Leggiest Chim?
Discussion
While pondering my next buy I've been wondering whether to take advantage of one of the cars advertised at a lower price apparently due to having higher mileage.
Do they represent great value for money or asking for trouble as one by one things wear out or go pop?
Does anyone have a leggy Chim they've been running for years or tat they have bought with high miles? What are your experiences?
And who thinks they've got the leggiest Chim on the road???
Cheers all
Do they represent great value for money or asking for trouble as one by one things wear out or go pop?
Does anyone have a leggy Chim they've been running for years or tat they have bought with high miles? What are your experiences?
And who thinks they've got the leggiest Chim on the road???
Cheers all
Hope the post above sheds some light.
It's simply down to who's owned and maintained it, as some of these cars have been through a number of owners By now it's difficult to know how the cars been treated,,
Don't get me wrong, they need a good thrashing every now and again, I think it does them good, but thrashing them all the time reminds me of a Mini I had, an old lady owned it for years and it never broke down, I owned it six months and it was f
ked. 
It's simply down to who's owned and maintained it, as some of these cars have been through a number of owners By now it's difficult to know how the cars been treated,,
Don't get me wrong, they need a good thrashing every now and again, I think it does them good, but thrashing them all the time reminds me of a Mini I had, an old lady owned it for years and it never broke down, I owned it six months and it was f
ked. All down to maintenance at the end of the day and service records, there are owners on here with cars well over 100,000 miles which have been perfectly reliable in their ownership, then there are people who have purchased low mileage cars which are 15 years old and had nothing but trouble. These cars need to be used, its no good it just sitting in the garage and only pulling it out every couple of months for a show they like to be driven.
As said above, I'm not sure you can draw any conclusions - every car is individual.
The Range Rover engine is good for 200,000 miles all day long.
As for the rest of the mechanicals, as long as well maintained they should be fine too.
They all seem to need the clutch replacing sooner or later, chassis outriggers are a source of expense, but the rest is just maintenance.
I have had more trouble with my most recent Saab.
The Range Rover engine is good for 200,000 miles all day long.
As for the rest of the mechanicals, as long as well maintained they should be fine too.
They all seem to need the clutch replacing sooner or later, chassis outriggers are a source of expense, but the rest is just maintenance.
I have had more trouble with my most recent Saab.
As said above, I'm not sure you can draw any conclusions - every car is individual.
The Range Rover engine is good for 200,000 miles all day long.
As for the rest of the mechanicals, as long as well maintained they should be fine too.
They all seem to need the clutch replacing sooner or later, chassis outriggers are a source of expense, but the rest is just maintenance.
I have had more trouble with my most recent Saab.
The Range Rover engine is good for 200,000 miles all day long.
As for the rest of the mechanicals, as long as well maintained they should be fine too.
They all seem to need the clutch replacing sooner or later, chassis outriggers are a source of expense, but the rest is just maintenance.
I have had more trouble with my most recent Saab.
These cars need fettling to give their best service, almost regardless of age or mileage.
If you don't drive the car, you won't know what to fettle or whether your last attempt at fettling was wholly successful.
If oyu intend to use the car, one with miles & losts of documentation on what's been fettled & run by an involved and knowledgeable owner would normally be the best-case scenario.
If you don't drive the car, you won't know what to fettle or whether your last attempt at fettling was wholly successful.
If oyu intend to use the car, one with miles & losts of documentation on what's been fettled & run by an involved and knowledgeable owner would normally be the best-case scenario.
As someone else has said previously ... 100,000 miles on a 20 year old car is 5,000 a year which is nothing and in my opinion I'd rather buy one that's been used frequently (but well maintained) rather than one which has done a few thousand miles a year but only taken out to be thrashed from the off.
One thing is for certain - if you use one as a daily driver there is no way in hell that you can thrash it all the time, your license will be gone in a month!
Phil
One thing is for certain - if you use one as a daily driver there is no way in hell that you can thrash it all the time, your license will be gone in a month!
Phil
I bought one a couple of months ago.
Looked at 6 in total, before going to look at the one I ended up buying from Tony Gilbert. It was the highest mileage of the 6 I looked at (and the other 8 Tony had in stock). The miles were irrelevant compared to the work done recently for me, it's had outriggers, new hood and a Powers engine rebuild in the last 18 months. Once I had a good look at the file, its had lots of regular maintenance plus a diff rebuild in the last 5 yrs. The interior is as good as any I looked it, other than some veneer cracks.
It drove as well or better than the others, has great appearance (formula red with cream/black interior). So I bought it.
It had done almost 115k miles when I got it, and is up to 117K now. It has had paintwork in the past, so looks fresh and shiny, and I'm using it every opportunity. I've tidied some corners, re-taped some wiring, fixed the mirrors and wipers.
As said before, its 22yrs old, done 5k miles a year average, and been well maintained. It'll need maintained, it'll break down, but no-more than the 50k miler that would have been thousands more to buy, and then been worried about putting the miles onto it and depressing the value.
Unless it's a show or garage queen, buy one on condition/history and looks, and enjoy driving it.
Cheers,
Iain
Looked at 6 in total, before going to look at the one I ended up buying from Tony Gilbert. It was the highest mileage of the 6 I looked at (and the other 8 Tony had in stock). The miles were irrelevant compared to the work done recently for me, it's had outriggers, new hood and a Powers engine rebuild in the last 18 months. Once I had a good look at the file, its had lots of regular maintenance plus a diff rebuild in the last 5 yrs. The interior is as good as any I looked it, other than some veneer cracks.
It drove as well or better than the others, has great appearance (formula red with cream/black interior). So I bought it.
It had done almost 115k miles when I got it, and is up to 117K now. It has had paintwork in the past, so looks fresh and shiny, and I'm using it every opportunity. I've tidied some corners, re-taped some wiring, fixed the mirrors and wipers.
As said before, its 22yrs old, done 5k miles a year average, and been well maintained. It'll need maintained, it'll break down, but no-more than the 50k miler that would have been thousands more to buy, and then been worried about putting the miles onto it and depressing the value.
Unless it's a show or garage queen, buy one on condition/history and looks, and enjoy driving it.
Cheers,
Iain
I bought my 4l on 104K, 8 years ago.
Its now on 135K
Only real issues since then:
- camshaft wear (was worn when i got it - replacing it increased the estimated power the fly from 170=>220bhp
-radiator leak 5 years ago
-misfire - cured by replacing leads, coil, plus keeping an eye on the ECU/loom connection with a liberall dab of WD40
-erm... the odd bulb?
-stuff (eg brakes, belts) wearing out or due replacement...same as on any old car really)
Buy on condition, and in your mental 'cost to buy' calc, add on the cost of doing all the wear/preventative maintenance stuff that you cannot verify has already been/does not need doing...(eg belts etc).
If you are looking at is as a 'longer termer'...if chassis has not been done at some point, assume it will need to be done at some during your ownership, unless you can verify it is in VGC (not really possible without lifting the body)
Its now on 135K
Only real issues since then:
- camshaft wear (was worn when i got it - replacing it increased the estimated power the fly from 170=>220bhp
-radiator leak 5 years ago
-misfire - cured by replacing leads, coil, plus keeping an eye on the ECU/loom connection with a liberall dab of WD40
-erm... the odd bulb?
-stuff (eg brakes, belts) wearing out or due replacement...same as on any old car really)
Buy on condition, and in your mental 'cost to buy' calc, add on the cost of doing all the wear/preventative maintenance stuff that you cannot verify has already been/does not need doing...(eg belts etc).
If you are looking at is as a 'longer termer'...if chassis has not been done at some point, assume it will need to be done at some during your ownership, unless you can verify it is in VGC (not really possible without lifting the body)
Edited by HiAsAKite on Sunday 28th August 23:15
Totally agree with the comments, the mileage is irrevelant to a degree if the right work has been carried out. Use them regularly and spend money where its needed and they are very reliable cars. I had a rover once that was 15 years old with next to no miles and within 3-6 months it had problems eveywhere....yes on a young car very low mileage is good but on 15-20 year old I think its a bit concerning. I'm not that interested in what was done many years ago, if the money has been spent recently in the right places thats the key.
Two words... "Triggers Broom"
A high mileage car is likely to have had a lot of work and money spent replacing those worn parts so I see no issue.
Different kettle of fish, however my mondeo has £160k and is yet to have let me down, the 18 month old 16,000 mile Range Rover in the other had......
A high mileage car is likely to have had a lot of work and money spent replacing those worn parts so I see no issue.
Different kettle of fish, however my mondeo has £160k and is yet to have let me down, the 18 month old 16,000 mile Range Rover in the other had......
Milky400 said:
Two words... "Triggers Broom"
A high mileage car is likely to have had a lot of work and money spent replacing those worn parts so I see no issue.
Different kettle of fish, however my mondeo has £160k and is yet to have let me down, the 18 month old 16,000 mile Range Rover in the other had......
^^This^^A high mileage car is likely to have had a lot of work and money spent replacing those worn parts so I see no issue.
Different kettle of fish, however my mondeo has £160k and is yet to have let me down, the 18 month old 16,000 mile Range Rover in the other had......
Finally someone said it
A TVR that's done over 200,000 miles but had nearly everything replaced doesn't prove TVR made durable product, quite the opposite in fact, what it says to me is.... it's a high maintenance car.
A Ford Mondeo on the other hand that's covered 160,000 miles and needed next to nothing replacing demonstrates just how good modern cars are.
Every so often we see posts like this on here where people claim their TVR has completed big mileages, this seems on the face of it quite impressive until you scratch the surface and find their 140,000 RV8 engine needed it's first rebuild at 70,000 miles and lets be honest with ourselves here that's not in anyway demonstrating a durable power plant!
The ones I like to hear about are the the Chimaeras that have done 130,000 miles or more with nothing much more than a cam and a clutch or two. I've followed used P38 Range Rovers for a while now and had a good chat with my local Range Rover specialist to get an idea of how many miles this engine will typically achieve if well maintained. My research seems to suggest 140,000 is a good run for a well maintained RV8 and I think the P38 Range Rover offers a fair barometer, while it many not get revved as much as a TVR it will certainly have a harder life pulling a much heavier and less aerodynamic vehicle down the road along with the odd horse box... all of which amounts to a lot more work than a little light TVR will ever put on it's engine.
I would prefer people to be truthful about the longevity of their TVR before repairs are needed as it would present a much more realistic picture to us all, the "Trigger's Broom" cars that brag of stratospheric mileages really tell us nothing at all
ChimpOnGas said:
^^This^^
Finally someone said it
A TVR that's done over 200,000 miles but had nearly everything replaced doesn't prove TVR made durable product, quite the opposite in fact, what it says to me is.... it's a high maintenance car.
A Ford Mondeo on the other hand that's covered 160,000 miles and needed next to nothing replacing demonstrates just how good modern cars are.
The difference is that the TVR is probably better than when it came out of the factory in several important ways, while the Mundano is on worn-out dampers and rubbers, has a duct taped rear bumper and several warning lights on permanently - after all it's worth no more than a few hundred quid...Finally someone said it
A TVR that's done over 200,000 miles but had nearly everything replaced doesn't prove TVR made durable product, quite the opposite in fact, what it says to me is.... it's a high maintenance car.
A Ford Mondeo on the other hand that's covered 160,000 miles and needed next to nothing replacing demonstrates just how good modern cars are.
Soldiering on for many miles on minimal maintenance doesn't say a lot about the car's quality above being a measure of basic reliability (i.e. the car still goes and passes MOT) - it says everything about the owner/driver's interest to keep everything in tip top order (or not)...
After all, you can easily do a couple of hundred Thousand miles with an RV8 on little more than oil changes if you don't mind the drop off in performance caused by round camshaft lobes...
900T-R said:
The difference is that the TVR is probably better than when it came out of the factory in several important ways, while the Mundano is on worn-out dampers and rubbers, has a duct taped rear bumper and several warning lights on permanently - after all it's worth no more than a few hundred quid...
Soldiering on for many miles on minimal maintenance doesn't say a lot about the car's quality above being a measure of basic reliability (i.e. the car still goes and passes MOT) - it says everything about the owner/driver's interest to keep everything in tip top order (or not)...
After all, you can easily do a couple of hundred Thousand miles with an RV8 on little more than oil changes if you don't mind the drop off in performance caused by round camshaft lobes...
OI..................Soldiering on for many miles on minimal maintenance doesn't say a lot about the car's quality above being a measure of basic reliability (i.e. the car still goes and passes MOT) - it says everything about the owner/driver's interest to keep everything in tip top order (or not)...
After all, you can easily do a couple of hundred Thousand miles with an RV8 on little more than oil changes if you don't mind the drop off in performance caused by round camshaft lobes...
Leave my Mondeo alone you big bad smelly bully...
900T-R said:
The difference is that the TVR is probably better than when it came out of the factory in several important ways, while the Mundano is on worn-out dampers and rubbers, has a duct taped rear bumper and several warning lights on permanently - after all it's worth no more than a few hundred quid...
Soldiering on for many miles on minimal maintenance doesn't say a lot about the car's quality above being a measure of basic reliability (i.e. the car still goes and passes MOT) - it says everything about the owner/driver's interest to keep everything in tip top order (or not)...
After all, you can easily do a couple of hundred Thousand miles with an RV8 on little more than oil changes if you don't mind the drop off in performance caused by round camshaft lobes...
But Eric Soldiering on for many miles on minimal maintenance doesn't say a lot about the car's quality above being a measure of basic reliability (i.e. the car still goes and passes MOT) - it says everything about the owner/driver's interest to keep everything in tip top order (or not)...
After all, you can easily do a couple of hundred Thousand miles with an RV8 on little more than oil changes if you don't mind the drop off in performance caused by round camshaft lobes...
To follow your example my original Bilstein dampers were totally worn out by 30,000 miles as were the nasty Triumph TR6 type drop links along with a few suspension bushes, if we had to replace the dampers and other associated suspension elements on our everyday cars at 30,000 miles we would be up in arms.
Large manufactures know this; they spend millions on development to ensure all components are at least 100,000 miles durable, and we can't excuse the TVR because it's a sports car because Porsche show us you can have a great handling and reliable car in this category and still offer your customers industry levels of suspension durability and service life.
I'm not down on TVR, I love mine, but I wouldn’t call it a durable car like a Porsche, that’s not to say Porsche don't have their issues... the early Boxter engines being just one case in point. However in order we don't do the OP a disservice we need to put away our rose tinted TVR spectacles for a minute because deep down we all know overall a Porsche is made a lot better than any TVR ever was. Of course to counter this just like something British from the 1960's the TVR's saving grace is it's a much simpler car in the first place, so there's a lot less to go wrong than a Porsche and when it does go wrong it's typically easy and cheaper to repair.
If the OP is considering a high mileage car he needs to really get underneath what's been replaced, he also needs to accept what he's looking at is unlikely to be anything even close to a "zero miles" restoration, at best it'll be a high mileage car that's enjoyed regular maintenance and repairs on a piece meal basis as and when required. The uncomfortable truth is a full "zero miles" restoration on a Chimaera could easily eat up over £20k and quite possibly a lot more because like any car (even a simple one) the Chimaera has literally thousands of electrical, trim and mechanical components all of which are subject to wear through use and age degradation especially if it's not been used regularly.
If absolutely everything (and I mean everything) has been rebuilt or replaced with new then yes I would accept the high mileage car could be a bargain, but that's just not the case here. At best what the OP will be looking at would be described as a rolling restoration where hopefully someone else has taken a hit on the big bills like an engine rebuild. Even then how do you establish the quality of the engine rebuild or if corners were cut? at least with a Solihull built RV8 you got OEM levels of engine machining assembly... assuming we're not talking about the ones TVR messed about with too much that is
.I guarantee the higher mileage car will still hide bills because not everything will have been replaced, that’s not to say it won't be a good buy but the OP does need to properly get underneath what he's buying, what’s been done to the car and how well it's been done too.
Buying any used car is somewhat a gamble, but buying a used TVR that’s 20 years old or more with 100,000 miles on it changes the odds considerably. Flying in the face of TVR's appalling reputation we all want to believe the Chimaera is a durable and reliable car and in many ways it can be, but I'm sorry if the OP wants the truth those high mileage cars he's considering demand very close inspection indeed, and an open mind to the kind of issues (read bills) that could present themselves in the not so distant future.
I wish the OP well with his search and will end by saying with a small amount of ownership commitment a Chimaera can indeed be a fantastic buy, but please view your TVR as you would a classic car and don't expect it to be as durable as a Porsche or a Honda S2000. Finally buy the best one you can afford and make sure this still leaves a slush fund in your bank to cover any unforeseen expenses.
Get right and you'll have the best value traditional classic British sports car on the market today, get it wrong and your TVR experience could be a very different one. I wouldn’t want the OP to have two years of painful ownership only to give in, sell up, and join the majority of car enthusiasts that suck their teeth when they hear the letters TVR
Happy Chimaera hunting to the OP
Dave.
Has anyone mentioned http://www.findasportscar.co.uk/ ?
I used Rob's services many years ago when I found what I thought was a good Chimaera 450 that had the things I wanted. Rob carried out his inspection and issued a full report. I bought the car and had 7 fantastic years with it. Put it in the hands of the experts OP, unless you are, unlike me, good on the tools and have big knowledge of what to look for.
JM
I used Rob's services many years ago when I found what I thought was a good Chimaera 450 that had the things I wanted. Rob carried out his inspection and issued a full report. I bought the car and had 7 fantastic years with it. Put it in the hands of the experts OP, unless you are, unlike me, good on the tools and have big knowledge of what to look for.
JM
ChimpOnGas said:
ut Eric
To follow your example my original Bilstein dampers were totally worn out by 30,000 miles as were the nasty Triumph TR6 type drop links along with a few suspension bushes, if we had to replace the dampers and other associated suspension elements on our everyday cars at 30,000 miles we would be up in arms.
If people cared as much about the roadability of their Mundanos as we do about our sports cars (and used them accordingly), they would've replaced their dampers and suspension rubbers more often, too.To follow your example my original Bilstein dampers were totally worn out by 30,000 miles as were the nasty Triumph TR6 type drop links along with a few suspension bushes, if we had to replace the dampers and other associated suspension elements on our everyday cars at 30,000 miles we would be up in arms.
Apart from that, Bilstein monotubes (B6) are at OEM level considered to be a high end product that only gets featured on the more expensive lines, e.g. AMG-Mercedes etc. I can assure you their component and engineering quality is an order of magnitude better than what's under our daily snotters.
Of course, they get a bit more of a pounding under a car with a couple of hundred horses backed up with the torque curve of a steam train that is likely to be driven more often on country roads than taken up and down motorways like your Toyota... When you get to major manufacturers' cars of similar performance and target audience, component life and overall reliability tends to suffer, too.
Owing to their simplicity, liberal use of componentry from mass market cars and low weight, TVRs are actually a better long-term bet than most. You might baulk at spending upwards of £20K to return a 15-20 year old one to 'zero mileage condition' - try that with a Porsche or Ferrari of the same era and you'd better put a '0' behind that number...
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