Modern Porsche - Vs - TVR Chimaera

Modern Porsche - Vs - TVR Chimaera

Author
Discussion

ChilliWhizz

11,990 posts

160 months

Monday 2nd May 2016
quotequote all
Dave, are you going through some kind of crises mate? Questioning previously made life choices is a sure sign of mid or late life anxiety.... If I can help in any way pm me.. I'm sure I'm not the only one who would be there for you....
Always here to help,
Chilli....
wink

QBee

20,903 posts

143 months

Monday 2nd May 2016
quotequote all
ChilliWhizz said:
Dave, are you going through some kind of crises mate? Questioning previously made life choices is a sure sign of mid or late life anxiety.... If I can help in any way pm me.. I'm sure I'm not the only one who would be there for you....
Always here to help,
Chilli....
wink
I think he has just spent some time in Panama, questioning the meaning of life, women and hats....

ChimpOnGas

Original Poster:

9,637 posts

178 months

Monday 2nd May 2016
quotequote all
QBee said:
ChilliWhizz said:
Dave, are you going through some kind of crises mate? Questioning previously made life choices is a sure sign of mid or late life anxiety.... If I can help in any way pm me.. I'm sure I'm not the only one who would be there for you....
Always here to help,
Chilli....
wink
I think he has just spent some time in Panama, questioning the meaning of life, women and hats....
thumbup

QBee

20,903 posts

143 months

Monday 2nd May 2016
quotequote all
ChimpOnGas said:
QBee said:
ChilliWhizz said:
Dave, are you going through some kind of crises mate? Questioning previously made life choices is a sure sign of mid or late life anxiety.... If I can help in any way pm me.. I'm sure I'm not the only one who would be there for you....
Always here to help,
Chilli....
wink
I think he has just spent some time in Panama, questioning the meaning of life, women and hats....
thumbup
.....it would seem all are as much of a mystery to him as they were before he went, as none of them come with a 500 page workshop manual coffee

Brerabit

74 posts

106 months

Monday 2nd May 2016
quotequote all


As you know Dave, our aims and appreciation of our Chimaera’s are fairly well aligned; where we differ is in their practicality as a daily driver.

For example, last week my itinerary, starting mid-morning on Monday from Birmingham, was a quick sprint to John Reid at Blackpool (lining up the imminent S10 conversion and 0.63 5th) then back to Preston to pick up a colleague before setting off to the east coast of Scotland for a two day live security exercise. Then leaving Scotland on Wednesday afternoon and back to Birmingham - via Preston, before rejoining the M6, where someone was saving me my usual place in the tailbacks, before eventually getting home at around 8:30 in the evening - relatively unfatigued. That journey was punctuated by a numerous hands-free phone calls and discussions about the success of the previous two days, much of which was taking place at ’significant’ speeds. It would just not be possible in the TVR and if you tried it you’d be a deaf, jibbering wreck with a sore bum after seven hours non-stop in the saddle.

In contrast to that kind of journey I’ll be taking the TVR to LeMans in July and then carrying on with what’s likely to be 2k plus trip round France and Spain. The difference being, I won’t have to be anywhere at anytime, the phone will be switched off and I’ll take whichever road takes my fancy - and I can’t think of any car I’d rather make that trip in. I’ve been very fortunate for a petrol-head in that through my work and personal indulgence, I’ve had the opportunity to drive an incredible range of cars from Miuras to Mustangs, GT40s to GT6s, Corniche to Caravelle and loads more - and I would still, hand on heart and without hesitation, pick the Chimaera for a trip like that.

However, were my work to change and I ceased being a road warrior for a living - I would drop the Jag in a blink because although I love the seamless power, poise and agility, I would no longer need the effortless high speed cruising and almost automated 'take-me-home' ability. I would get infinitely more joy out of squirting about in the TVR.

I looked long and hard for quite a while before choosing the Chimaera about a year ago. I had a TR4A when they were current and loved it, but rust was a problem then and now means a major spend on back to metal restoration - unless someone’s already done it and then it’s going to cost orders of magnitude more than a TVR, for something that’s a shadow of its performance - as is just about everything else. As you suggested, the comparison with a new Porsche is debatable - but at least it can be debated for a lot longer than you could sustain the argument for an MG, a Triumph or a lot of other classics costing several times the price of a Chimaera.

Apart from the noise, the power and the sheer ‘loud ’n proud’ attitude of the TVR, there’s also something else which I think is unique to the Chimaera and most of the other TVRs. If you choose an MG, Morgan, Healey, XK or any other of the great British sports cars, you’ll have the originality police breathing down your neck if you so much as even think about changing a Whitworth for a metric. I’ve heard you can get drummed out of the MGCC or whatever it’s called, if you don’t have a rusty split in the door skin just below the quarter light of your MGB.

In contrast, look at the vast range of mods which are discussed daily on this forum. From LS 6.3s to superchargers to Nitro - even LNG… nothing’s sacred. I can’t think of another owner group with the same open minded, ingenuity and resourcefulness that is repeatedly demonstrated here. I’ve fitted a modern ECU, changed my wheels, brakes, gearbox, suspension, hood, interior and it’s currently having electric PAS fitted - I’d probably be burnt at the stake in Browns Lane if I’d done any of this to an XK.

I was going to ignore the GTR distraction but it merits a brief comment.
It is without doubt a technological Tour de Force, to be able to generate that much power and then apply it so effectively to tarmac is nothing short of phenomenal. It’s a seriously rapid motor in the Top Trumps scheme of things - but that is missing the point. Drive it down the High St at a sensible speed and all but a few spotty schoolboys with one or two stray eyelashes on their upper lips wouldn’t give it a second glance. Then do the same in your Chimaera - I can almost guarantee you’ll get a smile, an appreciative nod or a thumbs up and certainly a few heads turning as it burbles along and you’ll never have to wait long before someone let’s you pull out. Your chances of someone giving way to you in the city in a Ferrari or a Porsche - or a GTR, are about as slim as a dipstick.

I don’t know quite what it is about my Chimaera but not only do people appear to have a soft spot for it - they seem to respect it - well done PW. I don’t know how much was down to genius, luck or sheer bloody mindedness but you got it so close that refining it is not just a labour of love - but almost an obligation.



ChimpOnGas

Original Poster:

9,637 posts

178 months

Monday 2nd May 2016
quotequote all
Brerabit said:
I don’t know quite what it is about my Chimaera but not only do people appear to have a soft spot for it - they seem to respect it - well done PW. I don’t know how much was down to genius, luck or sheer bloody mindedness but you got it so close that refining it is not just a labour of love - but almost an obligation.
The first thing PW did when he took over was to start phasing out the Wedge models, iconic as they were they were also only aesthetically fashionable for a very narrow window of time when compared with other designs.

PW was a classic car fan at heart, and a classic car fan that found himself running a low volume car company during the biggest classic car boom to date, it really shouldn't be a surprise to any of us that he rushed the "S" model into production by recycling and adapting the old "M" body moulds.

Very soon the expensive to build and now very unfashionable Wedge was discontinued, the classic car boom continued and the "S" hit a marketing bullseye, but it was a rush job so while PW was happy to continually develop and improve the model it would seem clear his objective was take the good from the "S" but start with a clean piece of paper to properly remove the bad.

The Griffith & Chimaera models are often touted as the landmark models for TVR and that's certainly true, but the real landmark car for TVR was the "S" because it showed the way back towards the traditional sports car look the public wanted and so provided the profits that allowed the Griff & Chim to be born. The commercials don't lie, for without the "S" success there quite simply would have been no more TVR.

If you look at the V8-S it's pretty clear PW and his team were using it as a test bed for what was to come, so sticking to the tried and tested traditional sports car theme that proved so successful with the "S" so was born the Griffith...

Er hang on a minute, that's not right is it, while under the skin the Griffith was an updated and developed for the modern age old school design it's looks were very forward thinking. So PW with his love for things more traditional looking and his business brain telling him to follow the successful recipe of the former "S" so created the Griffith's more curvy sister the Chimaera.

The rest is history, not only were all the limitations of the "S" removed in a stroke but the Chimaera delivered a prettier and more traditionally styled car that appealed to a much larger audience than the somewhat intimidating (to many buyers) and less practical Griffith.

So by following his instincts and personal preferences for the traditional classic sports cars of old, by taking the sales success of the "S" and developing it into something much much better using the clean sheet approach PW gave TVR their most successful model by a huge margin that was never repeated.

Indeed it was the Chimaera that allowed the development of the models that followed for without the Chimaaera TVR would have been dead in the water trying unsuccessfully to survive on the rather limited sales of their Griffith & Cerbera models. Even small production companies like TVR need a certain level of volume to generate sufficient profit to stay alive, but more importantly they need the profits to re-invest in the next model that most come to sustain sales in a competitive market.

PW wanted (even needed) to make more of the new models than ever before both to keep pace with the competition but also because he clearly wanted to become a proper car producer and to get away from the parts bin heritage, of course proper car producers make their own major components especially the engine which in many respects defines a sports car and it's brand. This as we know is where things went very wrong for TVR but the same history also allows us to understand why the Chimaera was so successful in its day and equally importantly points us to why its the most reliable and painless to own TVR to own by far.

Quite simply the Chimaera was the last and so best developed TVR that still used an engine from a major manufacturer with a decent development budget and also the last model before TVR tried to get too clever with the electronics. The Chimaera itself has a number school boy wiring mistakes so what the hell made them think Doris could wire up a Cerbera and reliably make all those little control units that sit in the boot is totally beyond me.

In summary the Chimaera was the best developed TVR using proven components before PW tried to get too clever, or at least before he tried to introduce designs that were too clever & complex for the limited skills many of his workforce possessed. If you then consider it was by far the best selling TVR ever we are left with enough supply to keep the values down compared with the other lower production models of the 90's & 2ks.

And as we all know "supply & demand" is the key driver of values meaning in this case the problematic Cerbera, the less reliable speed six "T" cars and the less practical Griffith command stronger money. So for the smart amongst us that chose the Chimaera we get a more reliable, more practical and less costly to own car we can easily repair ourselves at a significant saving over the other TVR models.

For these reasons as it was when new in the 90's it is today, the best value and safest way to get into the TVR brand by far!



NB: The "Panama Plague" which is what I'm calling the nasty virus I imported from Central America has left me completely incapacitated and so bored I find myself writing all the above bull on PH. Here's to a speedy recovery frown














Edited by ChimpOnGas on Monday 2nd May 22:13

QBee

20,903 posts

143 months

Monday 2nd May 2016
quotequote all
Just wondering if any of your Facebook photos might give a clue as to where you caught it? whistle

Wherever, lets hope you get well soon Dave. thumbup

OleVix

1,438 posts

147 months

Monday 2nd May 2016
quotequote all
ChimpOnGas said:
Brerabit said:
I don’t know quite what it is about my Chimaera but not only do people appear to have a soft spot for it - they seem to respect it - well done PW. I don’t know how much was down to genius, luck or sheer bloody mindedness but you got it so close that refining it is not just a labour of love - but almost an obligation.
The first thing PW did when he took over was to start phasing out the Wedge models, iconic as they were they were also only anaesthetically fashionable for a very narrow window of time when compared with other designs.

PW was a classic car fan at heart, and a classic car fan that found himself running a low volume car company during the biggest classic car boom to date, it really shouldn't be a surprise to any of us that he rushed the "S" model into production by recycling and adapting the old "M" body moulds.

Very soon the expensive to build and now very unfashionable Wedge was discontinued, the classic car boom continued and the "S" hit a marketing bullseye, but it was a rush job so while PW was happy to continually develop and improve the model it would seem clear his objective was take the good from the "S" but start with a clean piece of paper to properly remove the bad.

The Griffith & Chimaera models are often touted as the landmark models for TVR and that's certainly true, but the real landmark car for TVR was the "S" because it showed the way back towards the traditional sports car look the public wanted and so provided the profits that allowed the Griff & Chim to be born. The commercials don't lie, for without the "S" success there quite simply would have been no more TVR.

If you look at the V8-S it's pretty clear PW and his team were using it as a test bed for what was to come, so sticking to the tried and tested traditional sports car theme that proved so successful with the "S" so was born the Griffith...

Er hang on a minute, that's not right is it, while under the skin the Griffith was an updated and developed for the modern age old school design it's looks were very forward thinking. So PW with his love for things more traditional looking and his business brain telling him to follow the successful recipe of the former "S" so created the Griffith's more curvy sister the Chimaera.

The rest is history, not only were all the limitations of the "S" removed in a stroke but the Chimaera delivered a prettier and more traditionally styled car that appealed to a much larger audience than the somewhat intimidating (to many buyers) and less practical Griffith.

So by following his instincts and personal preferences for the traditional classic sports cars of old, by taking the sales success of the "S" and developing it into something much much better using the clean sheet approach PW gave TVR their most successful model by a huge margin that was never repeated.

Indeed it was the Chimaera that allowed the development of the models that followed for without the Chimaaera TVR would have been dead in the water trying unsuccessfully to survive on the rather limited sales of their Griffith & Cerbera models. Even small production companies like TVR need a certain level of volume to generate sufficient profit to stay alive, but more importantly they need the profits to re-invest in the next model that most come to sustain sales in a competitive market.

PW wanted (even needed) to make more of the new models than ever before both to keep pace with the competition but also because he clearly wanted to become a proper car producer and to get away from the parts bin heritage, of course proper car producers make their own major components especially the engine which in many respects defines a sports car and it's brand. This as we know is where things went very wrong for TVR but the same history also allows us to understand why the Chimaera was so successful in its day and equally importantly points us to why its the most reliable and painless to own TVR to own by far.

Quite simply the Chimaera was the last and so best developed TVR that still used an engine from a major manufacturer with a decent development budget and also the last model before TVR tried to get too clever with the electronics. The Chimaera itself has a number school boy wiring mistakes so what the hell made them think Doris could wire up a Cerbera and reliably make all those little control units that sit in the boot is totally beyond me.

In summary the Chimaera was the best developed TVR using proven components before PW tried to get too clever, or at least before he tried to introduce designs that were too clever & complex for the limited skills many of his workforce possessed. If you then consider it was by far the best selling TVR ever we are left with enough supply to keep the values down compared with the other lower production models of the 90's & 2ks.

And as we all know "supply & demand" is the key driver of values meaning in this case the problematic Cerbera, the less reliable speed six "T" cars and the less practical Griffith command stronger money. So for the smart amongst us that chose the Chimaera we get a more reliable, more practical and less costly to own car we can easily repair ourselves at a significant saving over the other TVR models.

For these reasons as it was when new in the 90's it is today, the best value and safest way to get into the TVR brand by far!
Edited by ChimpOnGas on Monday 2nd May 20:20
Both Brerabit and Chimpondave, thank you for those words, I'ts exactly what we love and what makes the Chim our "nobrainer" choice. The Chimaera gets you into rare sportscars-territory without breaking the bank. The smiles per pound is unbeatable!

ChimpOnGas

Original Poster:

9,637 posts

178 months

Monday 2nd May 2016
quotequote all
OleVix said:
Both Brerabit and Chimpondave, thank you for those words, I'ts exactly what we love and what makes the Chim our "nobrainer" choice. The Chimaera gets you into rare sportscars-territory without breaking the bank. The smiles per pound is unbeatable!
Chimpondave

Brilliant Ole, love it rofl

Brerabit

74 posts

106 months

Monday 2nd May 2016
quotequote all
‘Anaesthetically fashionable’ maybe an insightful cultural observation, possibly induced by your current febrile condition or just a casualty of pre dick tiff text. Either way, I hope you get well soon -even if it does mean you’ve less time to contribute the kind of post we’ve come to expect from you and I’ve just enjoyed reading.

ChimpOnGas

Original Poster:

9,637 posts

178 months

Monday 2nd May 2016
quotequote all
Brerabit said:
‘Anaesthetically fashionable’
rofl

Smell Chucker at it's breast laugh

Johnniem

2,660 posts

222 months

Tuesday 3rd May 2016
quotequote all
I suspect the GTR 'issue' has now gone away but I thought I might get this in whilst we are here....annual Eurohoon to Germany, Austria (Brenner Pass) Italy, (Stelvio Pass), many mountains and back again in my (then) Chim, two other Chims, two Tuscans, one 63 AMG Merc, a DB9 and a GTR. Which one broke down? The GTR. Couldnt be fixed by Nissan in Breschia or Innsbruck. Flatbedded home the following week. Money back as the car was unreliable and not fit for purpose. Well, it should have done the mountain roads all day long without hitch. No argument from the dealer from whom it was bought two months earlier. Mate who experienced this bought a Cayman for the next years hoon. I was so impressed (I had always loved the shape) and bought it from him two months after we returned home.

I loved the Chim and would still have one but the Cayman is the most awesome drivers car I have ever experienced. For me, as mentioned before, it's all about the drive (oh, and the drama!).

If anyone ever decides to 'go modern' do consider the Porsche Cayman S before going anywhere else. I guess the Coxster is a possibility but it'll depend on whether you like the look of it. I don't particularly.

Porsche GT4 - Top Gear sports car of the year 2016 (quite how they choose a 2016 winner before the end of 2016 I know not!

Long live TVR! I am sure it wont be long before a fully sorted, low mileage Chim is north of the cost of it's Cayman equivalent. Jus' sayin'.