Coolant issue.
Discussion
I'm just about to eat my home made cottage pie 
then test it again.
It takes longer putting these pics up than it does to bleed the system.
Now I'm either very lucky or something's still amiss. No 2 plug looks and felt terrible.
I've never heard anything quite so metallic as last night other than when two stokes broke rings as a youth!
Could the localised boiling or rises and dropping of air in the system cause such horrendous knocking/tapping almost crunching noises within the inlet manifold. An engine switched off and knocking with such force the engine shudders and that can only be the water system surely is something to be seen
Last night I was convinced I heard mechanical parts clashing at one point. Maybe it was the water system all along.
There's got to be a reason for this air and that's what I have to determine next. That and what's happening in my combustion chambers to give such deposits on the plugs.
Doms been great and I hope this is me over reacting but until he's seen it I'm not overly convinced things are in good shape.
Hope someone learns stuff from this. Cheers Al.
then test it again. It takes longer putting these pics up than it does to bleed the system.
Now I'm either very lucky or something's still amiss. No 2 plug looks and felt terrible.
I've never heard anything quite so metallic as last night other than when two stokes broke rings as a youth!
Could the localised boiling or rises and dropping of air in the system cause such horrendous knocking/tapping almost crunching noises within the inlet manifold. An engine switched off and knocking with such force the engine shudders and that can only be the water system surely is something to be seen
Last night I was convinced I heard mechanical parts clashing at one point. Maybe it was the water system all along.
There's got to be a reason for this air and that's what I have to determine next. That and what's happening in my combustion chambers to give such deposits on the plugs.
Doms been great and I hope this is me over reacting but until he's seen it I'm not overly convinced things are in good shape.
Hope someone learns stuff from this. Cheers Al.
trev4 said:
Hi Alun, when I changed my coolant pipes a couple of years back I took the expansion bottle off to make it easier to fit the small pipe and was really surprised how much sludge was in the bottom, so I could see how it could quite easily get blocked. let's hope it's something simple like that, good luck with it.
Trev.
Thanks Trev. Well it's not blocked now that's all I can say. Trev.
Let me run it up again and maybe take it round the bloc then check when it's all cold.
Then head over to see a real mechanic tomorrow
Discopotatoes said:
How big is that plug gap? it looks huge, maybe the photo but get a feeler gauge on it and let us know
also have you got a better close up of the ground electrode? you can tell a lot from the position of the colour band
Is this one any better. also have you got a better close up of the ground electrode? you can tell a lot from the position of the colour band
Edited by Discopotatoes on Thursday 30th March 20:21
You'll need to thumbsnap it and then press again on pic so see it clearly.
There's something wrong but it might not be as bad as first thought, I don't think it is liners.
Discopotatoes said:
if that plug colour is grey then it looks like its running hot/ leanthe metal ice fleck could possibly detonation, if you can get hold of a boroscope and check the top of the pistons
It's the next thing. It's been running really well, I barely rev it if the truth be told. It's a ruddy nightmare.
JWzed said:
Shot in the dark I know, but has your thermostat jammed shut?
I missed this,,, that's gone through my mind but I've bled the system and no water went in, bit of air but only with high revvin. My funnel virtually stayed at the same level throughout the bleeding process maybe 10 mm higher when water was 90 degrees, when cooled it was at vitually the same place as when I started bleeding and fans came on and off. Stats opening. I pulled the engine breather pipes last night too, bone dry.
Detonation has been mentioned, this is possible . I listen to the engine and exhaust note constantly and marvel at the firing, detonation may have been going on since Saturday, some of these noises could be just that but why. Mbe ign, recently checked over and shown to be running very well.
Something very odd had happened and my idle screw was adjusted because it was to Rich.
Looking at the plugs I've pulled out it looks like it's to lean.
The reality of this is hitting home now. Gutted isn't the word.
pb450 said:
So in summary Alun, you can find virtually nothing wrong with all your checks...?
EXACTLY, I appreciate this because I'm wondering if I'm going mad! The plugs are terrible. To lean. Need to check bores and pistons ASAP.
But why.
Ive been sitting here annalysing my driving over the last two months. New tyre's, then Dif replaced, I've used it to go to a cafe about 10 miles away 4 times, a few runs testing tyre's in winter so bloody slow. Dog walking trips, a couple of trips to my mother and family, a few local journeys.
I'm mindful of most things, I run the engine up, I drive further than I need to to make sure it's fully warmed up before switching it off, I don't get mayo as I don't stop start it when it's cold, it's started and warmed then turned off. It's like a bloody jewel to me!
I can't see how this has happened. Anyway it has and I'll have to find away to repair it.
It's hard enough to maintain/ restore an old car let alone have to re visit stuff you thought you'd cured!
Bluebottle said:
Hi Alun..
not read all the posts on this but, did you pull all the plugs and do they all look like the No. 2 plug posted up?
No. I've been over to Powers and I removed plugs there. no 2 had what looked like aluminium sharps on it yesterday and was darker and bloody well looked normal today. All other plugs also came out looking fine. I suggested it might be running lean but according to the boys no. Here's another plug No 6 not read all the posts on this but, did you pull all the plugs and do they all look like the No. 2 plug posted up?
Suns shining so it looks lighter than it is.
Powers are busy, I never booked it in so after bleeding the system myself I was confident to drive over and let them look.
Pulled plugs and good results with colour today!
To do leak down/ compression tests I'll need to give them more notice which is fair enough as other customers want their cars too.
I can do these tests rather than bother them with it so I'll do both and get a camera down the bores.
Stuck thermostat is a real possibility but it should have boiled over!!
Slipped liner
Cracked block is another.
There is no air in the system. If this problem occurs again and air is in the system then suspect liner/ cracked/ pourus block but until it's apart you can't be sure.
I bled the system, didn't take much if any coolant to top it up and didn't really feel like I'd got much air out but my temps are spot on again so air was in there as far as I'm concerned.
I mentioned sounds like cracking of metal, shocking!
You'd be surprised what noises these engines can make when there over heating.
I might have a weep on a head gasket for all I know.
Run the engine up at Powers and left until fans kicked in and out 4 times and Dom then came over and listened to it. There's nothing wrong with its mechanical operation and anyone can tell you that if you listen to it purr.
I thought it sounded a bit groggy on cold start up( water in bores) yesterday but I can't be sure. I'll monitor that as that's a clear pointer.
So engine seems ok, water systems working but I'm still worried about detonation etc so the sooner I look at the pistons the better. No 2 especially.
Cheeers for the words guys, it all helps.
Pulled plugs and good results with colour today!
To do leak down/ compression tests I'll need to give them more notice which is fair enough as other customers want their cars too.
I can do these tests rather than bother them with it so I'll do both and get a camera down the bores.
Stuck thermostat is a real possibility but it should have boiled over!!
Slipped liner
Cracked block is another.
There is no air in the system. If this problem occurs again and air is in the system then suspect liner/ cracked/ pourus block but until it's apart you can't be sure.
I bled the system, didn't take much if any coolant to top it up and didn't really feel like I'd got much air out but my temps are spot on again so air was in there as far as I'm concerned.
I mentioned sounds like cracking of metal, shocking!
You'd be surprised what noises these engines can make when there over heating.
I might have a weep on a head gasket for all I know.
Run the engine up at Powers and left until fans kicked in and out 4 times and Dom then came over and listened to it. There's nothing wrong with its mechanical operation and anyone can tell you that if you listen to it purr.
I thought it sounded a bit groggy on cold start up( water in bores) yesterday but I can't be sure. I'll monitor that as that's a clear pointer.
So engine seems ok, water systems working but I'm still worried about detonation etc so the sooner I look at the pistons the better. No 2 especially.
Cheeers for the words guys, it all helps.
Thinking aloud again, detonation, I'd expect to feel somethimg more through the transmission and slight hesitancy, and bent rods.
Other than a tapping sound even on feathered throttle opening there was no stutter at all.
Tapping was every 20 -30 seconds or so.
Hmmm means nothing, I'd recognise pinking from 50 paces away, but detonation, not so sure.
Other than a tapping sound even on feathered throttle opening there was no stutter at all.
Tapping was every 20 -30 seconds or so.
Hmmm means nothing, I'd recognise pinking from 50 paces away, but detonation, not so sure.
Reassuring words. Cheers boys
Hard to detect on the internet, even harder to describe it
Cracked blocks, bent rods, serious talk. No wonder I have silver hair
Tell me do I worry to much, if you'd heard and felt those noises I felt last night. Bloody aider man!
Iain, I'm going to swap no 2 around for now and see what it does in another bore and visa versa. All plugs today looked good and No 2 looked very different from last night! I took it out and stood there embarrassed.
You have no idea what Dom has to put up with.
Watched some lovely machining going on, I'd quite like another engine rebuild in another 20,000 miles when I can afford it.
Trouble is with Tivs, you need a pot of 5K waiting,,,, just in case
When you ain't got that pot it is a nervy experience.
So here I am, still not sure yet feeling like the car sounds and runs very good. They must be strong things.
Bugger it, I'll change the stat cos I can't handle that s
t again,,, see how it goes.
Dave, water pump. I did notice today from 900 revs and rising to about 1400 with ear very close a slight high pitched whine. You can't notice it if you stand up but it's there.
Air in the system it just has to be, so it's all down to if and when I have air again really because once it's bled and sealed it should not get air back in.
It's not a nice prospect so we'll just have to see.
For a mechanic bleeding these cars us as basic as it gets, if you do it properly you can't really go wrong. I've done it enough times to think it's like checking the oil. I swear I could hear water rushing in the heater matrix on the way home.
Rather than wait for this to happen again I'm going to bleed it pretty soon and see what I get.
If I had air in the system and my funnel with coolant drops by about 5 mm, is that enough water missing to cause air locks. Trying to be accurate it did take say half a cup full. Bugger all really but trapped air doesn't nesessarily take up much space,,,, or does it.
Let's just hope I had air, it's gone and my life returns to some normality.
The thought of no Tvr drug today was quite nerve wracking. Need to get a life.
When your going through these woes, mechanics words are like gold dust. Thanks for the thoughts on this gentlemen.
We'll see.
,,,
Hard to detect on the internet, even harder to describe it
Cracked blocks, bent rods, serious talk. No wonder I have silver hair
Tell me do I worry to much, if you'd heard and felt those noises I felt last night. Bloody aider man!
Iain, I'm going to swap no 2 around for now and see what it does in another bore and visa versa. All plugs today looked good and No 2 looked very different from last night! I took it out and stood there embarrassed.
You have no idea what Dom has to put up with.
Watched some lovely machining going on, I'd quite like another engine rebuild in another 20,000 miles when I can afford it.
Trouble is with Tivs, you need a pot of 5K waiting,,,, just in case
When you ain't got that pot it is a nervy experience.
So here I am, still not sure yet feeling like the car sounds and runs very good. They must be strong things.
Bugger it, I'll change the stat cos I can't handle that s
t again,,, see how it goes. Dave, water pump. I did notice today from 900 revs and rising to about 1400 with ear very close a slight high pitched whine. You can't notice it if you stand up but it's there.
Air in the system it just has to be, so it's all down to if and when I have air again really because once it's bled and sealed it should not get air back in.
It's not a nice prospect so we'll just have to see.
For a mechanic bleeding these cars us as basic as it gets, if you do it properly you can't really go wrong. I've done it enough times to think it's like checking the oil. I swear I could hear water rushing in the heater matrix on the way home.
Rather than wait for this to happen again I'm going to bleed it pretty soon and see what I get.
If I had air in the system and my funnel with coolant drops by about 5 mm, is that enough water missing to cause air locks. Trying to be accurate it did take say half a cup full. Bugger all really but trapped air doesn't nesessarily take up much space,,,, or does it.
Let's just hope I had air, it's gone and my life returns to some normality.
The thought of no Tvr drug today was quite nerve wracking. Need to get a life.
When your going through these woes, mechanics words are like gold dust. Thanks for the thoughts on this gentlemen.
We'll see.
,,,
pb450 said:
Know what you mean... Your reliability confidence takes a big dent, until you know exactly why and what - especially after so many trouble-free miles. Sounds like you have bags of 'mechanicle sympathy' with your driving style, so don't beat yourself up there.
Assume your engine builder will take a good exploratory look to identify cause and effect. With luck he'll find the former but not the latter! Until then, I'd say you've done everything you can yourself to check it all out.
Patience is the next step, until 'the Man' can assess further. Hopefully that's really soon! Have faith.
Mechanical sympathy is my pride. Assume your engine builder will take a good exploratory look to identify cause and effect. With luck he'll find the former but not the latter! Until then, I'd say you've done everything you can yourself to check it all out.
Patience is the next step, until 'the Man' can assess further. Hopefully that's really soon!
Have faith. Even racing drivers have to smooth out all the edges to be fast.
I consider smooth slow speed driving as much a skill as high speed driving and with a new diff I'm hardly throwing horsepower through it!
I've missed a number of responses on here, (blaze away ) Frank. Thankyou so much, very kind.
Im still in shock I think. Not sure what to make of it all.
I'm going sprinting with my mate tomorrow in a £800 MGTF makes you wonder some days.
Steve_D said:
If you think it is lean have you checked to see if your fuel pump is producing the right pressure?
Somewhere else on the TVR forums in the last few days the same problem was identified with a pump free flowing nicely into a bucket but not able to maintain a pressure.
Steve
Interestingly enough, my RV8 is fitted with Speed Six injectors and fuel regulator. Somewhere else on the TVR forums in the last few days the same problem was identified with a pump free flowing nicely into a bucket but not able to maintain a pressure.
Steve
I've just replaced the fuel filter. But not the pump. It's always worked as you'd expect and no abnormal noises from it. I'll keep thst one in the back of my mind over fuelling. Jason wasn't at Powers yesterday, everyone's got jobs to do and thebplugs as far as Dom was concerned were ok. Contrary to earlier when I'd pulled the plugs they had a nice brown look.
I've had a problem with idle screw once, running rough, Jason reckoned the idle screw had been turned over 360 from where it should have been. Im adamant I haven't touched it or moved it so far out of position. I've been watching it since, it hasn't moved as far as I can tell as I've been wondering if it doesn't bind well and turns on it's own accord ( vibration) but it's a red herring!
Bluebottle said:
run it and if the symptom returns, pull all the plugs...
If they all look similar then its a fueling issue which could be a weak/dying fuel pump of weak regulator, dirty fuel or debri/blockage in fuel tank or even water, it could be the carbon canister causing suction in the tank...can you here the tank making a noise? i have had all of the above at some point. but none caused air in the cooling system.
when you pull the plugs does one bank look different to the other? if so then injector bank firing issue or faulty lambda but both would usually make one bank run very rich unless the lambda is sticking closed and not open?
If its localised to one plug then its down to a leak in that cylinder or that one injector, as poor ignition would cause it to run cool not hot.
I had a head gasket breakdown between #5 & #7 bores, not enough to cause hydrocarbons in the coolant, initially when trying to diagnose it but if i took the revs over 4.5k it would start to pressurize the water jacket causing symptoms similar to an air lock in system. the leak caused #5 to scavenge from #7 making it run very lean on that one cylinder and the plug looked like yours when we pulled it, but not until i'd melted a piston at Snetterton
The other symptom was the occasional sound like a mechanical ticking similar to a leaking manifold gasket. A leak down test (not a basic compression test) would rule this possibility out as you will here the air leaking and can track down the location with stethoscope.
Could be something completely different but the above are all issues i have had in the past.
Hmmm, alarm bells ringing here, sounds very similar. I've driven it to and back from Powers. If they all look similar then its a fueling issue which could be a weak/dying fuel pump of weak regulator, dirty fuel or debri/blockage in fuel tank or even water, it could be the carbon canister causing suction in the tank...can you here the tank making a noise? i have had all of the above at some point. but none caused air in the cooling system.
when you pull the plugs does one bank look different to the other? if so then injector bank firing issue or faulty lambda but both would usually make one bank run very rich unless the lambda is sticking closed and not open?
If its localised to one plug then its down to a leak in that cylinder or that one injector, as poor ignition would cause it to run cool not hot.
I had a head gasket breakdown between #5 & #7 bores, not enough to cause hydrocarbons in the coolant, initially when trying to diagnose it but if i took the revs over 4.5k it would start to pressurize the water jacket causing symptoms similar to an air lock in system. the leak caused #5 to scavenge from #7 making it run very lean on that one cylinder and the plug looked like yours when we pulled it, but not until i'd melted a piston at Snetterton
The other symptom was the occasional sound like a mechanical ticking similar to a leaking manifold gasket. A leak down test (not a basic compression test) would rule this possibility out as you will here the air leaking and can track down the location with stethoscope.
Could be something completely different but the above are all issues i have had in the past.
I'll check plugs again
might aswell ! I can borrow a camera to go in the bores but not until Monday. I'll do all the tests I can before driving it again. Seemed pretty normal on the way home although I didn't accelerate hard at all.
No holed piston yet!
Borescope
Compression
Leak down
Fuelling checks.
Ok thanks for such clear words. That's all that counts. Cheers indeed
ETA ETA ETA ETA
Last Friday before this happened I went over to Powers for Dif oil and a chat, as you do
On leaving I started the car then opened the boot to drop oil in, heard hissing from fuel cap, not the first time over the years mind so released it as I thought it seemed rather more than it's been before!!!!!! Hmmmmm Saturday this started happening. I've still got carbon canister!
What's the safest way to just dis connect it so I can see what happens to the fuelling.
Probably a long shot but it's time I just vented it to air really.
I'll search for old threads. You learn fast when your prides heart is threatened.
Gordon Bennett.
Edited by ClassicChimaera on Saturday 1st April 12:16
Edited by ClassicChimaera on Saturday 1st April 12:17
Just thought I'd update this.
After almost frightening myself out my wits with this cooling issue and all the waffle that goes with it
The only real thing I've done was to replace Swirl pot bung and O ring and replace bleed screw in radiator incl fibre washer.
Nipped everything up bled the thing enough times but since bleeding it before Burghley which included adding the two things mentioned above it's been spot on.
I'm going to service the car just in case I fancy a couple of goes at the 1/4 mile at Shakespear ( highly recommended ) and replace antifreeze and thermostat whilst I'm at it. I drove it for 3 hours earlier and everything was perfecto.
After almost frightening myself out my wits with this cooling issue and all the waffle that goes with it
The only real thing I've done was to replace Swirl pot bung and O ring and replace bleed screw in radiator incl fibre washer.
Nipped everything up bled the thing enough times but since bleeding it before Burghley which included adding the two things mentioned above it's been spot on.
I'm going to service the car just in case I fancy a couple of goes at the 1/4 mile at Shakespear ( highly recommended ) and replace antifreeze and thermostat whilst I'm at it. I drove it for 3 hours earlier and everything was perfecto.
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