spike but l have these brakes and pigid pads on my RS2 . Fit brembo pads instead, pagid are OK but are all different sizes when l fitted them so chucked them and Bought brembo pads much better quality and no break squeel either
. No point having a quality caliper like brembo and second rate pads it defeats the object of the exercise quality braking system. And if you thinking about pagid discs again don't bother get Bosch ones, as my pagid ones warped so don't make the same mistakes as l made Edited by portzi on Tuesday 1st March 19:11
Brembo Brake Pads (Front) Part No.: 10111017A
Edited by Andav469 on Tuesday 1st March 19:36
Andav469 said:
portzi said:
http://www.nextdaybrakes.com/brembo-front-brake-pa...
Shop around abit Spike but l have these brakes and pagid pads on my RS2 . Fit brembo pads instead, pagid are OK but are all different sizes when l fitted them so chucked them and Bought brembo pads much better quality and no break squeel either. No point having a quality caliper like brembo and second rate pads it defeats the object of the exercise quality braking system. And if you thinking about pagid discs again don't bother get Bosch ones, as my pagid ones warped so don't make the same mistakes as l made
Those are the pads I've just fitted in mine, try car parts 4 less, I've just paid £35 for themShop around abit Spike but l have these brakes and pagid pads on my RS2 . Fit brembo pads instead, pagid are OK but are all different sizes when l fitted them so chucked them and Bought brembo pads much better quality and no break squeel either
. No point having a quality caliper like brembo and second rate pads it defeats the object of the exercise quality braking system. And if you thinking about pagid discs again don't bother get Bosch ones, as my pagid ones warped so don't make the same mistakes as l made Edited by portzi on Tuesday 1st March 19:11
Brembo Brake Pads (Front) Part No.: 10111017A
Edited by Andav469 on Tuesday 1st March 19:36
ChimpOnGas said:
How does your brake pedal feel, and what difference did you notice immediatly after fitting the Brembo four pot callipers?
DaveIts a personal thing I guess but I find the brakes feel much more progressive when you press them and I certainly prefer the feel. I have not noticed any imbalance in the brakes and certainly would not go back. I use Ferodo DS2500 on mine and you need a bit of caution for the first mile whilst they warm up - that aside a great upgrade.
Ian
roseytvr said:
ChimpOnGas said:
How does your brake pedal feel, and what difference did you notice immediatly after fitting the Brembo four pot callipers?
DaveIts a personal thing I guess but I find the brakes feel much more progressive when you press them and I certainly prefer the feel. I have not noticed any imbalance in the brakes and certainly would not go back. I use Ferodo DS2500 on mine and you need a bit of caution for the first mile whilst they warm up - that aside a great upgrade.
Ian
hillclimbmanic said:
Sorry to infiltrate.!!
I have a '92 Grief 400; I've just upgraded to Alfa Brembos, with the RS Focus 324mm discs...I am planning to upgrade the rears to 500 spec...Will that be OK, regarding balance, etc.?
Manic
Based on what others have done, IE just complete the front Brembo conversion to their 500 using RS Focus 324mm discs , what you'll end up with is their very same set up.I have a '92 Grief 400; I've just upgraded to Alfa Brembos, with the RS Focus 324mm discs...I am planning to upgrade the rears to 500 spec...Will that be OK, regarding balance, etc.?
Manic
It's also what I'm planning here as I have a later 400 that benefited from the bigger 500 brakes as standard, TBH I'm just following the lead of Andav469, portzi, rigga & QBee all these helpful chaps have given me encouragement that the conversion works really well with no brake imbalance and have also confirmed they will fit under my 16" Imolas as long as I use wheel spacers.
I'll be fitting 12mm hub centric wheel spacers both to the front and rear so retaining the original track relationship between front and rear, by fitting 12mm spacers on all four corners of the car I'm not altering the steering geometry at all, all I'm doing is increasing the car's overall track (front & rear) by 24mm which actually could deliver a small handing benefit in itself.
The other thing that's immediately obvious when you pick up one of these Brembo callipers is how light they are compared with the old mono piston cast iron boat anchors used by TVR which has to benefit handling too, so it's possible these brakes will have benefits beyond just the braking improvement.
The only other thing I'd say is if your callipers came off an Alfa rather than a BMW E38 I think you'll find they're a different Brembo model, I and Andav469 were discussing this the other day and found we both had independently discovered although the Alfa & BMW Brembo callipers look the same the Alfa pads are different (smaller) to the ones listed for the E38 BMW, so the logical assumption is the callipers are different too?
A bit more research on pads seems to suggest the BMW E38 callipers are the same Brembo model used by Ferrari on the 360 model combined with 330mm discs, so fitting BMW E38 callipers with RS Focus 324mm discs is basically the same as fitting Ferrari 360 brakes to your TVR.
This means I'm giving 'Ol Gasbag' reconditioned Ferrari 360 brakes for a shade under £500, when you say it like that this upgrade seems like a very good deal indeed
Assuming I like the pedal feel and there's no brake imbalance as everyone using this setup is confirming, I think this whole Brembo calliper idea could turn out to be a fantastic upgrade. The brakes on 'Ol Gasbag' work well enough just as they are, but to me the pedal has always felt a bit dead.
Like my gear linkage delete project actually all I'm trying to do here is improve the tactile feedback I enjoy from the car. Enhancing all the controls of what is very much meant to be a proper drivers car isn't something you can easily qualify on these pages, you'd need to drive the car.
But in my experience the feel and feedback you get form a car's controls can massively improve the driving experience and enjoyment you get from it, so the way I see it it's well worth doing everything I can to enhance these elements.
I've driven Qbee's rather well sorted car and yes I can confirm the brakes work well and there's no balance issues,,
I have standard brakes which work ok on the roads but on track or anything really fast and they are failing badly compared to Qbee's car,,, I'm looking at getting the Brembo's so that must be a vote of confidence.
I have standard brakes which work ok on the roads but on track or anything really fast and they are failing badly compared to Qbee's car,,, I'm looking at getting the Brembo's so that must be a vote of confidence.
ChimpOnGas said:
Yes Chris, this seems to be what most do and without reporting any brake imbalance issues, saying that in my experience people investing good money in modifications seldom come on a forum to say they've just added something to their car that didn't really work all that well.
What you get to see is some cool photos and and a one sided story about how fantastic their modification is working, you will find I am the master of this practice so whatever you do don't believe a word I say
As an incurable salesman I will have you spending money on gearbox modifications and stand alone ECU systems you actually don't really need, I will have you thinking making your TVR burn LPG is the best idea in the world. As a new member of the madhouse gang I am warning you about my ways so you can protect yourself and see all the bull coming well in advance.
Back to these Brembos and the brake imbalance question and all my joking aside, I'm genuinely keen to here what people have found when fitting big brakes to the front only and leaving the rears stock. Have I sold myself this conversion when I don't really need it, will I spend £500 only to find my brakes are imbalanced and wish I'd just left them alone?
Will I be disappointed but still feel obliged to come on here and tell everyone how great my new brakes are when in my heart of hearts I know I should have left well alone?
As ChimpOnGas suggests, this forum is an invaluable and unequalled resource for anyone who want’s to fix or improve their Chimaera but as he also warns you - some of the contributions - for various reasons - need to be taken with more than a pinch of salt.What you get to see is some cool photos and and a one sided story about how fantastic their modification is working, you will find I am the master of this practice so whatever you do don't believe a word I say
As an incurable salesman I will have you spending money on gearbox modifications and stand alone ECU systems you actually don't really need, I will have you thinking making your TVR burn LPG is the best idea in the world. As a new member of the madhouse gang I am warning you about my ways so you can protect yourself and see all the bull coming well in advance.
Back to these Brembos and the brake imbalance question and all my joking aside, I'm genuinely keen to here what people have found when fitting big brakes to the front only and leaving the rears stock. Have I sold myself this conversion when I don't really need it, will I spend £500 only to find my brakes are imbalanced and wish I'd just left them alone?
Will I be disappointed but still feel obliged to come on here and tell everyone how great my new brakes are when in my heart of hearts I know I should have left well alone?
Contributors on here, as in life generally, are a variable bunch. Some, and they’re relatively easy to spot, have a questionable contribution to make and just like to see their name in print. Others, and I would definitely include ChimpOnGas as a prime example, seem driven by a wholly commendable desire to help, inform and generally share their enthusiasm for these unique but sometimes challenging sports cars. Their contributions are backed up by a wealth of experience and research which would be impossible to find elsewhere.
But…as Dave warns you - he is a compulsive salesman - and like myself, would not have had a successful career in our chosen field, were we not persuasive.
I’ve fallen under his spell on a number of occasions, sometimes it’s been a relatively minor upgrade such as sourcing a more accurate oil pressure sender. Other CoG inspired upgrades come under the need-to-know heading, i.e. my wife does not need -to-know how much I am currently spending on a lightened flywheel and S10/T5 gearbox conversion complete with US imported shifter and gear knob.
The trick in all of this is - try to work out where a particular contributor is coming from - only then will you have a clue as to where they might be trying to lead you. For example - and I’m really trying hard not to blow smoke up Dave’s chuff here - but I know from reading his posts that he loves these cars, has used one regularly for a few years and is not overly precious about originality as long as the spirit of his car is retained and what he is changing improves the experience. When I learned that he had also had a CANEMS ECU installed by the Lloyd bros, his credibility and relevance to me continued to ascend. But you will also find some contributors on here who are firmly in the ‘If it ain’t broke don’t fix/change/upgrade it’ camp. I don’t personally know any of them - and quite frankly, I don’t think I want to - but the point is, look for the clues and try to see if they’re going in the same direction as you.
Now for the sting in the tail…
Once again, you will have to use your judgement as to what advice, however well meaning, aligns with your own aims and experience. I too wanted to upgrade my brakes, partly because there was clearly scope to do so, but also because I had made significant changes to it’s performance - and here will be another bone of contention on this site which I think is worth a short diversion before I return the issue of the brakes upgrade.
Some will advocate fitting turbos or superchargers or even nitrous injection, others will take the AJ Foyt route where “there ain’t no substitute for cubic inches” - the ultimate along that path being to graft in 6.3 litres of LS power. I had decided that my 400 had the potential to be a very rewarding drive by just making it work more efficiently but still keeping it simple. To achieve this I opted for a significantly improved top end by having what is loosely defined as a Stage III head conversion i.e. bigger valves, opened throats and ports and bulleted guides and roller rockers. This coupled with numerous other enhancements to the breathing including 71mm throttle, larger plenum etc. and then remapping the CANEMS, has transformed the car. The point I’m making is, it achieved what I was looking for, some more power for sure, but just as important, a better and wider torque spread and a generally more responsive and usable car in a wide range of real world driving conditions - without hammering the economy. If you plan to take your car to Santa Pod there’s at least one contributor on here who will tell you how to transform your Chimp into a fire breathing, sub 9 seconds monster - just don’t expect to get over 30mpg touring Southern France and God help you if you get caught in a 10 mile tail-back on the Autoroute in ambient temperatures over 35 degs. Others are keen racers or track day enthusiasts who can lay down seriously impressive lap times against Porsches and other exotica. However, to achieve this they will be having to seriously consider compromises on ride height, spring rate, shock absorbers, tyre stick versus wear, power versus low speed tractability etc. etc..
Back to the brakes upgrade, a classic example of the need to evaluate all of the options and advice carefully before deciding what’s best for you. In my case, given a free hand it would have been a ‘no brainer’, brand new AP all round - tried, tested, race proven and British to boot. Unfortunately, at £2000 - £3000, it was a non-starter, there was no way I’d slip that one past the ‘authorities’. So second hand AP or perhaps Brembo? I favoured AP for the reasons already stated but Brembo also have an excellent pedigree and lets face it, that yellow logo does cut it with the ‘tricked-up shopping car’ crowd.
However, I couldn’t discount my concerns about twenty year old chunks of aluminium that during their life have been subjected to more abuse than a pretty teenage Top of the Pops fan. Apart from ill equipped and ham-fisted attempts to service them, these things have endured more rapid and extreme heat cycles than a MacD chip pan. Not knowing enough about the metallurgy and the potential for stress induced long term fatigue, I was concerned to say the least. Ok, I could take them to a guy who makes a living out of resurrecting antique brakes, fitting new squidgy bits, testing them, touching up the yellow paint and then telling me they’re as good as new - well he would - wouldn’t he…
Alternatively - and I think you can see where this going - I could consider new ‘alternative’ aftermarket solutions. The three well known brands, Willwood, Hi-Spec and AMS (there may be others but some are certainly just re-badged) all make excellent, cost effective (not cheap Dave) solutions - which have also been thoroughly tested within their quoted ‘performance envelopes’ and are used daily on the road and track. These have not been purchased by suicidal idiots with a death wish but by enthusiasts who have weighed up the pros and cons of resurrecting superannuated braking components with fantastic ’street cred’ but questionable provenance versus brand new purpose designed, manufactured and specified components. You’ll also find that those who’ve not taken the second hand Brembo route are better drivers - provocative - not really, it’s much easier to drive well without your fingers crossed.
The reason incidentally, that I’m being coy about the spec of my brakes and the manufacturer I chose from the aforementioned three, is that I managed to negotiate a deal on a package and spec that for commercial reasons, is not currently available on the open market and am honour bound not to shout about it - but needless to say that I’m very happy with it.
Just one final comment before someone writes in with a horror story about his or one of his mates experience with some ACME brakes he bought on eBay - and I will be the first to admit that the following is an extreme and very rare occurrence. My daily driver before last, at the time a two year old BMW 335 coupe - quickish - was the only car ever, on which I’ve had a serious brake issue - seal ruptured, fortunately before I pulled off my drive - Brembo I believe…
Malcolm
Each to their own I guess, I've been running the Brembo set up for the last 3 years and very happy with the change.
The calipers were fitted by BMW to haul up a near 2 ton car, so the TVR is hardly giving them a tough time.
On another note, one of your selected 3 has given one of the forum members on here a right run around with a so called 'brake upgrade' at a significant cost, his problem has been ongoing with the supplier for 6 months+ I guess they have taken his money so they are not so interested in sorting the problem.
The calipers were fitted by BMW to haul up a near 2 ton car, so the TVR is hardly giving them a tough time.
On another note, one of your selected 3 has given one of the forum members on here a right run around with a so called 'brake upgrade' at a significant cost, his problem has been ongoing with the supplier for 6 months+ I guess they have taken his money so they are not so interested in sorting the problem.
I think you’ve missed the point.
I’d be very surprised if fitted correctly, they weren’t working well.
I’ve no problem with Brembo whatsoever - they pull up my 2 ton of Jag from speeds I wouldn’t normally go near in the Chimp.
The point I was answering wasn’t how effective they are - that is simply a matter of physics and the mechanical advantage gained by hydraulic ‘leverage’.
I was countering the argument that choosing an alternative to Brembo was somehow reckless and potentially suicidal and that they would fail prematurely - whereas twenty year old reconditioned Brembos could be perceived as 100% reliable. Both standpoints are specious.
But as Dave implied, it’s a brave man to come on here and concede that there may possibly be an alternative to the one he’s spent his hard earned on.
As for taking 6 months to resolve a dispute with a supplier - I don’t know any of the circumstances and even if you pointed me at the thread I’d only know one side of it and as we know, theres always two sides to an argument - which brings us full circle back to where we started…
I’d be very surprised if fitted correctly, they weren’t working well.
I’ve no problem with Brembo whatsoever - they pull up my 2 ton of Jag from speeds I wouldn’t normally go near in the Chimp.
The point I was answering wasn’t how effective they are - that is simply a matter of physics and the mechanical advantage gained by hydraulic ‘leverage’.
I was countering the argument that choosing an alternative to Brembo was somehow reckless and potentially suicidal and that they would fail prematurely - whereas twenty year old reconditioned Brembos could be perceived as 100% reliable. Both standpoints are specious.
But as Dave implied, it’s a brave man to come on here and concede that there may possibly be an alternative to the one he’s spent his hard earned on.
As for taking 6 months to resolve a dispute with a supplier - I don’t know any of the circumstances and even if you pointed me at the thread I’d only know one side of it and as we know, theres always two sides to an argument - which brings us full circle back to where we started…
Brerabit said:
I think you’ve missed the point.
I’d be very surprised if fitted correctly, they weren’t working well.
I’ve no problem with Brembo whatsoever - they pull up my 2 ton of Jag from speeds I wouldn’t normally go near in the Chimp.
The point I was answering wasn’t how effective they are - that is simply a matter of physics and the mechanical advantage gained by hydraulic ‘leverage’.
I was countering the argument that choosing an alternative to Brembo was somehow reckless and potentially suicidal and that they would fail prematurely - whereas twenty year old reconditioned Brembos could be perceived as 100% reliable. Both standpoints are specious.
But as Dave implied, it’s a brave man to come on here and concede that there may possibly be an alternative to the one he’s spent his hard earned on.
As for taking 6 months to resolve a dispute with a supplier - I don’t know any of the circumstances and even if you pointed me at the thread I’d only know one side of it and as we know, theres always two sides to an argument - which brings us full circle back to where we started…
Yep, took your point slightly different to what you are describing.I’d be very surprised if fitted correctly, they weren’t working well.
I’ve no problem with Brembo whatsoever - they pull up my 2 ton of Jag from speeds I wouldn’t normally go near in the Chimp.
The point I was answering wasn’t how effective they are - that is simply a matter of physics and the mechanical advantage gained by hydraulic ‘leverage’.
I was countering the argument that choosing an alternative to Brembo was somehow reckless and potentially suicidal and that they would fail prematurely - whereas twenty year old reconditioned Brembos could be perceived as 100% reliable. Both standpoints are specious.
But as Dave implied, it’s a brave man to come on here and concede that there may possibly be an alternative to the one he’s spent his hard earned on.
As for taking 6 months to resolve a dispute with a supplier - I don’t know any of the circumstances and even if you pointed me at the thread I’d only know one side of it and as we know, theres always two sides to an argument - which brings us full circle back to where we started…
What Jag do you have with Brembo's I guess it must be an old one, I've just sold an XFR and that didn't have Brembo!s, in fact the brakes were one of the weakest points on an otherwise excellent car IMO
Edited by Andav469 on Wednesday 2nd March 19:57
Now you’ve got me - and probably destroyed any credibility I may still be clinging to.
The Jag is a chipped - that is re-mapped, not superficially damaged - XF S (a tad shy of 330bhp) and because I live two miles from the factory, I’m surrounded by Jaguar employees and on two separate occasions I’ve been ‘reliably’ informed that the brakes are provided as OEM by Brembo and I just assumed that was fact.
Anyway following your response, I’ve tried without success to find any evidence substantiating this claim and so now have to concede it was probably bo**ocks - but just goes to show the myths that build up around these Brembos…
Having said that, I do still maintain that the brakes are excellent in operation, have never experienced fade - and they do get seriously pushed. I’m fortunate that my work takes me to lots of remote locations around the UK which can include many thousands of joyful miles on A and B roads in a year. However, disc consumption is another matter - 2 sets in three years. Does that mean the discs are getting a thorough working or that they’re rubbish? I only mention this because , and once again “this is to the best of my knowledge” - I’m told the discs are supplied by Pagid, another manufacturer claiming to be OEM suppliers to auto royalty including Aston Martin, Bugatti, Ferrari, McLaren and Porsche. I’m just raising the question about claimed OEM pedigree’s and their relevance.
Anyway, I think you appreciate my point, we’re all enthusiasts and probably spend more than is wise on our cars. There are numerous choices to make when considering upgrades, balancing cost, fit for purpose and yes, even aesthetics but we shouldn’t denigrate fellow enthusiasts decisions because they’ve done a different analysis and gone a different route. I wasn't actually taking anyone on - just pointing out that there's an awful lot of 'aftermarket' calliper users out there who are more than happy with their choice and I'm personally not aware of anyone who's had a life threatening experience because of it. (cue litany of horror stories)
... and finally - shouldn't we be encouraging and supporting these companies making components to improve our cars rather than being sniffy about them because they don't have an OEM contract. If every company supporting our hobby failed because they weren't simultaneously supplying BMW or Ferrari the marketplace would be a lot thinner out there.
The Jag is a chipped - that is re-mapped, not superficially damaged - XF S (a tad shy of 330bhp) and because I live two miles from the factory, I’m surrounded by Jaguar employees and on two separate occasions I’ve been ‘reliably’ informed that the brakes are provided as OEM by Brembo and I just assumed that was fact.
Anyway following your response, I’ve tried without success to find any evidence substantiating this claim and so now have to concede it was probably bo**ocks - but just goes to show the myths that build up around these Brembos…
Having said that, I do still maintain that the brakes are excellent in operation, have never experienced fade - and they do get seriously pushed. I’m fortunate that my work takes me to lots of remote locations around the UK which can include many thousands of joyful miles on A and B roads in a year. However, disc consumption is another matter - 2 sets in three years. Does that mean the discs are getting a thorough working or that they’re rubbish? I only mention this because , and once again “this is to the best of my knowledge” - I’m told the discs are supplied by Pagid, another manufacturer claiming to be OEM suppliers to auto royalty including Aston Martin, Bugatti, Ferrari, McLaren and Porsche. I’m just raising the question about claimed OEM pedigree’s and their relevance.
Anyway, I think you appreciate my point, we’re all enthusiasts and probably spend more than is wise on our cars. There are numerous choices to make when considering upgrades, balancing cost, fit for purpose and yes, even aesthetics but we shouldn’t denigrate fellow enthusiasts decisions because they’ve done a different analysis and gone a different route. I wasn't actually taking anyone on - just pointing out that there's an awful lot of 'aftermarket' calliper users out there who are more than happy with their choice and I'm personally not aware of anyone who's had a life threatening experience because of it. (cue litany of horror stories)
... and finally - shouldn't we be encouraging and supporting these companies making components to improve our cars rather than being sniffy about them because they don't have an OEM contract. If every company supporting our hobby failed because they weren't simultaneously supplying BMW or Ferrari the marketplace would be a lot thinner out there.
ChimpOnGas said:
Ben also has a Sierra front hub in the workshop so may also be able to supply the TVR community with laser cut brackets to mount the E38 calipers to Chims and Griffs.
"OldPhoneBloke" on eBay has been selling these brackets for ages ... that's where I got mine from.http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Cosworth-2-wheel-drive-B...
Phil
Edited by Bassfiend229hp on Saturday 5th March 22:30
Brerabit said:
There are numerous choices to make when considering upgrades, balancing cost, fit for purpose and yes, even aesthetics but we shouldn’t denigrate fellow enthusiasts decisions because they’ve done a different analysis and gone a different route. I wasn't actually taking anyone on - just pointing out that there's an awful lot of 'aftermarket' calliper users out there who are more than happy with their choice and I'm personally not aware of anyone who's had a life threatening experience because of it. (cue litany of horror stories)
... a company in Dartford who supply brakes. Most of the info has been taken down but this thread alludes to what happened. I have met Goldie a good few times, he I know he is not just a screen name on here stirring things up.http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...
I have spent a fortune on my Griff buying parts from small specialist suppliers but brakes is one area I was insistent it must be a supplier with an OEM contract. On the flip side I know several people who have these brakes on their car who are perfectly happy.
Your post when you mentioned falling under Dave's spell did make me chuckle, I think I am guilty of that as well. You do make a salient point however, we all use our cars for different purposes and we all have different tastes so it is important to look at the merits of each modification to make sure it fits with what we want out of our cars. This is where Dave's threads are very helpful as he discusses the thought process and reasoning behind the upgrade.
There is a very good argument for leaving the car standard, but for me half of the fun of ownership is making mods here and there and developing the car.
Matthew
I trusted the 887 888 genuine oe front brake upgrade and they were awsome plus they look factory. I was pulled in with the shiny callipers and tvr logo induced and weakened by drinking a bottle of wine .I now have pretty light weight brakes which are no better than what i had. On this setup the whole pad does not cover the disc and as the pads wear the top part of the pad is not even in contact with the disc. Is that right ?
MPoxon said:
There is a very good argument for leaving the car standard, but for me half of the fun of ownership is making mods here and there and developing the car.
^^^THIS^^^To me the Chims and Griffs were so nearly perfect, a rough diamond if you like that just needs a little polishing
This weekend I did over 300 miles in 'Ol Gasbag'.... rain, hail, wet snow,,,,, one spell at 135 leptons playing with a guy on a big sports bike and countless full throttle overtakes of any victim I (safely) selected.
Proper no fekin about TVR driving and a big fat grin on my face all weekend, and all of it to the soundtrack of a full fat V8 signing in my ears
Not mention the average cost equivalent of 40mpg over the full enthusiastically driven 309 miles, there's no way driven in the same way even the very latest super efficient Porsche Boxster could even come close that kind of fuel economy.
God I love 'Ol Gasbag', I just can't think of a single modern sports car that would compete on all levels with my TVR, let alone a classic car which is a way better comparison.
This is my very own Eagle E-type on a budget, quite simply the pleasure this car gives me is beyond words!!!
Matthew
You make some excellent points - and in the spirit I originally posted.
I fully understand the warm, comfy feeling that the OEM label confers on such important components as brakes but let’s keep OEM in context, an Original Equipment Manufacturer is precisely that, the manufacturer of equipment originally specified after long and exhaustive testing in conjunction with all of the other components in a braking system, not to mention the suspension to which it’s attached etc. - and for a specific vehicle. Can we really assume that our scavenging of a random selection of some these components together with bracketry, spacers and components from other vehicles to make it all fit, in some way confers on our ad hoc assembly, the safety credentials of the original design?
But let’s assume for the sake of argument that it does - if only to give me the opportunity to make another point…
It’s only been very recently that BMW recalled around 250,000 vehicles, including Rolls Royces, because of brake system failures - or Toyota, a company even more famous for its quality control and zero fault tolerant manufacturing systems - over two million vehicles recalled following some spectacularly well publicised brake system failures - and these are just the high profile ones.
Please don’t misunderstand me, I’m not discouraging ingenuity in raiding the parts bins of major manufacturers, let’s face it, TVR wouldn’t exist otherwise. All I am saying is there’s more than one way of killing a cat - other than choking it on cream…. Just because a component came off some high end luxo-barge, sometime in the last millennium, doesn’t necessarily mean that you can assume it will work faultlessly after you’ve rejigged it to fit a completely different vehicle and then ragged it around on a track day twenty years later. And conversely just because a small specialist brake manufacturer doesn’t have the massive R&D budgets of the major manufacturers, is little justification for the assumption that their components have the breaking strain of a Kit-Kat.
It’s difficult to get the full gist of YellowGriffs problem from the link you posted but from experience I know the laundry inducing sensation that brake failure can provoke and he has my genuine and heartfelt sympathy. What I obviously don’t know are the implied twist and turns in his negotiations with the company in question but clearly something has gone very wrong in the resolution of this issue for the need to resort to the courts. Unfortunately, it’s all too easy in these situations for the temperature to get raised - by either side - and then the route to a mutually acceptable solution gets blocked and everyone loses - except the lawyers. However, there is one plus point - if component failure can be established in a system supplied for a specific application - he probably stands a lot more chance of getting satisfaction in the courts than if he’d lashed together a few disparate second hand components from assorted vehicles and bolted them to his Griff and then tried to take Brembo on.
And no SILICONEKID345HP, it an’t right. Piston pressure, friction material, swept area - and where it is applied on the radius of the disc are the basic variables factored into the design of a braking system but pads failing to make full contact with the disc is very wrong and needs investigating. If this problem is as result of a manufacturing defect and the manufacturer in question is not responding constructively, you have a genuine grievance and should pursue it vigorously.
As for the oracle known as Dave, aka ChimpOnGas - and a few other handles - how does he find this stuff? I thought my Google skills were reasonably well developed but this guy’s a pro - and he’s costing me a small fortune. I managed to resist the LED headlights - having ploughed through 19 pages of meticulous research, I came to the conclusion that it was an interesting idea - but ultimately resistible because of the problem of getting LED modules to correctly match the focal length of the reflectors in the Hella units of my MkIII conversion and as I’d also independently discovered the PIAA LP270s to supplement my main beam, I was content with a workable incandescent headlight solution. I should have stopped reading at that point. But no, there on page 20 he’s found adjustable focal length LED units - now that’s another £70 he’s going to cost me. A couple of his other gems include https://www.spiyda.com/magento/index.php a great little collection of gizmos and problem solvers - and then there’s MSD multi-angle spark plug connectors which together with thermal socks eliminate the need for the dreaded Land Rover plug extenders. The list goes on for this champion of independent aftermarket manufacturers...
And you and he are absolutely bob-on, the fact that these cars are so nearly right is what makes them so irresistible to fettle and tweak as we strive to perfect the match to our own specific expectations and foibles but without losing that raw, visceral buzz that no other classic even comes close to.
Even so... dicing at 135 in rain, snow sleet and hail suggests a level of confidence in the marque I've yet to acquire...
Malcolm
You make some excellent points - and in the spirit I originally posted.
I fully understand the warm, comfy feeling that the OEM label confers on such important components as brakes but let’s keep OEM in context, an Original Equipment Manufacturer is precisely that, the manufacturer of equipment originally specified after long and exhaustive testing in conjunction with all of the other components in a braking system, not to mention the suspension to which it’s attached etc. - and for a specific vehicle. Can we really assume that our scavenging of a random selection of some these components together with bracketry, spacers and components from other vehicles to make it all fit, in some way confers on our ad hoc assembly, the safety credentials of the original design?
But let’s assume for the sake of argument that it does - if only to give me the opportunity to make another point…
It’s only been very recently that BMW recalled around 250,000 vehicles, including Rolls Royces, because of brake system failures - or Toyota, a company even more famous for its quality control and zero fault tolerant manufacturing systems - over two million vehicles recalled following some spectacularly well publicised brake system failures - and these are just the high profile ones.
Please don’t misunderstand me, I’m not discouraging ingenuity in raiding the parts bins of major manufacturers, let’s face it, TVR wouldn’t exist otherwise. All I am saying is there’s more than one way of killing a cat - other than choking it on cream…. Just because a component came off some high end luxo-barge, sometime in the last millennium, doesn’t necessarily mean that you can assume it will work faultlessly after you’ve rejigged it to fit a completely different vehicle and then ragged it around on a track day twenty years later. And conversely just because a small specialist brake manufacturer doesn’t have the massive R&D budgets of the major manufacturers, is little justification for the assumption that their components have the breaking strain of a Kit-Kat.
It’s difficult to get the full gist of YellowGriffs problem from the link you posted but from experience I know the laundry inducing sensation that brake failure can provoke and he has my genuine and heartfelt sympathy. What I obviously don’t know are the implied twist and turns in his negotiations with the company in question but clearly something has gone very wrong in the resolution of this issue for the need to resort to the courts. Unfortunately, it’s all too easy in these situations for the temperature to get raised - by either side - and then the route to a mutually acceptable solution gets blocked and everyone loses - except the lawyers. However, there is one plus point - if component failure can be established in a system supplied for a specific application - he probably stands a lot more chance of getting satisfaction in the courts than if he’d lashed together a few disparate second hand components from assorted vehicles and bolted them to his Griff and then tried to take Brembo on.
And no SILICONEKID345HP, it an’t right. Piston pressure, friction material, swept area - and where it is applied on the radius of the disc are the basic variables factored into the design of a braking system but pads failing to make full contact with the disc is very wrong and needs investigating. If this problem is as result of a manufacturing defect and the manufacturer in question is not responding constructively, you have a genuine grievance and should pursue it vigorously.
As for the oracle known as Dave, aka ChimpOnGas - and a few other handles - how does he find this stuff? I thought my Google skills were reasonably well developed but this guy’s a pro - and he’s costing me a small fortune. I managed to resist the LED headlights - having ploughed through 19 pages of meticulous research, I came to the conclusion that it was an interesting idea - but ultimately resistible because of the problem of getting LED modules to correctly match the focal length of the reflectors in the Hella units of my MkIII conversion and as I’d also independently discovered the PIAA LP270s to supplement my main beam, I was content with a workable incandescent headlight solution. I should have stopped reading at that point. But no, there on page 20 he’s found adjustable focal length LED units - now that’s another £70 he’s going to cost me. A couple of his other gems include https://www.spiyda.com/magento/index.php a great little collection of gizmos and problem solvers - and then there’s MSD multi-angle spark plug connectors which together with thermal socks eliminate the need for the dreaded Land Rover plug extenders. The list goes on for this champion of independent aftermarket manufacturers...
And you and he are absolutely bob-on, the fact that these cars are so nearly right is what makes them so irresistible to fettle and tweak as we strive to perfect the match to our own specific expectations and foibles but without losing that raw, visceral buzz that no other classic even comes close to.
Even so... dicing at 135 in rain, snow sleet and hail suggests a level of confidence in the marque I've yet to acquire...
Malcolm
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