Another option instead of the carbon plenums + div ECUs

[QBee]

Just re-read this thread and saw our offer to Ole, and anyone else for that matter.
Six of us are doing a track day at Snetterton next Wednesday (23/8). It's on Javelin's website. There is still space.
The attendees (so far) are moi (turbo Chim), Phazed (5.5 Chim with similar bhp to mine), John Halstead (in something he has rebuilt), Nick Halstead (Ginetta G40 GT5 race car), Alan Jones (Sagaris GTF race car) and hopefully Mat Smith (Chimaera 4.0 race car, 335 bhp).
There are also 4 x Radicals being driven by Scandinavians, several Caterham including a 620R, a MacLaren 675, etc etc.

If anyone wants to join us, book pronto.

http://www.javelintrackdays.co.uk/trackdays/index....
Attendees list is visible.

I can put you up if you can make it, Ole.

[Geoff38]

carsy said:

Geoff38, any update on this little project.

Hi , still ongoing , got the manifold and efi unit installed then started on the wiring in engine bay ( removing all unwanted bits and old ecu etc ) , then got distracted by all the other cr*p wiring behind the dash so have slowly been rewiring the whole lot. Then got bored with it and started playing on other projects. Will get back to it soon.
Cheers Geoff.




this is all engine bay wiring pulled back into footweel prior to cutting out ecu bits.

[OleVix]

QBee said:

Just re-read this thread and saw our offer to Ole, and anyone else for that matter.
Six of us are doing a track day at Snetterton next Wednesday (23/8). It's on Javelin's website. There is still space.
The attendees (so far) are moi (turbo Chim), Phazed (5.5 Chim with similar bhp to mine), John Halstead (in something he has rebuilt), Nick Halstead (Ginetta G40 GT5 race car), Alan Jones (Sagaris GTF race car) and hopefully Mat Smith (Chimaera 4.0 race car, 335 bhp).
There are also 4 x Radicals being driven by Scandinavians, several Caterham including a 620R, a MacLaren 675, etc etc.

If anyone wants to join us, book pronto.

http://www.javelintrackdays.co.uk/trackdays/index....
Attendees list is visible.

I can put you up if you can make it, Ole.

Thanks Anthony but I'm still in the USA on the 23. Which happens to be my birthday too

Have fun

[Belle427]

I think if i was going to put that carb style injection on and manifold id probably change the engine to a chevy 5.7 lump too!

[QBee]

OleVix said:

Thanks Anthony but I'm still in the USA on the 23. Which happens to be my birthday too

Have fun

Happy birthday Ole. It's mine the following day. This track day is my birthday present from SWMBO. Second best birthday present she could have given me. He third best is the cake she is baking for me

[ChimpOnGas]

Geoff38 said:

Hi , still ongoing , got the manifold and efi unit installed then started on the wiring in engine bay ( removing all unwanted bits and old ecu etc ) , then got distracted by all the other cr*p wiring behind the dash so have slowly been rewiring the whole lot. Then got bored with it and started playing on other projects. Will get back to it soon.
Cheers Geoff.




this is all engine bay wiring pulled back into footweel prior to cutting out ecu bits.

Like it

Where are you up to on cost so far?

I only ask because I have a mate with a V8 Wedge suffering flapper trouble

[Geoff38]

ChimpOnGas said:

Like it

Where are you up to on cost so far?

I only ask because I have a mate with a V8 Wedge suffering flapper trouble

If I had been paying simeone else to do it , a fortune in hours. As it is less than 2k in parts ( includes fuel pump unit , oil catch tank and loads of bits and bobs ) the efi and fuel pump units came from the usa so import duty adds a big chunk.
Owe Mat Smith for a few hours pulling it apart at the start.
Cheers.

[ChimpOnGas]

Geoff38 said:

ChimpOnGas said:

Like it

Where are you up to on cost so far?

I only ask because I have a mate with a V8 Wedge suffering flapper trouble

If I had been paying simeone else to do it , a fortune in hours. As it is less than 2k in parts ( includes fuel pump unit , oil catch tank and loads of bits and bobs ) the efi and fuel pump units came from the usa so import duty adds a big chunk.
Owe Mat Smith for a few hours pulling it apart at the start.
Cheers.

Not wishing to pish on your parade as I think you'll enjoy some lovely drivability improvements with your approach, but it would be wrong of me not to point out I paid the same figure to have my Canems multi point mappable fuel and spark engine management system fitted by Lloyd Specialist Developments.

Ok so that was some five years ago now and it was just before they became VAT registered, but on the other hand I dropped it off with them and picked it up two weeks later and all I did was write a cheque. I'll probably slap a carb on my mates Wedge if we can't get the old 14CU flapper system working as doing so will be about a grand including the manifold and a new carb.

I still like what you're doing though so don't take my comments the wrong way, I wish you every success with your project and I'm in no doubt the results will be excellent drivability (way better than a flapper system) combined with far better fuel economy than a carb.

Keep going, you're nearly there

Dave.

[Geoff38]

Cheers , yes this is really just a " lets see what this can do " type project .

[Geoff38]

Oh and to try and tidy up the engine bay , it looked awful before.

[OleVix]

QBee said:

OleVix said:

Thanks Anthony but I'm still in the USA on the 23. Which happens to be my birthday too

Have fun

Happy birthday Ole. It's mine the following day. This track day is my birthday present from SWMBO. Second best birthday present she could have given me. He third best is the cake she is baking for me

Thanks! Have fun with cake and racing

[Geoff38]

ChimpOnGas said:

I only ask because I have a mate with a V8 Wedge suffering flapper trouble

If you want to borrow any flapper bits to troubleshoot it ,I have the bits from mine which all work , Ecu , afm , power resistor.... Only up on Beds / Cambs border

[Boosted LS1]

One of my favourite engines was a turbocharged rv8 with a mechanical secondary holley on top. Changing jets and powervalves was a doddle. I used a mallory unilite dizzy. No efi or complicated stuff to get bogged down with and it was a very fast car.

A few years later I fitted a Motec with a handheld calibrator (fuel and spark). I also fitted a very primitive wideband with lights on my dashboard. it was good enough for me to set the car up whilst driving but took a long time. i couldn't have done it on my own with a laptop whilst driving.

A factory ecu guarantees plug and play right from the off so I can enjoy my driving. I like the approach above, it's still a bit old school but the car should fire up very quickly. It's horses for courses. :-)

[ChimpOnGas]

Geoff38 said:

ChimpOnGas said:

I only ask because I have a mate with a V8 Wedge suffering flapper trouble

If you want to borrow any flapper bits to troubleshoot it ,I have the bits from mine which all work , Ecu , afm , power resistor.... Only up on Beds / Cambs border

That's very kind, he's only just got it back on the road so I'll keep that in mind.

By the way, I really like your FI project, its a very credible and much more efficient alternative to carb and the manifold dictates you should get a lovely driving TVR, quite possibly better drivability than any multi point fuel & spark engine management system paired with the standard single plane manifold we all run.

This was my multi-point interpretation using the same Edelbrock Performer 2198 I imagined in 2012, the black dots denote the 8 injector bungs.



More an exercise of putting thoughts into an image, clearly its not the finished product, what works within the plenum would need some work.

The idea had four objectives:

1. Use a readily available dual plane inlet manifold (the 2198) for better drivability

2. Combine it with the efficiency benefits of multi-point injection

3. Use the existing plenum to keep the engine bay original

4. Achieve all the above using readily available components within a budget of £1,500

I still think with some tweaks and development the idea would work really well, there's no doubting that Edelbrock Performer 2198 dual plane manifold is going to deliver better drivability between 1,00rpm and 2,000rpm no matter what fuel delivery setup you use, even a carb. I never progressed it as I became heavily distracted by my LPG project, as part of this it became clear the better mixing of gas and air and the slower more complete burn of LPG (with the right components and ignition timing) gave me all the drivability improvements I sought without even touching the inlet side.

I've also deep dived the Gems manifold idea which is probably a much better bet than my multi-point Edelbrock Performer 2198 dual plane manifold idea as its already a multi-point injection manifold with provision for an idle extra air valve and has a throttle body with suitable TPS, the concern is while it'll definitely sort the low end drivability it may somewhat strangle the top end and there are certainly under bonnet packaging challenges to be overcome on a Chimaera or Griff.

Given I was able to meet my drivability objectives by switching to a better mixing and more complete burning fuel all these ideas have been parked. However LPG injector technology has progressed in the last few years, the excellent Hanas I currently run have really been superseded by the Barracudas from ALEX that were introduced four years ago.

More recently LPGTech introduced their Yeti injectors which have now been on the market for just over a year, by all accounts they are another step up from the Barracudas so I've bought a set of Yetis which are currently being tested with my Canems Dual Fuel ECU by David Hampshire at the Canems skunk works

Watch this space, if these new Yeti injectors deliver what the specs and reviews say they should they should move 'Ol Gasbag' on by another measurable margin.