Discussion
Ummm- if you set the timing with a strobe, it will always represent when the arc occurs, irrelevant to the spark plug type or gap but having said that- lets say you opened up your plug gap to 1mm, it will take longer for the HT to rise to a point that it arcs, so delaying the firing point fractionally, so it would make sense to double check the timing having messed around with either the gap or the electrode shape.
On the emissions side, Id expect the hydrocarbons to improve- this is basically fuel that has not ignited fully, but the catalysts deals with most of it. Thinking about it a non catalyst car would make a better test bed as the HC content will be far higher at the tail pipe and any decrease will be more visible.
On the emissions side, Id expect the hydrocarbons to improve- this is basically fuel that has not ignited fully, but the catalysts deals with most of it. Thinking about it a non catalyst car would make a better test bed as the HC content will be far higher at the tail pipe and any decrease will be more visible.
blitzracing said:
Ummm- if you set the timing with a strobe, it will always represent when the arc occurs, irrelevant to the spark plug type or gap but having said that- lets say you opened up your plug gap to 1mm, it will take longer for the HT to rise to a point that it arcs, so delaying the firing point fractionally, so it would make sense to double check the timing having messed around with either the gap or the electrode shape.
On the emissions side, Id expect the hydrocarbons to improve- this is basically fuel that has not ignited fully, but the catalysts deals with most of it. Thinking about it a non catalyst car would make a better test bed as the HC content will be far higher at the tail pipe and any decrease will be more visible.
I've got a de cat original Y piece somewhere and standard pipe! On the emissions side, Id expect the hydrocarbons to improve- this is basically fuel that has not ignited fully, but the catalysts deals with most of it. Thinking about it a non catalyst car would make a better test bed as the HC content will be far higher at the tail pipe and any decrease will be more visible.
But I'll be buggered if I'm swapping that over.
Maybe I should, and have another mappping session!
If it was a Clive Y I'd do it.
Hmm the results will be marred by my Cat.
I understand what your saying about a bigger plug gap Mark, I checked with my mapper before my last plug change and more of an experiment from my side I went to 0.9 mm on 7's which is just about acceptable.
I've not noticed any real difference with the bigger gap and if I do fit the iridium ones I'll leave the gaps as NGK set them, (I'll check them of course )
I've been getting a bit of fouling with the 7's
Bit sooty
I do on occasion do short journeys, typically I was taking my grandson to school during the summer, only a few miles so never really upto temps then let it stand and the same thing later in the day, not great!
i was going to do some service work including these plugs then take it over to Powers for Jason to check over the MBE but I'm leaning on taking it to Powers then deciding if these plugs will be suitable.
At the end of the day Dom built this engine and Jason mapped it so I'll go with there advice.
Very interesting points been raised and many a fact learnt by us numpties so great info guys.
blitzracing said:
Ummm- if you set the timing with a strobe, it will always represent when the arc occurs, irrelevant to the spark plug type or gap but having said that- lets say you opened up your plug gap to 1mm, it will take longer for the HT to rise to a point that it arcs, so delaying the firing point fractionally, so it would make sense to double check the timing having messed around with either the gap or the electrode shape.
.
I am beginning to wish I just went for conventional 6 rated plug!.
WokingWedger said:
I am beginning to wish I just went for conventional 6 rated plug!
Mate, just fit your BPR6EIX, don't listen to all the scaremongering it's total nonsense.NGK themselves recommend the BPR6EIX as a direct upgrade to the BPR6ES and the BPR6ES is the plug they've recommended for the Rover V8 engine for over 25 years!
Every car NGK ever said should run on a set of BPR6ES can run BPR6EIX, which lets face it is literally thousands of vehicles that are expected to be driven in lots of different ways, using a vast array of engine configurations, capacities and numbers of cylinders.
So that means anything and everything fitted with one of, (if not the) most common spark plugs in the world (the BPR6ES) can now happily run the BPR6EIX with absolutely no risk whatsoever..... period!
If you're still not convinced the BPR6EIX plugs will be absolutely fine in your TVR consider that I ran them of petrol only for literally thousands of miles as have others like QBee, all we've found is the car idles smoother and is easier to manoeuvre at low speeds, trust me mate... there are only benefits to fitting BPR6EIX plugs.
Finally I ran these plugs for many more thousands of miles on LPG, which burns a little hotter and is much harder to strike, once again they performed absolutely perfectly. If they survive and work well on LPG you aren't even coming close to stretching them on petrol.
These are both the facts from NGK themselves and the results of my thousands of real world testing miles in a TVR Chimaera. Trust me, BPR6EIX plugs are 100% safe in your TVR and will only give you benefits, try them and report back here on how you find them.
Edited by ChimpOnGas on Thursday 8th December 09:20
ChimpOnGas said:
1. Mate, just fit your BPR6EIX, don't listen to all the scaremongering it's total nonsense.
2. NGK themselves recommend the BPR6EIX as a direct upgrade to the BPR6ES and the BPR6ES is the plug they've recommended for the Rover V8 engine for over 25 years!
3. Every car NGK ever said should run on a set of BPR6ES can run BPR6EIX, which lets face it is literally thousands of vehicles that are expected to be driven in lots of different ways, using a vast array of engine configurations, capacities and numbers of cylinders.
4. So that means anything and everything fitted with one of, (if not the) most common spark plugs in the world (the BPR6ES) can now happily run the BPR6EIX with absolutely no risk whatsoever..... period!
5. If you're still not convinced the BPR6EIX plugs will be absolutely fine in your TVR consider that I ran them of petrol only for literally thousands of miles as have others like QBee, all we've found is the car idles smoother and is easier to manoeuvre at low speeds, trust me mate... there are only benefits to fitting BPR6EIX plugs.
6. Finally I ran these plugs for many more thousands of miles on LPG, which burns a little hotter and is much harder to strike, once again they performed absolutely perfectly. If they survive and work well on LPG you aren't even coming close to stretching them on petrol.
7. These are both the facts from NGK themselves and the results of my thousands of real world testing miles in a TVR Chimaera. Trust me, BPR6EIX plugs are 100% safe in your TVR and will only give you benefits, try them and report back here on how you find them.
1. So do you believe the opinion of one TVR owner with an entirely different fuel system to anyone else or do you believe the biggest and by far the best spark plug manufacturer in the world?2. NGK themselves recommend the BPR6EIX as a direct upgrade to the BPR6ES and the BPR6ES is the plug they've recommended for the Rover V8 engine for over 25 years!
3. Every car NGK ever said should run on a set of BPR6ES can run BPR6EIX, which lets face it is literally thousands of vehicles that are expected to be driven in lots of different ways, using a vast array of engine configurations, capacities and numbers of cylinders.
4. So that means anything and everything fitted with one of, (if not the) most common spark plugs in the world (the BPR6ES) can now happily run the BPR6EIX with absolutely no risk whatsoever..... period!
5. If you're still not convinced the BPR6EIX plugs will be absolutely fine in your TVR consider that I ran them of petrol only for literally thousands of miles as have others like QBee, all we've found is the car idles smoother and is easier to manoeuvre at low speeds, trust me mate... there are only benefits to fitting BPR6EIX plugs.
6. Finally I ran these plugs for many more thousands of miles on LPG, which burns a little hotter and is much harder to strike, once again they performed absolutely perfectly. If they survive and work well on LPG you aren't even coming close to stretching them on petrol.
7. These are both the facts from NGK themselves and the results of my thousands of real world testing miles in a TVR Chimaera. Trust me, BPR6EIX plugs are 100% safe in your TVR and will only give you benefits, try them and report back here on how you find them.
Edited by ChimpOnGas on Thursday 8th December 09:20
2. NGK do recommend the BPR6ES for a huge range of vehicles as their catalogue shows. However, nowhere in their catalogue under TVR Chimaera or Griffith does it recommend BPR6ES for TVR. You can check for yourself on page 75 in the link:
http://ngkntk.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2016/05/Spa...
3. This is irrelevant as BPR6ES is not listed for your car. It is listed for mud plugger Land Rovers which will not be subjected to the same punishing regime.
4. Again irrelevant.
5. Either accept the rantings of one person with a few thousand miles under exceptional conditions or accept that NGK test all their plugs under all conditions. NGK would never put their name to the B7ECS if you believed the hype and nonsense on here. But, even today, NGK ONLY list the B7ECS and for the reasons I stated earlier in the thread.
6. This shows how unreliable the opinion posted here is and don't forget, it is only one person's opinion, nothing more with no actual proof of long term testing. As for the comment about not coming close on petrol, this only underlines the unreliability of one person's opinion. No two engines are the same - different timing, different octane rated petrol, worn cams, worn distributors etc etc. Many have changed their ECUs, some run coil packs so how does one person's testing of an LPG equipped car 'prove' (not my word) a spark plug is suitable for your car?
7. "Trust me"
"These are the facts from NGK themselves" is of course absolute nonsense. At risk of boring you to death by repeating myself (something another poster does not seem to care about) I actually spent 26 minutes discussing the various ECUs, igniton systems and driving styles with a technical expert at NGK - not the sales girl in the front office - who has demonstrated with absolute conviction, clarity and expertise (something which is seriously lacking elsewhere here) his understanding of the engine and the product.NGK only recommended the BR7EIX due to its design i.e. the lack of the J shaped shroud which if overheated or subjected to combustion shock could break and cause pre-ignition. The dangers of pre-ignition can be catastrophic. So, based on one person's opinion would you potentially risk your engine because he is right and the world's biggest manufacturer and TVR are wrong along with Powers and all the other dealers who fit B7ECS? If you fit the BPR6EIX and your engine is damaged, I wish you all luck with the warranty you will get from the advisor on this forum.
NGK have recommended a perfectly suitable alternative - BR7EIX - which will give those looking for an iridium plug with all the benefits that will provide (40,000 mile service interval) plus the heat range and cooling properties are the same. However, the biggest single safety factor is the shroud which is flatter to prevent overheating at the tip as in the design of the original plug, the B7ECS.
A battle of the titian posters. How exciting 
I have a standard 400 Chimaera and swapped my plugs from heat rating 7 to 6 (BPR6EIX)
I found in general the car ran smoother and started, idled and ran better when cold.
In my case when removing the 7s they were black and sooty and the 6 range plug is now nice and clean.
The problem with TVR is that their engines were not supplied to the spec on the box and it seems to vary from car to car. For the 400 it was supposed to put out 240hp and the 400hc 275hp. The majority of 400s (and other engine sizes) came out of the factory 15% shy of these quoted figures. i.e without their stage 3 heads running at 10.5:1 compression ratio for which you would likely need a cooler 7 plug hence most standard unmodified Chimaera 400s are closer to the standard rover V8 than the TVR quoted marketing figures.
My take on all this debate is if you know you have a high performance RV8 engine or if you don't know what spec engine you have and don't know about engines and how to remove and read a spark plug use 7s.
If you have a more or less standard engine or use your Chimaera as a daily driver and want to improve idle and starting performance try the 6s. It worked for me.
I have a standard 400 Chimaera and swapped my plugs from heat rating 7 to 6 (BPR6EIX)
I found in general the car ran smoother and started, idled and ran better when cold.
In my case when removing the 7s they were black and sooty and the 6 range plug is now nice and clean.
The problem with TVR is that their engines were not supplied to the spec on the box and it seems to vary from car to car. For the 400 it was supposed to put out 240hp and the 400hc 275hp. The majority of 400s (and other engine sizes) came out of the factory 15% shy of these quoted figures. i.e without their stage 3 heads running at 10.5:1 compression ratio for which you would likely need a cooler 7 plug hence most standard unmodified Chimaera 400s are closer to the standard rover V8 than the TVR quoted marketing figures.
My take on all this debate is if you know you have a high performance RV8 engine or if you don't know what spec engine you have and don't know about engines and how to remove and read a spark plug use 7s.
If you have a more or less standard engine or use your Chimaera as a daily driver and want to improve idle and starting performance try the 6s. It worked for me.
Edited by ITVRI on Thursday 8th December 23:44
NGK describe the Iridium tipped plugs as for High performance engines ?
The use of exotic metals seems to be more about better spark on high performance vehicles that use more powerful ignition systems so need the protection on the tip!
Not necessary on our cars really.
It seems the heat difference could be more of an issue!
As I have spent tthousands on a re built engine and management system and I want to get it all checked out anyway and having read all the excellent posts on here ive realised I know f
k all,,,,,, or did
The change from 7 to 6 alone raises many questions in my mind about extra heat soak into the heads etc,
As this thread has raised some important points I've decided to book my car into a Powers, I'll take my iridium tipped plugs with me, if Jay and or Dom can justify the use of them or any other plug that's got a different heat rating then I will go with their advice.
The iridium tip seems less of an issue than the heat rating and Dom says if it's running properly it shouldn't be fouling the 7's,
fk me a just wanted to change the plugs, now I'm imagining scored bores,,, FFS
I'm just hoping my fouled plugs are just to much use of the car when not upto full temperature.
The use of exotic metals seems to be more about better spark on high performance vehicles that use more powerful ignition systems so need the protection on the tip!
Not necessary on our cars really.
It seems the heat difference could be more of an issue!
As I have spent tthousands on a re built engine and management system and I want to get it all checked out anyway and having read all the excellent posts on here ive realised I know f
k all,,,,,, or did The change from 7 to 6 alone raises many questions in my mind about extra heat soak into the heads etc,
As this thread has raised some important points I've decided to book my car into a Powers, I'll take my iridium tipped plugs with me, if Jay and or Dom can justify the use of them or any other plug that's got a different heat rating then I will go with their advice.
The iridium tip seems less of an issue than the heat rating and Dom says if it's running properly it shouldn't be fouling the 7's,
f
k me a just wanted to change the plugs, now I'm imagining scored bores,,, FFS I'm just hoping my fouled plugs are just to much use of the car when not upto full temperature.
Two things already posted here are that a 30,000 mile plug replacement schedule would probably mean the plugs would be in my Griff for several years and might not come out too easily, and also that the tough-as-old-boots OE spec plugs may well have been chosen as protection against pinking that could damage more fragile plugs.
NGK tech advice also seems to suggest the projected iridium plugs can fall to bits if given enough vibration. Maybe with a modern management system guaranteed to get the ignition bob on they'd be fine, but I still wouldn't risk it personally having read the above.
I've got BPR7ES as recommended by Joolz in my 4.0 HC emerald'd engine, it also had these plugs on the Lucas system - they were a bit black when running the Lucas but I haven't checked them since the emerald went on.
All interesting stuff
NGK tech advice also seems to suggest the projected iridium plugs can fall to bits if given enough vibration. Maybe with a modern management system guaranteed to get the ignition bob on they'd be fine, but I still wouldn't risk it personally having read the above.
I've got BPR7ES as recommended by Joolz in my 4.0 HC emerald'd engine, it also had these plugs on the Lucas system - they were a bit black when running the Lucas but I haven't checked them since the emerald went on.
All interesting stuff
andy43 said:
Two things already posted here are that a 30,000 mile plug replacement schedule would probably mean the plugs would be in my Griff for several years and might not come out too easily, and also that the tough-as-old-boots OE spec plugs may well have been chosen as protection against pinking that could damage more fragile plugs.
NGK tech advice also seems to suggest the projected iridium plugs can fall to bits if given enough vibration. Maybe with a modern management system guaranteed to get the ignition bob on they'd be fine, but I still wouldn't risk it personally having read the above.
I've got BPR7ES as recommended by Joolz in my 4.0 HC emerald'd engine, it also had these plugs on the Lucas system - they were a bit black when running the Lucas but I haven't checked them since the emerald went on.
All interesting stuff
If you could take the time to say remove No 2 plug Andy43 and check its colour that would be marvellous sir. If you can't be bothered no worries, as I'm now not going to be replacing the plugs this week I'll try and remove a few of mine over the weekend and check the colour. NGK tech advice also seems to suggest the projected iridium plugs can fall to bits if given enough vibration. Maybe with a modern management system guaranteed to get the ignition bob on they'd be fine, but I still wouldn't risk it personally having read the above.
I've got BPR7ES as recommended by Joolz in my 4.0 HC emerald'd engine, it also had these plugs on the Lucas system - they were a bit black when running the Lucas but I haven't checked them since the emerald went on.
All interesting stuff
Having evidence from two owners with aftermarket Ecu might be interesting for others let alone ourselves
There are two factors that colour the plug - the tip temperature and the mixture, so an over rich mixture mixture will make it look like the plugs are running too cool due to the excess carbon build up. This was a major problem in the days of carbs as you could not tell if the mixture was wrong, or the plug too cold. Luckily with decent lambda control we should now have a stable mixture, although the 14CUX does go open loop above 3400 rpm, so mixture becomes more of an unknown. When checking plugs you simply don't want a completely white central insulator - this would show the plug was running so hot that any deposits are being completely burned off, so the plug needs some colouring, but not to a point it becomes black and conductive. The colour does vary anyway with mixture shifts and combustion chamber temp through out the rev range, and to get a really good idea of the plug temp you should take a clean plug, then run the engine under constant load for a short period, before killing it on the ignition at the elevated rpm, so it does not idle then check the tip colour. Personally I doubt you get into any bother running the 5ltr engine on a BP6ES or equivalent on the UK roads as you simply cant hold the engine under significant load or for any period without losing your licence or ending up in a hedge. It would be different for track use or high speed cruising however, and Id suspect TVR took the safe option of a 7 grade shrouded plug, as a worse case fouled plug wont do any engine damage.
Edited by blitzracing on Friday 9th December 10:08
blitzracing said:
There are two factors that colour the plug - the tip temperature and the mixture, so an over rich mixture mixture will make it look like the plugs are running too cool due to the excess carbon build up. This was a major problem in the days of carbs as you could not tell if the mixture was wrong, or the plug too cold. Luckily with decent lambda control we should now have a stable mixture, although the 14CUX does go open loop above 3400 rpm, so mixture becomes more of an unknown. When checking plugs you simply don't want a completely white central insulator - this would show the plug was running so hot that any deposits are being completely burned off, so the plug needs some colouring, but not to a point it becomes black and conductive. The colour does vary anyway with mixture shifts and combustion chamber temp through out the rev range, and to get a really good idea of the plug temp you should take a clean plug, then run the engine under constant load for a short period, before killing it on the ignition at the elevated rpm, so it does not idle then check the tip colour. Personally I doubt you get into any bother running the 5ltr engine on a BP6ES or equivalent on the UK roads as you simply cant hold the engine under significant load or for any period without losing your licence or ending up in a hedge. It would be different for track use or high speed cruising however, and Id suspect TVR took the safe option of a 7 grade shrouded plug, as a worse case fouled plug wont do any engine damage.
Exactly. Edited by blitzracing on Friday 9th December 10:08
Safe option.
With recent learnings washing about my head if I was to run 6 grade plugs I'd change them for a trackday.
If I tend to foul plugs because I'm running about in British traffic then I still feel a 6 might be a better grade for those daily conditions.
^^^^ this is a good summary really. I imagine TVR expected their customers to race around in their V8 engined cars as opposed to Disco and Rangie owners. Therefore, the 7 was likely chosen as it had a protected shroud and a cooler range to cope with engines being driven at higher revs for a sustained period.
My concern was for those who have modified their engines in some small or large way with different ECUs, coil packs, different timing etc plus those who have changed their cams, raised their compression ratio and so on.
As the engine has now been modified and in most cases the power has been increased, then you will raise combustion temperatures, hence asking NGK Technical for advice.
My car is different like many more who are fitting superchargers and turbos. The NGK recommendation was to fit BR7EIX as an upgrade from the B7ECS if you so wanted but if the boost was raised then to choose BR8EIX. Also, if the boost was very high, say 18psi, then even a BR9EIX if the car was being tracked. A 6 was out of the question.
My concern was for those who have modified their engines in some small or large way with different ECUs, coil packs, different timing etc plus those who have changed their cams, raised their compression ratio and so on.
As the engine has now been modified and in most cases the power has been increased, then you will raise combustion temperatures, hence asking NGK Technical for advice.
My car is different like many more who are fitting superchargers and turbos. The NGK recommendation was to fit BR7EIX as an upgrade from the B7ECS if you so wanted but if the boost was raised then to choose BR8EIX. Also, if the boost was very high, say 18psi, then even a BR9EIX if the car was being tracked. A 6 was out of the question.
carsy said:
I have always used BPR6ES to good effect as i found the 7`s would foul up and never be a good colour on removal.
carsy said:
I`d stick some 6`s in it Peter. Thats what i have although mine is only a baby 4.3 From what i can gather their aint many normally aspirated Rv8`s that need anything cooler than 6.
ITVRI said:
A battle of the titian posters. How exciting
I have a standard 400 Chimaera and swapped my plugs from heat rating 7 to 6 (BPR6EIX), I found in general the car ran smoother and started, idled and ran better when cold. In my case when removing the 7s they were black and sooty and the 6 range plug is now nice and clean.
I have a standard 400 Chimaera and swapped my plugs from heat rating 7 to 6 (BPR6EIX), I found in general the car ran smoother and started, idled and ran better when cold. In my case when removing the 7s they were black and sooty and the 6 range plug is now nice and clean.
TVRleigh_BBWR said:
I've been running BPR6ES in my 4.0 Tasmin Racer with an Emerald ECU and LR coil-packs for the past 3 years without a problem. The engine runs at about 90oC - 105oC. Plus I used the same plugs 2 seasons. so about 600 miles of full on abuse.
FlipFlopGriff said:
Had BPR6ES on the Griff 430BV for a while now and they are a good creamy brown colour as opposed to the standard 7's which were always black.
SILICONEKID345HP said:
Just fitted BPR6ES in mine ,better idle and it seems more responsive . I took Jools advice.
SILICONEKID345HP said:
Ive not used those over priced race plugs for years ,they foul up quickly.Iuse what v8 Developments recommend NGK BPR6
Dr Mike Oxgreen said:
I've also been running NGK BPR6EIX here, for the last four or five months, probably a couple of thousand miles. The car is certainly running very nicely.
Dr Mike Oxgreen said:
I now run BPR6EIX plugs with standard Lucas HT leads with heat socks on the ends and no plug extenders, and my engine is running better than it ever has before.
QBee said:
I've been running NGK BPR6EIS, the Iridium version of Daz's, for the last 15,000 miles in my V8D 5 litre, CR 10.0. No issues whatever, no comments from Mat on service other than "no need to replace these". They felt so much better right from the start.
QBee said:
NGK make the best plugs. My car runs a lot better on ngk bpr6eix. Hotter plug, less prone to fouling, and being iridium they last for 60,000 miles, not 6,000, so while they are more expensive, you only buy them once and only pay the shipping costs once.
AV8 said:
I have been using the BPR6ES and they are fine, and only about 20 quid a set.
Discopotatoes said:
I've got a set of bpr6es in the range rover running on LPG had them in for about 4 years and at least 40000 miles, I pulled a couple last week to find them in excellent condition, the car doesn't miss a beat
Smokey Boyer said:
I personally use NGK BPR6ES. About £20 for a full set and therefore cheap enough to be replaced frequently. They were recommended by Shaun at MS2Tuning. I am not even going to pretend I understand the differences, but he does know what he is talking about when it comes to the V8 engines.
scushing said:
I recently changed to BP6ES (no R as my leads are the standard set and resistive) in my bog standard 400. Again, it may be just the fact they're new, but she runs noticeably smoother in the lower rev range and things are particularly improved in that tricky 1200-2000 rpm band. They've not been in for long and I'll keep an eye on their condition as I do more miles, but so far 
WOO5IE said:
I have just recently changed my XK 150 plugs which are NGK Iridium, scheduled for change at 100k or 10 years these cost me about £55 from a place in the states.£90 over here on EBay I have also changed my Chim plugs to BPR6ES for ignition issues I.e got rid of the plug extenders and I got a box of 10 for £10 off EBay. A no brainier.
So quite a few using the BPR6EIX and many many using BPR6ES, all these people using and recommending 6's can't be wrong surely?I also bet if you asked the Wedge forum what plugs they use in their V8 Wedges you'll find the vast majority fit a 6, so I took a quick look, here a couple of comments from V8 Wedge owners...
TOPTON said:
So which plugs to use on a 350SE 3.9 engine?. Wedge pages suggest BPR6ES and thats what I fitted.
chj said:
Personally found the BP6ES protruding type to give a cleaner burn than B7ECS, and less likely to foul up - particularly on the 420seac. Chris
So many guys using 6's, many professionals who tune maintain and build Rover V8s recommending 6's, and one guy making comically ignorant comments like this...N7GTX said:
NGK would never agree to fitting a plug rated at 6 unless the driver was only tootling around and was constantly in traffic at slow speed.
I think we'll end all this here and let people make their own mind up.Edited by ChimpOnGas on Friday 9th December 11:13
Edited by ChimpOnGas on Friday 9th December 15:02
Unfortunately many people on forums with zero mechanical or practical training or experience can, by brainwashing and repetitive posting "convince" others of their views. Those people then take up the suggestions and follow this rigid, unbending 'advice' as they now believe the proposer must be right.
Listing some quotes from others whom you have 'convinced' does not alter anything when it comes to the facts. Curiously you have omitted Pupp's disagreement with you earlier this year when he defended the use of the B7ECS.
You have become so deluded with your own opinion to the exclusion of all others that you now believe your own hype. As a former RAF engine technician (not all aircraft have jets in them) with a full and thorough grounding and training in petrol and jet engines plus diploma courses in motor vehicle repair, I understand this subject. I have also been repairing and maintaining cars and vans for the last 45 years. As a consequence of which, selecting the correct spark plug is of paramount importance. When ordering parts from factors or dealers I have always checked the NGK catalogue to ensure compatibility.
I have run my own business for 15 years specialising in vehicle diagnostics using dealer levels tools and Bosch programs. I have contact with Bosch technical for the latest info and advice. What I do not do is spend hours and hours typing reams and reams of the same old regurgitated nonsense. Many readers will have dealt with Mark Adams or fitted his chip as evidenced on this thread alone. I have never had any dealings with the man but it does seem more than coincidental that you, the untrained 'expert' on everything, has made some very disparaging remarks about him which could amount to libel in this very thread. He is clearly an expert as supported by others.
In the past you have said that the alternator belt tensioner is no good apparently so you have decided that your 'upgrade' is far superior. This despite no proof of the correct mechanical tension which will of course lead to premature failure of either the belt, the alternator, the power steering pump or the water pump. Therefore, all the research and work by Land Rover and others is rubbished. Curiously, my standard tensioner performs rather well. In many of your posts you continue to rubbish aspects of TVR design and build quality. I do wonder why you ever bought one.
I am quite sure you mean well in your quest to 'improve' your TVR but unfortunately you are not open to others opinion or facts, instead repeating ad finitum your untested theories. I have never said or suggested any reader must heed my advice. I have thrown my opinion into the ring backed up by real experts in their field. I am quite certain the forum members can make up their own minds and everyone may contact NGK should they feel they need more advice. The number is in a previous post.
Listing some quotes from others whom you have 'convinced' does not alter anything when it comes to the facts. Curiously you have omitted Pupp's disagreement with you earlier this year when he defended the use of the B7ECS.
You have become so deluded with your own opinion to the exclusion of all others that you now believe your own hype. As a former RAF engine technician (not all aircraft have jets in them) with a full and thorough grounding and training in petrol and jet engines plus diploma courses in motor vehicle repair, I understand this subject. I have also been repairing and maintaining cars and vans for the last 45 years. As a consequence of which, selecting the correct spark plug is of paramount importance. When ordering parts from factors or dealers I have always checked the NGK catalogue to ensure compatibility.
I have run my own business for 15 years specialising in vehicle diagnostics using dealer levels tools and Bosch programs. I have contact with Bosch technical for the latest info and advice. What I do not do is spend hours and hours typing reams and reams of the same old regurgitated nonsense. Many readers will have dealt with Mark Adams or fitted his chip as evidenced on this thread alone. I have never had any dealings with the man but it does seem more than coincidental that you, the untrained 'expert' on everything, has made some very disparaging remarks about him which could amount to libel in this very thread. He is clearly an expert as supported by others.
In the past you have said that the alternator belt tensioner is no good apparently so you have decided that your 'upgrade' is far superior. This despite no proof of the correct mechanical tension which will of course lead to premature failure of either the belt, the alternator, the power steering pump or the water pump. Therefore, all the research and work by Land Rover and others is rubbished. Curiously, my standard tensioner performs rather well. In many of your posts you continue to rubbish aspects of TVR design and build quality. I do wonder why you ever bought one.
I am quite sure you mean well in your quest to 'improve' your TVR but unfortunately you are not open to others opinion or facts, instead repeating ad finitum your untested theories. I have never said or suggested any reader must heed my advice. I have thrown my opinion into the ring backed up by real experts in their field. I am quite certain the forum members can make up their own minds and everyone may contact NGK should they feel they need more advice. The number is in a previous post.
You've been quite rude about a lot of people there Iain, I doubt it'll improve your popularity by making comments like this...
That aside and even before you resorted to offending everyone on my big list of fellow TVR enthusiasts I think you will have already lost any credibility you may not have had with the group when you said this...
All this in the face of so many cases on PH where Chim, Griff and V8 Wedge owners have witnessed a multitude indisputable benefits after switching their sooty fouling B7ECS plugs to the one hotter extended electrode BPR6ES, all this just to try and brainwash people a 7 is better than the most widely used plug known to man.. the BPR6ES, and finally all this to argue against the very plug NGK themselves have been recommending for the Rover V8 engine for over 25 years.
Faced with such overwhelming logic and such a huge body of evidence both anecdotal and professional you're still beetling on, I think its fair to say dilutional is the only word left.
N7GTX said:
Unfortunately many people on forums with zero mechanical or practical training or experience can, by brainwashing and repetitive posting "convince" others of their views. Those people then take up the suggestions and follow this rigid, unbending 'advice' as they now believe the proposer must be right.
Especially when a lot of these guys are only following the advice of their professional engine builder and or tuner.That aside and even before you resorted to offending everyone on my big list of fellow TVR enthusiasts I think you will have already lost any credibility you may not have had with the group when you said this...
N7GTX said:
NGK would never agree to fitting a plug rated at 6 unless the driver was only tootling around and was constantly in traffic at slow speed.
Which is of course as anyone with any automotive experience (professional or amateur) would know is the biggest load of old rubbish ever.All this in the face of so many cases on PH where Chim, Griff and V8 Wedge owners have witnessed a multitude indisputable benefits after switching their sooty fouling B7ECS plugs to the one hotter extended electrode BPR6ES, all this just to try and brainwash people a 7 is better than the most widely used plug known to man.. the BPR6ES, and finally all this to argue against the very plug NGK themselves have been recommending for the Rover V8 engine for over 25 years.
Faced with such overwhelming logic and such a huge body of evidence both anecdotal and professional you're still beetling on, I think its fair to say dilutional is the only word left.
I think the word you're looking for is 'delusional', which clearly is neither fair nor called for.
Also, the quote you have very selectively attributed to me in support of your stance was my response to a very specific request and, as has been pointed out previously, you know full well I disagree with your one size fits all approach for reasons that have been argued ad nauseam now.
Also, the quote you have very selectively attributed to me in support of your stance was my response to a very specific request and, as has been pointed out previously, you know full well I disagree with your one size fits all approach for reasons that have been argued ad nauseam now.
Let's keep some perspective here!
The chances of a plug overheating during road use to the extent that it causes pre-ignition are approximately equal to the square-root of fk-all. Particularly since we're only talking about one grade difference.
Admittedly, when I first responded on this thread I perhaps should have checked whether WokingWedger normally uses his car on the road, or whether he uses it on track. But the fact that he mentions sooty plugs is all the evidence you need. If you've got sooty plugs then your engine is trying to tell you something.
For road use, the evidence of fouled plugs leads me to be confident that 6 is the right grade, not 7. My 7s were black as can be when I got rid of them.
TVR specified 7 probably because they anticipated that some of these engines would be modified (e.g. forced induction) and would then lead a hard life on the track or drag strip. I can understand their decision - it's better for the majority of owners to suffer the mild symptoms from plug fouling than for a tiny number of owners to suffer catastrophic failures on the drag strip, because it's the latter that people will hear about and form their opinions from. So I can totally understand TVR specifying the over-cautious grade 7.
That said, it's interesting that there are owners here (e.g. QBee) who do run 6 plugs and do regularly track their cars without problems. That shows just how risk-averse TVR's choice was.
Owners should indeed consider modifying the official advice based on their own usage patterns, and certainly if their black plugs are trying to speak to them.
The chances of a plug overheating during road use to the extent that it causes pre-ignition are approximately equal to the square-root of f
k-all. Particularly since we're only talking about one grade difference.Admittedly, when I first responded on this thread I perhaps should have checked whether WokingWedger normally uses his car on the road, or whether he uses it on track. But the fact that he mentions sooty plugs is all the evidence you need. If you've got sooty plugs then your engine is trying to tell you something.
For road use, the evidence of fouled plugs leads me to be confident that 6 is the right grade, not 7. My 7s were black as can be when I got rid of them.
TVR specified 7 probably because they anticipated that some of these engines would be modified (e.g. forced induction) and would then lead a hard life on the track or drag strip. I can understand their decision - it's better for the majority of owners to suffer the mild symptoms from plug fouling than for a tiny number of owners to suffer catastrophic failures on the drag strip, because it's the latter that people will hear about and form their opinions from. So I can totally understand TVR specifying the over-cautious grade 7.
That said, it's interesting that there are owners here (e.g. QBee) who do run 6 plugs and do regularly track their cars without problems. That shows just how risk-averse TVR's choice was.
Owners should indeed consider modifying the official advice based on their own usage patterns, and certainly if their black plugs are trying to speak to them.
Gassing Station | Chimaera | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff