Is this a bad idea?

[77racing]

QBee said:

This surely only applies if your spacers are over about 12mm thick?

12mm thick blimey buy some other wheels that have the right ET. too much stress on the studs at 12mm in my opinion. Qbee if you just want to space off one set as I have to do on one of my cars . I drilled/tapped the wheel hub and used flush counter sunk screw, that way the spacer comes off with that set of wheels and you don't need to remember to take spacers off, at our age we have enough to think about

[RobXjcoupe]

I agree with Qbee regarding wheels, look for ford fit at 7j wide and above. If you get wheels that need a spigot to correct the centre bore to 63.4 with a 40 something offset. Get the spacers made concentric to suit the wheel without the plastic spigot and obviously to suit the 63.4 centre bore. Everything will stay true on the hub. Fit longer studs accordingly

Picture shows a hubcentric spacer permanently pressed into the rear of a wheel with the larger hub centre hole converted to a smaller ford hub dimension

[QBee]

77racing said:

QBee said:

This surely only applies if your spacers are over about 12mm thick?

12mm thick blimey buy some other wheels that have the right ET. too much stress on the studs at 12mm in my opinion. Qbee if you just want to space off one set as I have to do on one of my cars . I drilled/tapped the wheel hub and used flush counter sunk screw, that way the spacer comes off with that set of wheels and you don't need to remember to take spacers off, at our age we have enough to think about

I have never bought wheels that required more than a 5mm spacer......but that's a neat idea Perry. I will do that in future, as I frequently manage to forget to leave the spacers on/off when changing wheels!!

[s p a c e m a n]

The studs shouldn't have any weight on them at all regardless of if you have a spacer fitted or not so they shouldn't be more stressed by fitting a spacer. You'll get away with a few mm without using hubcentric but I wouldn't go crazy, remember that it is the hub that should take all of the weight of the car by being inserted into the bore hole of the wheel. If there's not much hub inside the bore hole then there's not much holding your car up.
The studs are only there as a clamping force to hold the wheel against the hub, always use wheels with the correct size centre bore for your hub or fit spigot rings and never you those fking crappy bolt on hub pcd adapters. Fitting the spacers to the wheel is a good idea, never crossed my mind to do that. I'm always mixing the bloody things up, I tried marking them before but can never read it when I need to

[Richard 858]

QBee said:

Not sure what you mean by secure Richard? I have always used multi-fit spacers, not noticed any problems. They are very light anyway, and seem balanced to me. What issues have you seen? Interested....

By multi-fit I'm referring to those that can have slotted rather than specific PCD holes. When I tried this type I had trouble with precise wheel balance as there is too much variation (or tolerance) in the potential location of these spacers, even if the hub bore is accurate. I appreciate the 5mm spacers are light but any out of balance weight is out of balance.

I'm probably being pedantic (as usual) and any slight wheel/hub balance issue will probably only be noticed under extreme conditions.

[SILICONEKID345HP]

Wish ACT sold the Silverstone performance wheels in 16 and 17 "

[N7GTX]

I fitted 5mm wheel spacers when I did my brake upgrades to give caliper/wheel clearance. On the rears the spacers are behind the disc to correct the offset - on the front between the wheel and the hub. Not hub concentric.
Haven't noticed any wheel wobble/vibration/balance or one of the wheels overtaking me......

[QBee]

N7GTX said:

I fitted 5mm wheel spacers when I did my brake upgrades to give caliper/wheel clearance. On the rears the spacers are behind the disc to correct the offset - on the front between the wheel and the hub. Not hub concentric.
Haven't noticed any wheel wobble/vibration/balance or one of the wheels overtaking me......

I fitted 5 mm spacers on my trailer......and had a wheel overtake me on the A17 with the TVR on board......

Now have longer bolts. So it can happen. Make sure there is enough stud to be safe

[ClassicChimaera]

QBee said:

I fitted 5 mm spacers on my trailer......and had a wheel overtake me on the A17 with the TVR on board......

Now have longer bolts. So it can happen. Make sure there is enough stud to be safe

Kin ell, I better not put them on then

[QBee]

Never had a problem with them on the TVR Alun - still enough stud length.
My trailer has bolts, not studs, and they aren't as long.
What I am saying is, make sure you have enough turns of the nut if you use spacers. Much over 7mm and you will need longer studs.

[ClassicChimaera]

I changed Sheels studs for his front wheels.
My old job involved tightening up hundreds if not thousands of big bolts,,, hopefully there still tight or someone outside Fenchurch St station is gonna get a big shock when huge bits of glass fall on their noggin... from a great height

[Bassfiendnoideawhathp]

QBee said:

N7GTX said:

I fitted 5mm wheel spacers when I did my brake upgrades to give caliper/wheel clearance. On the rears the spacers are behind the disc to correct the offset - on the front between the wheel and the hub. Not hub concentric.
Haven't noticed any wheel wobble/vibration/balance or one of the wheels overtaking me......

I fitted 5 mm spacers on my trailer......and had a wheel overtake me on the A17 with the TVR on board......

Now have longer bolts. So it can happen. Make sure there is enough stud to be safe

Was that on your way to Castle Coombe?

Phil

[QBee]

Bassfiendnoideawhathp said:

QBee said:

N7GTX said:

I fitted 5mm wheel spacers when I did my brake upgrades to give caliper/wheel clearance. On the rears the spacers are behind the disc to correct the offset - on the front between the wheel and the hub. Not hub concentric.
Haven't noticed any wheel wobble/vibration/balance or one of the wheels overtaking me......

I fitted 5 mm spacers on my trailer......and had a wheel overtake me on the A17 with the TVR on board......

Now have longer bolts. So it can happen. Make sure there is enough stud to be safe

Was that on your way to Castle Coombe?

Phil

Nope. The Combe trip was my first outing, and that time the wheel ended up 75 yards behind me. I had had to fit the spacers just before setting off because on my final checks I noticed that the tyre, with the car loaded, was just touching the trailer one side. It was pissing down and I was cross at making myself late, so when the wheel parted company 120 miles later I just assumed that I had failed to torque up the bolts correctly in my hurry to set off.

Second time was on my fourth or fifth use of the trailer, when I was on the way to Hethel. I had gone about 5 miles this time when there was a bloke madly flashing me followed seconds later by a thump and the wheel came flying past. I knew I had torqued up properly this time, so the penny dropped. Got the wheel back on, drove slowly home, unloaded the car and drove it to the track.

Bought the longest bolts I could find the following week, fitted them and problem solved. Even drove it 500 miles in a day with an assortment of cars on board with no issues. Lesson learnt, always make sure your wheel bolts/studs are long enough when fitting spacers.

Just to make sure everyone understands, I have used 5mm spacers on the TVR itself for about 15,000 miles now, including about 20 track days, with no issues at all. The studs are long enough. I reckon if the spacers were 7mm or longer I would need longer studs. Studs are neither expensive or difficult to fit if you do need them.

Edited by QBee on Tuesday 17th January 04:34

[QBee]

A bit more background.....

I bought the trailer three weeks before the Castle Combe track day, so that I could safely (!) do the 300 mile round trip and take plenty of stuff with me. I spent the three weeks bringing the trailer up to proper spec, so that it could safely be used legally. Lights changed for LED, which I managed to wire up incorrectly. Winch fitted, new jockey wheel, trailer painted, trimming done so that the low TVR would go on without catching, car loaded and taken to the weighbridge, at which point I found the tyres weren't capable of carrying the load. Bought bigger wheels, ordered new tyres and mudguards.

Tyre delivery day, D day -1, the driver decided we weren't in, to save time. Grrrr. Card in the letter box by the gate.

Next day was drive to Combe day, so I was desperate to get the tyres. Missed the driver at 9 am, another card, spent the next hour chasing him all over my local town. Caught up with him, got the tyres at 10am. Got them fitted at 11am. Wheels fitted onto trailer, mud guards fitted. Loaded the trailer, loaded the car with tools, wheels etc, heavens opened. Checked and re-checked everything, ready for a 3pm departure. 2.45, just final checks, noticed the touching tyre and decided to fit my spare spacers.

Hence why I thought I hadn't torqued it up properly.

The journey took 7 hours, rain, nightmare Friday summer afternoon traffic. No indicators on the trailer, jockey wheel unwound itself after 70 miles and trashed itself on the road, wheel came off the trailer at 120 miles on the busy A429, police and RAC, got it back on, arrived at Combe tired and pissed off at 10pm to a welcome from Phazed with hot chilli and red wine in his camper van. Pitched my son-in-law's tent in the last knockings of daylight, only to find that my new camp bed was a foot longer than the tent! The end of a perfect day.....not.

But the track day more than made up for it, the gang were awesome, Phil helped me fix the trailer and Combe is great.

[ClassicChimaera]

I was once told a nut needs to be on a bolt and have a minimum of two to 3 threads showing for it to keep its structural integrity.
this is giving you the thickness of the nut + the two threads on the bolt

I've never had a bolt snap

Trailer wheels are subject to vibration,,, there's your problem if you ask me.

Hethel,,, you did well to make the last 5 mins of the driver briefing...

[QBee]

ClassicChimaera said:

Hethel,,, you did well to make the last 5 mins of the driver briefing...

It felt like the last 45 minutes.....My God, that bloke liked the sound of his own voice

Yes, I came across country, and the legendary Chimaera overtaking prowess come into its own.
Hot sunny day, track tyres already fitted, so shall we say they were nicely warmed up by the time I got to Hethel!

[ClassicChimaera]

QBee said:

It felt like the last 45 minutes.....My God, that bloke liked the sound of his own voice

Yes, I came across country, and the legendary Chimaera overtaking prowess come into its own.
Hot sunny day, track tyres already fitted, so shall we say they were nicely warmed up by the time I got to Hethel!

You weren't hanging around on track either.

[QBee]

ClassicChimaera said:

You weren't hanging around on track either.

It was a good session, and the track lent itself to a bit of bravery through the wiggly bits

[ClassicChimaera]

QBee said:

It was a good session, and the track lent itself to a bit of bravery through the wiggly bits

I had no idea you'd had such hassle until Peter mentioned it.

Easy track to learn, I loved it,,, it sucks you in,,,,, T1R's, , good god I'm brave:

Rainsports might be interesting round there

[portzi]

ClassicChimaera said:

I was once told a nut needs to be on a bolt and have a minimum of two to 3 threads showing for it to keep its structural integrity.
this is giving you the thickness of the nut + the two threads on the bolt

I've never had a bolt snap

Trailer wheels are subject to vibration,,, there's your problem if you ask me.

Hethel,,, you did well to make the last 5 mins of the driver briefing...

Gentleman IMHO please if your not sure when doing your;brake upgrades, brake disc or wheel spacers, please ask a knowledgeable person, as there are plenty of trusted trained Specialists to consult and if necessary do the job, it's just not worth risking your life or someone elses!!!!

Edited by portzi on Wednesday 18th January 15:50