Suspension parts/advice

[CanoeSniffer]

Hi all, reaching out to the PH community in what it turns out very quickly became my hour of need. My car is at Neil Garners for a health check and well, it didn't take them long to realise it was not in good shape. So I'm looking at outriggers and control arms as a minimum to be done for my car to even be safe. My old suspension is also not doing too fab and so it would only make sense to get this replaced whilst the car is up and dismantled at their place.

So, what our peoples reccomendations? I've heard a lot said about GG's and Bilsteins but nothing definitive. Availability/cost is probably the most important factor as it would appear I'm already running up quite a tab with NG's.

To that end, has anybody got any spare/old sets around that they would part with?

[ClassicChimaera]

I'm about to remove my Protech double adjustable shocks to have them re Furbed and possibly replace with some very expensive ones so they might be available soon.
I also have GGP's that might be just what your after, in very good nick. Cheap
PM me

Edited by ClassicChimaera on Tuesday 14th February 15:41

[Yex 450]

Bilsteins were the original fit as I understand it. You can have these refurbished and as you are having the outriggers done might make economic sense to help the overall cost a little. I had Gaz Gold Pro's fitted a few years ago and they are excellent. There are a lot of suspension options around, some of which cost into the thousands, but the GGP's I have suit my car for both road and track use and came in at c£750 fitted from memory.

I kept my original Bilsteins just in case I wanted them refurbed at some point, or I sell the car and the new owner wanted originality. Alun's offer above may well be worth a chat to him about as you could save a few bob here as well

[ClassicChimaera]

Yex 450 said:

Bilsteins were the original fit as I understand it. You can have these refurbished and as you are having the outriggers done might make economic sense to help the overall cost a little. I had Gaz Gold Pro's fitted a few years ago and they are excellent. There are a lot of suspension options around, some of which cost into the thousands, but the GGP's I have suit my car for both road and track use and came in at c£750 fitted from memory.

I kept my original Bilsteins just in case I wanted them refurbed at some point, or I sell the car and the new owner wanted originality. Alun's offer above may well be worth a chat to him about as you could save a few bob here as well

Makes perfect sense. Refurbished Billies isn't a bad idea but for very little more you could have my GGP
I think one needs revaluing to be honest but Gaz are very good with us Tvr owners so I'd be supprised if they charge much as these are only s few years old and like new really.
They've been hiding in a box for about a year so no worries either way

[Squirrelofwoe]

ClassicChimaera said:

I'm about to remove my Protech double adjustable shocks to have them re Furbed and possibly replace with some very expensive ones so they might be available soon.
I also have GGP's that might be just what your after, in very good nick. Cheap
PM me

Mine has Gaz Gold Pros too Mike- so if you want to come out for a ride in mine you can get an idea as to what the ride is like, then, if you're happy get in touch with Alun about relieving him of his set as above.

[CanoeSniffer]

Has everyone had universally good experiences with GGPs? I've heard a couple of horror stories before and the guys at NGs weren't really enamoured with them either

[trev4]

Following advice from a tall person who race's a Chimaera I went for Gas Monos, very pleased with them on Road and track.
I have the original shocks somewhere they will need referbishing but you are welcome to them if it helps.

[CanoeSniffer]

trev4 said:

Following advice from a tall person who race's a Chimaera I went for Gas Monos, very pleased with them on Road and track.
I have the original shocks somewhere they will need referbishing but you are welcome to them if it helps.

Hi Trev, thanks for the offer but my own originals aren't in terrible shape atm, I'd basically just figured that whilst all four corners are getting torn apart it would make sense to upgrade! Are the Monos adjustable and do you do any adjustment between having the car on road and track?

[ClassicChimaera]

Yes the monos are adjustable and a nice shock
Higher priced then the pro's, more on par with Nitrons

GGP had a few problems early on but in fairness to Gaz they have taken any that failed and rebuilt/ replaced them.

[caduceus]

I think it all depends on what your budget is. If there isn't one or it's generous, buy Ohlins. If it's tight, get the bilsteins refurbed if they need it. If you want something in the middle, GG's.
How much time are you realistically looking to spend on track?

[CanoeSniffer]

I'm not honestly sure what my track time will be atm. I had always maintained that I was going to own the car just to enjoy it's charm and sound and not go performance chasing at lots of expense, but I've always enjoyed racing and once I get the car on track I may end up hooked. My car is standard for the most part and I'm pretty restrained on the road so I don't think a hard track-focussed set up is instantly going to see me up the nearest tree over the bumps, but the car will still be seeing more road use than track so it'd be nice to retain some drivability.

[ClassicChimaera]

After trying three different types of shock on these cars I'd actually say it's all a muchness.
Ride and comfort will be more down to tyre's than anything any of these shocks can do.
Spring rate is probably a concern if going on track and then you need 600 ft lbs which becomes ridiculous for the roads so it's all a compromise.

[ChimpOnGas]

I've been through all this, started with knackered Bilsteins, went to GGP, went back to Bilsteins but a newer & better version.

I'm now running Ben Lang's latest Mk4 Tuscan 'S' spec Bilsteins that were bespoke sprung and valved to my car, they are perfect!

They did cost me a grand but the way they perform makes them brilliant value in my book, if your budget is too tight for latest Mk4 Tuscan 'S' spec units, I strongly recommend just getting your original Bilsteins reconditioned.

GGPs are fine but are more track day focused in my experience, being rose jointed they will also be nosier given our lovely roads, saying that I ran them for years on the road without too much issue.

But make no mistake, for regular road use Bilsteins are way better, even reconditioned standard Bilstens. Don't ditch the high quality OEM German Made Bilsteins just because they're a bit tired and look snotty, get them refurbished and you'll end up with the better suspension at a far cheaper price.

Better for less... what's not to like?

Edited by ChimpOnGas on Wednesday 15th February 00:37

[trev4]

CanoeSniffer said:

trev4 said:

Following advice from a tall person who race's a Chimaera I went for Gas Monos, very pleased with them on Road and track.
I have the original shocks somewhere they will need referbishing but you are welcome to them if it helps.

Hi Trev, thanks for the offer but my own originals aren't in terrible shape atm, I'd basically just figured that whilst all four corners are getting torn apart it would make sense to upgrade! Are the Monos adjustable and do you do any adjustment between having the car oin road and track?

I tend to set the car up 2 down from hard on front and 5 down on back for the track which works well for me,on the road I have them quite soft probably a little to soft but the roads are so bad these days I tend to go for comfort, that's the beauty of adjustable shocks you can set them how you want them there is no right or wrong.

[ClassicChimaera]

trev4 said:

I tend to set the car up 2 down from hard on front and 5 down on back for the track which works well for me,on the road I have them quite soft probably a little to soft but the roads are so bad these days I tend to go for comfort, that's the beauty of adjustable shocks you can set them how you want them there is no right or wrong.

This is so true, suspension and ones expectations can be different from day to day. One day I like my settings then the next not so.
I'll re iterate what I said earlier, if the damper and spring rate is correct then the tyre's make a bigger difference to ride and compliance than any shock with 2.5 in of travel!
A few weeks ago on bone hard low profile T1R tyre's my front shocks felt pathetic over quick succession bumps and sudden breaks in the tarmac rattling right through the car and steering,, changed tyre's to something far more suited to a light car and boom,,, front feels fantastic and planted and soft and better than shocks will ever achieve IMHO

[trev4]

ClassicChimaera said:

trev4 said:

I tend to set the car up 2 down from hard on front and 5 down on back for the track which works well for me,on the road I have them quite soft probably a little to soft but the roads are so bad these days I tend to go for comfort, that's the beauty of adjustable shocks you can set them how you want them there is no right or wrong.

This is so true, suspension and ones expectations can be different from day to day. One day I like my settings then the next not so.
I'll re iterate what I said earlier, if the damper and spring rate is correct then the tyre's make a bigger difference to ride and compliance than any shock with 2.5 in of travel!
A few weeks ago on bone hard low profile T1R tyre's my front shocks felt pathetic over quick succession bumps and sudden breaks in the tarmac rattling right through the car and steering,, changed tyre's to something far more suited to a light car and boom,,, front feels fantastic and planted and soft and better than shocks will ever achieve IMHO

Have to agree about the importance of having good tyres and tyre pressures make a huge difference, Its just a matter of having a play and finding what suits your driving style.

[CanoeSniffer]

I have to say I never really had a problem with how mine was handling on the original suspension with only mediocre tyres, I may just be unfussy though having limited experience- Dave (Squirrelofwoe) may be better placed to comment on how the ride was in mine compared to his with GGP's, though he is running bigger sidewalls on the Imolas. I'm only seeing the need to replace due to my originals starting to feel their age and the convenience of having the car dismantled at NG's anyway. Has anyone has the Bilsteins refurbed and can give me an idea of cost?

[ClassicChimaera]

^^^^^ it's just me,,, I have a fixation on ride quality.
I often bemoan my Chimaeras scuttle shake etc but actually it's very good.
I've been driving a number of modern road cars and vans recently and then the Tvr,,, it's much better than I've often given it credit.
Is it me but good ride seems to be at the bottom of the list for car designers these days.
I was spoiled in owning an original Jag.. Xj6 series 3 and boy that rode bumps, ride is a far greater quality than we give credit for and although I like my Chim to be Angry at times I also like it lazy and easy to live with.
I always understood how the tyre choice on the Jag was very important to maintain the suspensions character, it's no surprise many cars are designed with a tyre in mind or even designed for the car. Tyre's are everything in my book.

[ChimpOnGas]

ClassicChimaera said:

I have a fixation on ride quality, I often bemoan my Chimaeras scuttle shake etc but actually it's very good.
I've been driving a number of modern road cars and vans recently and then the Tvr,,, it's much better than I've often given it credit. Is it me but good ride seems to be at the bottom of the list for car designers these days.

Much, if not all, of the problem is tyres Alun!

Modern cars are amazingly structurally rigid, their OEM suspension components and geometry are light years ahead of that used on our our cars too, finally modern cars are way heavier... adding weight being the oldest trick in the 'improving ride quality' book.

So why do modern cars ride so poorly?

Well the truth is the fashion for bigger wheels has in turn (unless you choose a 4x4) dictated the use of lower and lower profile tyres, or worst still the dreadful low profile run flat tyres fitted to most everyday modern cars.

In the mid 1800s there was a really clever bloke called Robert William Thomson who came up with the genius idea of wrapping a cart wheel in a vulcanised rubber bladder then filling it with air.... which immediately delivered unthinkably good ride quality.

Oddly ever since then we have been systemically removing more and more of that wonderful air... to the extent where even the excellent quality suspension components and geometry of today's cars will struggle to offer acceptable ride quality.

I'm a firm believer in a bit of side wall on the tyre, and filled with a decent helping of good old fashioned air, combine this with a decent set of Bilstens to finish the job of nicely. This is especially true of a less rigid and creaky separate chassis/body car like the TVR Chimaera.

You will suffer a bit more tyre wall deflection with higher profile tyres, but it won't impact your A-B scratching times in the way you think. In truth you'll be way faster on real roads where compliant suspension and some give in your tyres wins every time...... and wins hands down too!

The polar opposite of the above strategy being what a lot of Carlos Fandango Chimaera owners seem to do, which is fit a set of of budget rose jointed adjustable coil overs, adjust them a bit too hard, fit a set of 17" wheels (or worst still 18s), and finally shod them with highly inappropriate low profile tyres.

Carlos Fandango thinks he's being sporty, and Carlos thinks he's making his car faster, but the truth is on the road all Carlos is actually doing is shaking his fillings out and ultimately making his car 'Real World' slower in the process.

[ClassicChimaera]

I knew you'd throw in those funky Bilsteins at some point
You mention 4x4 and as I was walking past one said 4x4 that took up the whole Pavement and half the road yet the bloke wore polished shoes !!!!
And a thought crossed my mind,,,, these dumb low profile tyre's have sent people into,these massive pieces of wasted metal simply because they ride the bumps better on fat tyres,,,, saloon cars need decent compliance comfort and ride instead of all this sporty bks and look they all go for.
Suspension has got better so tyre's are less important,,, Transit Vans ride better than some of these cars,, I can't understand how the public accept it....... I just miss that heavy old Jag