New Emerald to be.
Discussion
Hi folks, I've been in contact with Joolz at kit and classics with intention of having a new Emerald ecu fitted, along with one of his blended bases in the new year.
I've also ordered a decat CF y piece and plan to remove the precats at the same time. My question is this; Joolz has mention a wide band senor as an option and one that quite a few tvr owners are using - what does everybody think? Run it without to begin with, or simply get if fitted and mapped at the same time as the ecu? Is there a strong benefit to be had?
Adrian
I've also ordered a decat CF y piece and plan to remove the precats at the same time. My question is this; Joolz has mention a wide band senor as an option and one that quite a few tvr owners are using - what does everybody think? Run it without to begin with, or simply get if fitted and mapped at the same time as the ecu? Is there a strong benefit to be had?
Adrian
Do it at the same time - one mapping session instead of two. If Jools recommends it, then its a good idea.
If you want to save cash to pay for it, then ditch the blended base.
I don't believe Jools has convinced anyone that they make one bhp of difference to the car's performance, and as it is under the plenum its not as if you can even see and admire it.
If you want to save cash to pay for it, then ditch the blended base.
I don't believe Jools has convinced anyone that they make one bhp of difference to the car's performance, and as it is under the plenum its not as if you can even see and admire it.
as qbee said ditch the base waste of time fit the wide beam lambda with the 2j2 controller you can then have 3 maps open loop closed loop and mot map ideal.just as an aside emerald now do a plug and play loom which makes life a lot easier i personally prefer making a new loom gets rid of all the old wires but thought i would mention it.
john
john
griffdude said:
Very good choice!
The blended base does make a difference having done a before & after test on my Griffith when matched to a ported inlet manifold. Especially if you have loose ram pipes rolling around in the plenum (which is surprisingly common).....
I would positively be interested in knowing how much difference (assuming my ram pipes are where they should be), as I have been discussing this very subject recently with my TVR guy and do have a ported inlet manifold I can use. We can continue the discussion off forum if you like, just email me please. In the mean time I am happy to stand corrected.The blended base does make a difference having done a before & after test on my Griffith when matched to a ported inlet manifold. Especially if you have loose ram pipes rolling around in the plenum (which is surprisingly common).....
ETA just read John's comment! Perhaps I was more correct than I thought?
My heads and inlet are all as they came.
Joolz's point is that it allows a lot more flow at high revs and so power.
I know everyone has their own views, but since I'm going to put my faith in Joolz, I think I might as well follow his recommedation on the base...
The wide band isn't too much extra, so I'd be happy to go with it if it's going to improve things.
I assume that it'll mostly smooth out the acceleration, is that right??
Joolz's point is that it allows a lot more flow at high revs and so power.
I know everyone has their own views, but since I'm going to put my faith in Joolz, I think I might as well follow his recommedation on the base...
The wide band isn't too much extra, so I'd be happy to go with it if it's going to improve things.
I assume that it'll mostly smooth out the acceleration, is that right??
My heads and inlet are all as they came.
Joolz's point is that it allows a lot more flow at high revs and so power.
I know everyone has their own views, but since I'm going to put my faith in Joolz, I think I might as well follow his recommedation on the base...
The wide band isn't too much extra, so I'd be happy to go with it if it's going to improve things.
I assume that it'll mostly smooth out the acceleration, is that right??
Joolz's point is that it allows a lot more flow at high revs and so power.
I know everyone has their own views, but since I'm going to put my faith in Joolz, I think I might as well follow his recommedation on the base...
The wide band isn't too much extra, so I'd be happy to go with it if it's going to improve things.
I assume that it'll mostly smooth out the acceleration, is that right??
If you dont have the wide band lambda your engine will run exactly the same as when he mapped it even in different conditions .
The wide band lambda makes corrections and also learns to make smaller and smaller adjustments untill perfection .
He also removed my stepper and fitted one he recommended. .
The wide band lambda makes corrections and also learns to make smaller and smaller adjustments untill perfection .
He also removed my stepper and fitted one he recommended. .
Edited by SILICONEKID345HP on Friday 9th December 18:39
the emerald can do all sorts of things run the fans it can now do blip down change fore sequential boxes run adjustable electric power steering so it adjusts as OEM stuff does but the lambda does as daz points out continually moniter all the mixtures ecu takes this into account with all the other sensors and produces the ultimate mixture for the senario as for the stepper it will control on the original four wire job or an aftermarket version you can also do away with it completely and ramp up the ignition to control tickover even when cold.
john
john
Joolz has fitted an emerald and wideband to mine (4 litre HC Griff) and I'm chuffed to bits with it.
When warmed up it was always pretty good, but just plain rubbish when cold, and after the diff seemingly trying to make a real break for freedom a few times when the car shunted unexpectedly and caught me in the wrong gear, and a couple of complete cutouts while on the move I decided to stop funding Lucas's retirement and went 21st century. Best thing I've done to the car, and I don't say that lightly.
The wideband is something I decided to ask Joolz to add at the last minute, mainly from searching and reading on here.
It's an AEM with a Bosch sensor, about £150-worth - Joolz said he uses one of these anyway when mapping/setting cars up. Sensor went into a boss I asked Clive to add when he made my Y piece. Gauge I mounted to the dash myself down above my left knee out of the way on a five quid ebay bracket.
I had fitted act carbon trumpets, sc power plenum spacer and insulator previously with no night-and-day difference, so if the budget is tight I'd go for the wideband over the blended base personally.
Joolz fitted the emerald and the wideband, capped the old lambdas in the manifolds, Bosch 4 wire idle valve instead of stepper (stepper now capped - or you can elect to keep that 'orrible old piece of Land Rover pre-history if you really want to!), 3 maps (normal + pops/silly noises + have-a-stab-at-an-MOT-pass), and Accel ceramic plug leads (that I supplied). Plus other stuff I have probably missed out, including new wiring! Took 2 weeks - fitting one week, mapping and 5 cold starts the next. I now have an entire Lucas system to flog to offset the cost. Fans are now ecu-controlled.
I had already decatted completely but have kept my catted Y piece back for MOTs, I just need to get a boss welded into it to take the AEM sensor.
Now the Y has been on and off and everything loosened up a bit, I can swap Ys over in an hour or so I reckon, although Joolz did de-bodge my exhaust paste application somewhat while the car was with him. He was very diplomatic
Car runs fantastic. Where this really shines isn't when flat out, it's when driving normally - it's smoother by far, easier to change gear in traffic, no stumbling, no crappy snatchy stuff down hills on closed throttle, it just works like a more modern car. I drove back from Joolz's, came down a slowish hill at 40-50mph, got to the bottom of the hill and reached for the gearlever to move it from neutral back into gear - but it was already in gear, in 4th. Before, I would have felt it snatching, stumbling, not bad but noticeable - now it was as smooth as coasting down.
I think perhaps that when warmed up my car was more than ok compared to some in terms of shunting and low speed manners (it damn well should have been after afm, coil, rotor, leads, amp, stepper etc etc) but it's absolutely night and day comparing the Lucas to the Emerald. Would mapping the Lucas have improved it? Yes, but I'd be stuck with the same crispy loom, tricky fault finding and the same fragile/expensive parts list.
I'm only an hour from Chesterfield over some very nice hills, but for what it's worth it's way better to just get the lot done at once as having the wideband in there will assist in mapping and running anyway. I'm rambling now - do it - you won't regret it!
When warmed up it was always pretty good, but just plain rubbish when cold, and after the diff seemingly trying to make a real break for freedom a few times when the car shunted unexpectedly and caught me in the wrong gear, and a couple of complete cutouts while on the move I decided to stop funding Lucas's retirement and went 21st century. Best thing I've done to the car, and I don't say that lightly.
The wideband is something I decided to ask Joolz to add at the last minute, mainly from searching and reading on here.
It's an AEM with a Bosch sensor, about £150-worth - Joolz said he uses one of these anyway when mapping/setting cars up. Sensor went into a boss I asked Clive to add when he made my Y piece. Gauge I mounted to the dash myself down above my left knee out of the way on a five quid ebay bracket.
I had fitted act carbon trumpets, sc power plenum spacer and insulator previously with no night-and-day difference, so if the budget is tight I'd go for the wideband over the blended base personally.
Joolz fitted the emerald and the wideband, capped the old lambdas in the manifolds, Bosch 4 wire idle valve instead of stepper (stepper now capped - or you can elect to keep that 'orrible old piece of Land Rover pre-history if you really want to!), 3 maps (normal + pops/silly noises + have-a-stab-at-an-MOT-pass), and Accel ceramic plug leads (that I supplied). Plus other stuff I have probably missed out, including new wiring! Took 2 weeks - fitting one week, mapping and 5 cold starts the next. I now have an entire Lucas system to flog to offset the cost. Fans are now ecu-controlled.
I had already decatted completely but have kept my catted Y piece back for MOTs, I just need to get a boss welded into it to take the AEM sensor.
Now the Y has been on and off and everything loosened up a bit, I can swap Ys over in an hour or so I reckon, although Joolz did de-bodge my exhaust paste application somewhat while the car was with him. He was very diplomatic
Car runs fantastic. Where this really shines isn't when flat out, it's when driving normally - it's smoother by far, easier to change gear in traffic, no stumbling, no crappy snatchy stuff down hills on closed throttle, it just works like a more modern car. I drove back from Joolz's, came down a slowish hill at 40-50mph, got to the bottom of the hill and reached for the gearlever to move it from neutral back into gear - but it was already in gear, in 4th. Before, I would have felt it snatching, stumbling, not bad but noticeable - now it was as smooth as coasting down.
I think perhaps that when warmed up my car was more than ok compared to some in terms of shunting and low speed manners (it damn well should have been after afm, coil, rotor, leads, amp, stepper etc etc) but it's absolutely night and day comparing the Lucas to the Emerald. Would mapping the Lucas have improved it? Yes, but I'd be stuck with the same crispy loom, tricky fault finding and the same fragile/expensive parts list.
I'm only an hour from Chesterfield over some very nice hills, but for what it's worth it's way better to just get the lot done at once as having the wideband in there will assist in mapping and running anyway. I'm rambling now - do it - you won't regret it!
I fitted an Emerald a few years ago and also made a new loom. The Emerald is super easy to use even for a computer numpty like myself.
I`ve also just fitted an AEM wideband and connected it up to the ecu as per what Jools would do to yours. Not stricktly needed if he is going to map it as it should come away from him pretty good. It will let you keep an eye on AFR`s but more importantly any other tuning work you do or alterations, you can put the ecu into adaptive mapping mode and it will then self map itself. Unless you are a tinkerer i wouldnt bother with a wideband as it becomes a bit obsessive constantly checking AFR`s. Just let him map it and then drive it. If however you like tinkering and messing get it fitted.
As stated above you dont really need a stepper motor with the Emerald as it can be mapped to cope with a cold start allbeit tick over may be a bit low for the first few minutes. I`d rather have this then a troublesome stepper. Or fit a modern 2 wire bosch idle valve which i have now done. If you cut the stepper air feed pipe the bosch idle valve fits perfectly into it like it was made to fit. Having said all this the Emerald doesnt support or change idle speed ( via the idle valve ) once the engine is up to temp. It relies on upping the ignition advance, ( spark scatter ) to do this if revs drop low which means for this to be effective you have to run a slightly retarded ignition advance at tickover. Having said that it wont be any lower than a stock dizzy as the engine likes a lot more advance than the dizzy can give at idle anyway. So the idle valve can only be mapped against engine temp during warm up, shame really as i would have liked it to control the idle ( when up to temp ) via the valve rather than using spark scatter. No biggy though as it does it very well.
Re Jools`s blended base i also have one of those as well. Is there a benefit; i dont know. Jools states in testing a 10bhp gain at the top end with no loss of low down torque. I chose it as i wanted to go to 45mm and it was easier fitting one of these than machining my original base out to 45mm and then buying the flared trumpets. Certainly seems to work ok.
Hope thats of some help.
I`ve also just fitted an AEM wideband and connected it up to the ecu as per what Jools would do to yours. Not stricktly needed if he is going to map it as it should come away from him pretty good. It will let you keep an eye on AFR`s but more importantly any other tuning work you do or alterations, you can put the ecu into adaptive mapping mode and it will then self map itself. Unless you are a tinkerer i wouldnt bother with a wideband as it becomes a bit obsessive constantly checking AFR`s. Just let him map it and then drive it. If however you like tinkering and messing get it fitted.
As stated above you dont really need a stepper motor with the Emerald as it can be mapped to cope with a cold start allbeit tick over may be a bit low for the first few minutes. I`d rather have this then a troublesome stepper. Or fit a modern 2 wire bosch idle valve which i have now done. If you cut the stepper air feed pipe the bosch idle valve fits perfectly into it like it was made to fit. Having said all this the Emerald doesnt support or change idle speed ( via the idle valve ) once the engine is up to temp. It relies on upping the ignition advance, ( spark scatter ) to do this if revs drop low which means for this to be effective you have to run a slightly retarded ignition advance at tickover. Having said that it wont be any lower than a stock dizzy as the engine likes a lot more advance than the dizzy can give at idle anyway. So the idle valve can only be mapped against engine temp during warm up, shame really as i would have liked it to control the idle ( when up to temp ) via the valve rather than using spark scatter. No biggy though as it does it very well.
Re Jools`s blended base i also have one of those as well. Is there a benefit; i dont know. Jools states in testing a 10bhp gain at the top end with no loss of low down torque. I chose it as i wanted to go to 45mm and it was easier fitting one of these than machining my original base out to 45mm and then buying the flared trumpets. Certainly seems to work ok.
Hope thats of some help.
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