Water/Coolant levels on a Chim
Discussion
The expansion tank is a dead end. You may want to put some fluid in it to stop air getting sucked back into the cooling system, but if you're trying to get fluid into the cooling system, fill it through the swirl pot. You also need to measure the fluid level in the swirl pot. The swirl pot is on the nearside of the engine bay, big vertically mounted aluminium tube with a brass cap screwed into the top. Big flat-bladed screwdriver laid over on its side will let you unscrew the cap.
Editted to say, if you don't fill through the swirl pot, the air in the swirlpot won't be able to escape.
>> Edited by ATG on Thursday 16th January 17:26
Editted to say, if you don't fill through the swirl pot, the air in the swirlpot won't be able to escape.
>> Edited by ATG on Thursday 16th January 17:26
Thanks guys,
have done it, only needed a measuring jug full of water, it's now just a tad over half way up the cylinder. I just used water this time, hope thats ok!!!!
Also had the 2nd edition of Steve heath's book come today too!!, so I shall have a good
of that tonight. I have noticed, though, that for the £36 it cost me in total, they could have bound the pages properly, they keep falling out at the back!!!!
hey ho
have done it, only needed a measuring jug full of water, it's now just a tad over half way up the cylinder. I just used water this time, hope thats ok!!!!
Also had the 2nd edition of Steve heath's book come today too!!, so I shall have a good
of that tonight. I have noticed, though, that for the £36 it cost me in total, they could have bound the pages properly, they keep falling out at the back!!!! hey ho
Take Mr Heath as definitive, but this is how I understood things ... Always a bit of confusion round this and the descrptions of how to check/refill the cooling system due to the change in its layout when the serpentine engine came out. Main source of confusion is that the blue pressure cap used to be on the swirl pot on the older engines, but moved to the expansion tank on the serpentine models.
The swirl pot is an aluminium tank that looks a bit like a big thermos flask. It's about half way along the nearside of the engine bay. You can easily see its part of the cooling system coz it has got water pipes going into it near the top and out near the bottom. And as I said, it has a big brass screw cap on the top.
If you try to fill through the expansion tank (offside front of the engine bay with a blue pressure cap on top) you won't be getting any fluid back into the cooling system because there is no way for the air to escape as the fluid tries to go in.
The swirl pot is an aluminium tank that looks a bit like a big thermos flask. It's about half way along the nearside of the engine bay. You can easily see its part of the cooling system coz it has got water pipes going into it near the top and out near the bottom. And as I said, it has a big brass screw cap on the top.
If you try to fill through the expansion tank (offside front of the engine bay with a blue pressure cap on top) you won't be getting any fluid back into the cooling system because there is no way for the air to escape as the fluid tries to go in.
Thanks for that ATG 
, much appreciated
I do have the Steve Heath book, came today!!!, but falling apart!! lol. Am about to have a good read of it.
There is one thing I was meaning to ask,, My fianccee has an MGZR160, only 3 months old. She has told me that sometimes, when she has just started a journey in the car, the brakes are next to useless. Now, we went on an MG forum and they told us it was just the wet weather! However, the car is only 3 months old with big ABS brakes, and she says that she has to put her foot to the floor to get only a mild bite from the brakes!!!! Only occasionally though! That is not right surely!!
Chris
, much appreciated I do have the Steve Heath book, came today!!!, but falling apart!! lol. Am about to have a good read of it.
There is one thing I was meaning to ask,, My fianccee has an MGZR160, only 3 months old. She has told me that sometimes, when she has just started a journey in the car, the brakes are next to useless. Now, we went on an MG forum and they told us it was just the wet weather! However, the car is only 3 months old with big ABS brakes, and she says that she has to put her foot to the floor to get only a mild bite from the brakes!!!! Only occasionally though! That is not right surely!!
Chris
have rang the MG dealer now ATG, it's being looked at on wednesday, under warranty. The inner door pull cover keeps coming off too,, whenever she closes the door, and there are a few other niggles!! Have had my 'unreliable' TVR for the same amount of time, and has been perfect!!!
So much for for buying new from a large (reletively) car manufacture!!
I guess I am biased though, have never liked spoilers and side skirts!!
So much for for buying new from a large (reletively) car manufacture!!
I guess I am biased though, have never liked spoilers and side skirts!!
ATG said: Take Mr Heath as definitive, but this is how I understood things ... Always a bit of confusion round this and the descrptions of how to check/refill the cooling system due to the change in its layout when the serpentine engine came out. Main source of confusion is that the blue pressure cap used to be on the swirl pot on the older engines, but moved to the expansion tank on the serpentine models.
The swirl pot is an aluminium tank that looks a bit like a big thermos flask. It's about half way along the nearside of the engine bay. You can easily see its part of the cooling system coz it has got water pipes going into it near the top and out near the bottom. And as I said, it has a big brass screw cap on the top.
If you try to fill through the expansion tank (offside front of the engine bay with a blue pressure cap on top) you won't be getting any fluid back into the cooling system because there is no way for the air to escape as the fluid tries to go in.
Now I'm no expert but exactly what is the air doing in the swirl tank anyway? Surely there shouldn't be any air in there otherwise you're going to have an airlock somewhere expensive. There shouldn't be any air in the system anywhere so then you can top up through the expansion tank.
Hutch
ATG said: Of course there shouldn't be much air in there, but that is exactly the same thing as saying the system should be full of coolant. If your system is low on coolant, what do you think is occupying the empty volume?
Air that you need to remove as you top up the expansion tank presumably
The expansion tank is just that, a tank that holds the excess water when it expands in the cooling system (rad and engine) when it gets hot. When it cools back down and contracts the cooling system sucks it back in from the tank ready for the next time. If all is well there will be no air in the cooling system but always varying amounts in the expansion tank.
The coolant should be at least 50:50 mix with Glycol antifreeze(eg Bluecol), diluting the coolant is a bad idea, especially this time of year
Ivan
The coolant should be at least 50:50 mix with Glycol antifreeze(eg Bluecol), diluting the coolant is a bad idea, especially this time of year
Ivan
hut49 said: Air that you need to remove as you top up the expansion tank presumably
Yes, but how does that air get out? It needs a route out of the system and the open expansion tank doesn't provide it, but the swirl pot does.
Quick point on the coolant expanding as it gets hot ... liquids don't expand much when they get hot, only by a fraction of a percent. But gasses expand a lot when they get hot. If you have a large influx of fluid into the expanison tank when the engine is hot, this indicates that there is air trapped in your coolant system, and this means it needs topping up in order to expel the air. Sucking liquid back into the main system as it cools doesn't expel the air.
you should do a search as there is a lot of stuff on the cooling system here. you can make up your own mind when you read where people have got their information.
if you open the swirl pot use 2 screwdrivers, so they push against each other, as this will make it easier to balance the force you put through the screw and the tank.
if you open the swirl pot use 2 screwdrivers, so they push against each other, as this will make it easier to balance the force you put through the screw and the tank.
OK, so in a mass produced engine when you fill up through the expansion tank why does that work OK?
most mass produced cars manuals just say top up using this method so why isnt it a good idea in a TVR?, surely they use the same cooling system principles, rover engine and all?
have to say I am a little confused though, surely if you fill up through the swirl tank you have the same problem of a possible air block because the air has no where to escape to , filling up whereever and then bleeding the system sounds like a more reasonable route..
good topic though....
most mass produced cars manuals just say top up using this method so why isnt it a good idea in a TVR?, surely they use the same cooling system principles, rover engine and all?
have to say I am a little confused though, surely if you fill up through the swirl tank you have the same problem of a possible air block because the air has no where to escape to , filling up whereever and then bleeding the system sounds like a more reasonable route..
good topic though....
ribol said: ATG - you get air out of a cooling system by bleeding it which is why a lot of cooling systems have bleed screws. There should be no air in the cooling system when all is well. When you refill a cooling sytem you keep bleeding it until there is no air in there.
Ivan
with respect, that is obvious. If all is well, by definition there is no need to top it up at all. If you need to top it up then you have lost coolant and it has been replaced by air. The volume of the coolant system is fixed. If something has come out of it, something must have gone back in to replace it.
Mass produced cars tend to put the expansion tank at the HIGHEST POINT of the cooling system so air will naturally escape through it as you add more fluid. The Chim expansion tank is lower than the swirl pot.
Editted to add: If you're only adding a little fluid, then most of the air will have collected in the swirl pot so it is fine to top it up there without bleeding from the radiator. If you are adding a large volume of fluid or completely refilling the system, then its a different job. You fill from the swirl pot, use the rad bleed screw and are best off running the engine while filling it up the last bit to expel the last bit of air through the open swirl pot.
>> Edited by ATG on Friday 17th January 11:09
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