Modern Porsche - Vs - TVR Chimaera

Modern Porsche - Vs - TVR Chimaera

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ChimpOnGas

Original Poster:

9,637 posts

178 months

Friday 29th April 2016
quotequote all
Ok on the face of it a bit of foolishness from me here, but it's a more realistic idea than you think yes

Here goes.....

Option One: Buy a new Porsche 718 2.5 Boxster Roadster S for £51,105

Or...

Option Two: Buy a decent 18 year old 4.0 litre TVR Chimaera for £14,000?


So how do the costs of ownership in year one stack up?

Expense Porsche 718 TVR Chimaera
Road Fund Tax £230 £235
Insurance £825 £285
MoT £0.00 £40.00
Fuel - Pence per mile 19.3p 20.2p
Servicing £510.00 £550.00
Depreciation in year one -£12,326.00 +£800
0-60 4.6 seconds 4.8 seconds
Top speed 177mph 153mph


So taking a modest annual mileage of 6,000 in year one the new Porsche is going to cost me £15,000.49, or just over £1,000 more than buying the TVR Chimaera outright!

The TVR on the other hand will cost £1,471.20 or a massive £13,530.00 annual saving over the Porsche, again this saving being big enough to enough to buy a TVR Chimaera outright!

And I haven't even factored in the lease or loan repayments on the Porsche and a straightforward bank loan of £14,000 to buy the TVR (both over four years), if I did the Porsche would cost at least a further £12,000 a year to run than the Chimaera yikes

So do I opt out of my company car scheme and use my allowance to buy/lease a new Porsche 718 2.5 Boxster Roadster S or do I press 'Ol Gasbag' into service as my company car and save a small fortune scratchchin

Of course I already have the TVR and 'Ol Gasbag' consistently delivers an average fuel economy of £0.10p per mile, so that makes it work out even cheaper still eek

A £25,000 saving in year one is what I'm predicting, whoever said TVRs are impractical and costly to own clearly hasn't looked closely at what people seem happy to throw away every year just to put a new Porsche on the drive.

In cost terms the TVR wins hands down and by a massive margin, 'Ol Gasbag' becoming my new company car.. it's a no-brainer boys wink








Edited by ChimpOnGas on Friday 29th April 14:10

T4NGO

384 posts

235 months

Friday 29th April 2016
quotequote all
Or you could use those same 'blinkered, convince the mrs man-maths' and get a sag lol smile no savings, but your daily hack is a sag. i am sure thats what most of us did lol

ChimpOnGas

Original Poster:

9,637 posts

178 months

Friday 29th April 2016
quotequote all
T4NGO said:
Or you could use those same 'blinkered, convince the mrs man-maths' and get a sag lol smile no savings, but your daily hack is a sag. i am sure thats what most of us did lol
There's some genuine fiscal facts in there mate, admittedly it's the depreciation that makes the biggest impact but if you think depreciation isn't real money then just wait until year three comes around.

At that point most people just roll their balloon payment finance package into their next new car, the monthly payments stay affordable and they get a brand new car.

That's a great deal right... Is it fek!!!

People are so short sighted on these balloon payment deals and fail to understand one day they will need to clear the final payment, and after many balloon payment roll overs over many years that's when the reality of financing new cars in this way becomes a frightening reality.

People who turn a blind eye to depreciation are the real blinkered "Man Maths" experts, the guy that chose the TVR option will actually be revealed as the smart one at the end of the day and the far richer one too wink




Edited by ChimpOnGas on Friday 29th April 15:08

T4NGO

384 posts

235 months

Friday 29th April 2016
quotequote all
I was agreeing with you???

ChimpOnGas

Original Poster:

9,637 posts

178 months

Friday 29th April 2016
quotequote all
T4NGO said:
I was agreeing with you???
I know, but I needed to get it off my chest anyway thumbup

TVR aside, any well maintained classic used on a daily basis makes for a cheap car to own.

If it's over 40 years old you don't even pay road fund tax!

Practically, rust, reliability, parts availability and performance in keeping with modern traffic are the key stumbling blocks to overcome. But if you can find a classic that covers those bases you're definitely onto a winner.

An Eagle E-Type would do nicely but starting at £250k they are...erm a little pricey, old 911 Porsches make for good usable classics but have you seen the price these days yikes

A Frontline MGB is another practical and brilliantly improved classic for the modern age but again you need the thick end of £80k to sign up.

So what if you like old school drivers cars, you want to beat the painful depreciation yet you need something that stops and goes in a way that wont embarrass you on modern roads, what if you cant afford the wonderful selection of improved classics available these days?

Well that's where a TVR Chimaera comes in, at £14k you get a modern classic you can use every day that will work out massively cheaper than any new and boring Euro Box.

Be different, enjoy a real car and save yourself a packet.. A subtly enhanced and well maintained Chimaera is not only the best value classic on the market today, when compared with the latest Porsche 917 its also a cheap sports car to own & run full stop!

The 18 year old TVR is just as fast, just as economical, and just as practical as the latest 2016 Porsche, so if that's progress you can keep it wink

OleVix

1,438 posts

147 months

Friday 29th April 2016
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I have spent some money on mine, new engine, turbo, full body lift etc. probably spent over 12k over 4 years. And I got something back for it. I have friends with porkers, bmws and audis that have spent 5ks on services alone, no upgrades! Just regular stuff that breaks and are super expensive on german marques.... The chim is a cheap, cool place to be wink

Johnniem

2,660 posts

222 months

Friday 29th April 2016
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I had a 450 Chim for 7 years and upgraded a lot. Never to make more power but rather to make more efficient in the brake and cooling departments. When it was all mechanically perfect I refurbished it inside and out. It looked awesome and better than it did when it left the factory. It provided so many smiles per mile and I never felt annoyed at having to spend the money. I bought it for £10k, sold it for £10k so after all I spent on it, it probably cost me around £15k - £20k.

I moved on to a 987.1 (2007) special edition Porsche Cayman with a sports exhaust. It was the best drivers car that I had ever experienced. I moved up to the 987.2 Cayman a couple of months ago and although it is a little faster than the first Cayman the only 'improvement' is more toys. It cost £30k and I love it! I particularly enjoy that I don't think about what upgrade to do next. I just get in a drive. It looks beautiful, feels very quick and has some of the drama of the Chim.

If you prefer open top motoring then the Boxster will be a very enticing choice and my opinion would be that you spend around £35k on a good used 718 S from a dealer, take the warranty and enjoy it from the get go. A tiv will be £16k (for an older model - prices appear to be rising!) but you will want to do upgrades. This will leave you without a car on occasions, unless you do everything at once, and depending on how far you go, could cost north of £10k. Shocks, air plenum systems, radiator and cooling, brakes, outriggers protection, revised lights all round, battery charger connections, the list goes on. It could almost cost you the price of the Boxster.

It's a really tough call fella; I loved both and would have either in a shot but the right car for me would probably be the Pork, if my head were in charge, or the TVR if my heart were in charge. One thing for me would be the fact that the TVR community are just the best bunch you can imagine. I have decided....ignore the money and get the Chim. Heart wins!

ChimpOnGas

Original Poster:

9,637 posts

178 months

Friday 29th April 2016
quotequote all
Johnniem said:
It's a really tough call fella; I loved both and would have either in a shot but the right car for me would probably be the Pork, if my head were in charge, or the TVR if my heart were in charge. One thing for me would be the fact that the TVR community are just the best bunch you can imagine. I have decided....ignore the money and get the Chim. Heart wins!
Right choice, anyone can own a Porsche, you just get your cheque book out and buy one.

There are thousands out there and while you cant deny the engineering superiority there's zero exclusivity with the Porsche, we all see them every day so they are effectively camouflaged by their very ubiquitous nature.

In an age where where machines just work and seldom need fixing, where if it goes wrong you throw it away and buy a new one or pay someone else to sort it for you.. our masculinity is under threat!

Back in the day when men where men if the family car went wrong Dad bought a Hains manual and got his spanners out to fix it, and so the TVR forces you back to that time where the man is under the car on Sunday while the woman cooks the Sunday roast. Unfashionable yes, politically incorrect.. definitely.

But wrong? .... No Way!

Choose a TVR and you're doing things differently, you're taking a risk but in theory the rewards are high, the truth is TVRs are so frustratingly close to greatness you are almost forced to follow the upgrade path in the hope you can eventually make the car what you know in your heart lurks beneath.

This is the beginning of two emotions...

1. Frustration

2. A bond with the car so strong it becomes a relationship

Just like a good woman your TVR will please and frustrate you in equal measures, it will force you to spend on her and only reward you every now and again.

But that's the magic, you'll never have such a relationship with your Porsche, it will work brilliantly but in doing so can never display the special flawed charisma of the petulant but beguiling TVR.

I started all this by saying the TVR makes great financial sense, and now I'm eulogising over the much deeper rewarding personality and ownership experience delivered by the TVR.

In summary the TVR is actually both good sense for the pocket and great sense for the heart, why would anyone choose a Porsche over that?

I'll tell you why... Because they are scared that's why, they know in they aren't they aren't really man enough to own one and if it did let them down one dark night they would probably end up crying at the side of the road like a frightened school girl!

There I said it, now tell me I'm wrong hehe

Edited by ChimpOnGas on Friday 29th April 19:09

medieval

1,499 posts

210 months

Friday 29th April 2016
quotequote all
Anyone can own a TVR - you just keep getting your cheque book out

Both TVRs and Porsches will cost you and both require a degree of commitment to be frank.

No wonder I am so broke that church mice offer to lend me cash...

Edited by medieval on Saturday 30th April 16:33

mph

2,316 posts

281 months

Friday 29th April 2016
quotequote all
My friends father has never owned a modern car. His daily driver for the last two years has been a Triumph 2500 saloon.

He uses it for everything from local running around to business trips to family holidays. It's never let him down.

A well maintained, regularly used classic, possibly with a couple of mods is certainly viable.


ClassiChimi

12,424 posts

148 months

Friday 29th April 2016
quotequote all
I have no idea if your right or wrong you wise fella but be eck I feel pumped after reading that,,,, we both share the great after market Ecu benefits that start to elevate your senses as to what's important about a Tvr and just how good they can be Dave.

I drove my car tonight for the thousandth time at least,,, had'nt driven it for at least 18 hours,,,,
Clear roads, sun setting and dry /damp/wet/dry conditions,,,
The noise, the sheer speed and acceleration, the wonderfully weighted steering, with the odd Mod like bigger brakes on top of your Ecu upgrades, stopping power that rivals many a good car,,, no hot start issues, all those misfires, a thing of the past,,
Tvr's can and are being made to a spec by enthusiastic owners that in my opinion makes them impossible to beat at the price range,,

The thrill of my evenings drive after so many thousands of miles I have done in my Tvr over the last few years says it all,,,
It's like the first time every time,,

I've long since believed that you buy a good car,,, and make it better, Tvr's are the perfect playground to get into with the huge array of aftermarket and race/sport parts available from lots of suppliers, we have this great community to share and develop these ideas and regardless of old Les boy we are making Tvr reliable and making the future safe for other guardians of our great cars,,,
The body won't rot, fking fantastic,, the Chassis is a few old tubes and some good welding,,,
Sort a good engine and wire the car with modern tech,,, it's not rocket science but will cost 10k at least,,, seems mad or does it,,,,,,,,,, if my calculations are correct, and my car stays fairly reliable,,, within 3-4 years I'll have saved a fortune compared to almost any other car I've considered that will even vaugely stay with a Tvr,,,
You can't forget also, these Chimaera's are serious long distance tourers, mine did 1000 miles in less than 24 hours,, it seemed like it was on tickover and barely noticed the drive,, I was completely bksed but hey, it's a mans car.

I started reading Chilli's post with trepidation thinking he's gonna defect,,, all I can say is I'm not the only one with fantastic man math skills.
You know it makes sense,, at the end of the day we can even go for super duper hyper expensive shocks and tubular wishbones which I'm sure would elevate the ride to a high level,, slowly do these things over years of ownership and you'll end up with the car we all know we have lurking inside each and every one of our man beast Tvr's

I'm a terrible worrier,, imagine owning a Tvr,, hehe yes it's hilarious I agree,, I still worry over the car bu tonight after months and months of daily driving with my new MBE Ecu and associated wiring and glorious mapping and timing,,,
Slowly accepting its become a different car, it really is reliable,, hate temping fate but it bloody well is.

Only time will tell but if the car holds together as one would expect then I'm looking at 10 years and maybe 60-100,000 miles of use with nothing but gearbox/diff and few electrical bits that may faulter some day. Bushes and rubber things wearing out but that happens to all cars,,, I'm no mechanic but even I managed to read up and change my water pump on the Tvr for a total of £56,,,, not everything Tvr is expensive, in fact it's all mostly cheap compared to other marks aftermarket products,,,



2OOM

374 posts

283 months

Saturday 30th April 2016
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That's 2 posts in this thread that had the sounds of "land of hope and glory" playing in my head .. and both very well put!! smile

ClassiChimi

12,424 posts

148 months

Saturday 30th April 2016
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Hey Graham,,how are you mate. smile
Yes and it's Britsh too,, fan bloody tactic. thumbup

2OOM

374 posts

283 months

Saturday 30th April 2016
quotequote all
ClassiChimi said:
Hey Graham,,how are you mate. smile
Yes and it's Britsh too,, fan bloody tactic. thumbup
Hi Alun! I'm very good thanks, I've just been for a little jaunt in the car and am now wearing that stupid TVR grin we all get after a drive in the sun biggrin, heading off to Gassan at the beginning of June on the bike, so the immediate future is looking very (rose)... I hope you're keeping well? smile

ClassiChimi

12,424 posts

148 months

Saturday 30th April 2016
quotequote all
I speak to my ex French girlfriend hehe and think,, st I made a mistake, the weathers been great for weeks,,,,,
I pulled the cover off the Triumph the other day and remembered I'd left the bike exactly as it was when I got back from my adventure in France,, flies,,and sand,,, smile so she's been fully cleaned up and I even had a blast on her,,, brilliant little bike I reckon, I'd imagined a ride today but it's hail storms so that's that idea out the window,,, those frenchies are lucky bds,, hehe

That ride through France,,,you can go so many different ways,,,
I've been looking at riding Portugal sometime,, boat down and ride from there.
Trouble is I like the French,,,, as you can imagine. hehe

I'm not joelous honest,,,,,,,,,
Enjoy mate and post a pic as my adventure seems like a dream far far away.
Good luck thumbup

Argent

478 posts

240 months

Saturday 30th April 2016
quotequote all
I recently drove a mate's 911 Carrera GTS PDK.

I drive a 2000 Griif 500 with a V8 Developments engine, Protechs and a proper geo.

The 911 was brilliant and very sophisticated with lots of buttons: sport, sport plus, sport exhaust etc.

The Griff is better.

I'm not even going to say IMHO.

A.

ETA - After owning five Tivs I have only had one breakdown years ago when a water hose let go, everything else has been consumables.

Edited by Argent on Saturday 30th April 20:23

NickOrangeCars

649 posts

138 months

Saturday 30th April 2016
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As some of you know I am a bit TVR mad - I have put a small fortune into making one of the most upgraded Chimaera's, previous had a Cerbera 4.2, and now have a Cerbera being turned into a GT car.

That all said, I recently started looking for a modern car that I could drive to the track (and could meet low noise levels) - I did quite a bit of reading on potentials, car magazines, youtube videos and lastly took advice from a few friends, one of which is a professional driver (in GT) - and the answer was get a Porsche Cayman, and specifically to get either a GT4 or Cayman R. The GT4 is running at a huge premium so looked around for a low-mileage Cayman R.

And let me also say I have for many years been a Porsche hater - I have driven 911's before and never liked them (and still don't) - but the Cayman R is a different game, light, stupidly agile and *huge* amounts of fun, it makes you feel like a driving god, drifting it around a corner is childs play, steering is a precise as supercars I have driven.

The Chimaera I love on the track - but lets be honest with ourselves they are still old cars, with old tech, I enjoy driving it on the track because of this, its proper fun fighting to keep it in a straight line, is it even a patch on the Cayman - go fking no, it makes the Chimaera feel like the reality, 20+ years old. Do I still love it of course!

But if I had this choice + had the money - then I would buy the Porsche without even thinking about it.

m4tti

5,426 posts

154 months

Saturday 30th April 2016
quotequote all
To be honest you could take the allowance then take the money spent on a chimera plus upgrades and you could buy a Nissan GT-R used which will urinate on anything this side of a mclaren p1.

The end.

NickOrangeCars

649 posts

138 months

Saturday 30th April 2016
quotequote all
m4tti said:
To be honest you could take the allowance then take the money spent on a chimera plus upgrades and you could buy a Nissan GT-R used which will urinate on anything this side of a mclaren p1.

The end.
GT-R? please, in a straight line quick, but actually not that quick I can name a long list of cars faster, but round corners, pretty much everything is quicker.

m4tti

5,426 posts

154 months

Saturday 30th April 2016
quotequote all
NickOrangeCars said:
GT-R? please, in a straight line quick, but actually not that quick I can name a long list of cars faster, but round corners, pretty much everything is quicker.
You've clearly never seen one at full tilt and the way it corrects itself. At the super car event last year literally nothing was as quick. It's nurburing time is astonishing at the price point what have you seen quicker at that price. Uhh no nothing.... Stop rambling your clearly deluded the times it puts down are clear evidence. And if you make up some story we'll know your talking complete bks as said earlier due to the nurburing times.

Edited by m4tti on Saturday 30th April 22:42