Side Impact protection
Discussion
Uncle Fester has just brought up this topic again. Since i have just had a front impact i am very keen on engineering better side impact myself. Thought it best to start this as a separate topic from Krautchimaera's "Chim dead but i'm alive"..
Above picture taken at factory of Tuscan.
Uncle Fester said:
Krautchimaera, hope you make a speedy full recovery.
Do you have any photos of your car after the cars were separated? I am interested to see what has happened to outriggers.
The pictures seem to show that the van climbed over the outriggers. Perhaps the triangular shape actually formed a ramp and the van travelled up the wedge shape of the upper members of the outriggers.
Suggestions of using a roll bar might work, but it also needs a door intrusion bar. TVR fitted such a bar for the Australian market IIRC, but it was more to satisfy the Aussie regulations than a serious attempt at safety.
Without re-enforcing the door pillars to take force transferred from the intrusion bar there is no point in having the intrusion bar.
In the next few years most of us will be having a body off chassis restoration. That would be the ideal time to add the necessary tubes to the chassis in order to allow the force transfer.
If we work out the best way to do this now, it will allow many of us to make the modification when the time comes.
If anyone has their body off at the moment can they have a look at the feasibility of this?
If we developed a set of modifications designed to improve the chassis what would other people want?
I will go for stainless steel outriggers to stop corrosion.
Consider extra outrigger rails to support a door intrusion bar, especially if they provided an overall stiffening of the chassis and improved handling.
Look for ways to make the body removal easier.
Try and make room to relocate the battery. (note the battery exploded in this accident)
So what’s on your wish list?
How would you achieve this?
Since I've just had my dash completely off i dont see why bars similar to the Tuscan cant be added to give side impact from knees forward. A similar bar just behind the seats could do the same for the rear side. This would then give a good basis on which to engineer the door bars?Do you have any photos of your car after the cars were separated? I am interested to see what has happened to outriggers.
The pictures seem to show that the van climbed over the outriggers. Perhaps the triangular shape actually formed a ramp and the van travelled up the wedge shape of the upper members of the outriggers.
Suggestions of using a roll bar might work, but it also needs a door intrusion bar. TVR fitted such a bar for the Australian market IIRC, but it was more to satisfy the Aussie regulations than a serious attempt at safety.
Without re-enforcing the door pillars to take force transferred from the intrusion bar there is no point in having the intrusion bar.
In the next few years most of us will be having a body off chassis restoration. That would be the ideal time to add the necessary tubes to the chassis in order to allow the force transfer.
If we work out the best way to do this now, it will allow many of us to make the modification when the time comes.
If anyone has their body off at the moment can they have a look at the feasibility of this?
If we developed a set of modifications designed to improve the chassis what would other people want?
I will go for stainless steel outriggers to stop corrosion.
Consider extra outrigger rails to support a door intrusion bar, especially if they provided an overall stiffening of the chassis and improved handling.
Look for ways to make the body removal easier.
Try and make room to relocate the battery. (note the battery exploded in this accident)
So what’s on your wish list?
How would you achieve this?
Above picture taken at factory of Tuscan.
Edited by Chimjunkie on Tuesday 19th February 21:59
This is a great idea, it has occurred to me that the chim may have little side impact protection. I don't suppose they ever did any NCAP tests on it?
There seem to be a lot of people who replace their outriggers, so the developing of a form of SIP would be a valuable addition.
Roll on the ideas...
There seem to be a lot of people who replace their outriggers, so the developing of a form of SIP would be a valuable addition.
Roll on the ideas...
JonRB said:
Those drilled alloy extrusions look like Tuscan items.
I think it's a good idea in principle, but I'd be interested in knowing how you're going to package it. Space is tight in the Chimaera.
Just edited my post to add that the picture is a tuscan being assembled at the factory. If it were easy it would be done already! Hope you are enjoying the safety of the Saggie I think it's a good idea in principle, but I'd be interested in knowing how you're going to package it. Space is tight in the Chimaera.
the trouble is you have a fibreglass tub bolted to a very strong chassis...you now need to get the tub very strong and then fix it to the chassis.
I have recently had the body off and took the doors off as well...
Most cars will have 2 or 3 layers of metal in the A pillars and the same at the B pillars. On a TVR the A pillar where the hinges sit is just one thickness of fibreglass and 4 bushes bonded in to take the 4 bolts for the hinges, there is no reinforcing at all...it is the same where the door latches so you dont have anything solid to work from....you could put as much steel work in the doors as you want...it will just transfer to the next week point.
This is one reason i used 3mm wall thickness tube for my outriggers...next on my list is to fabricate a discreet cage using the moounting pints of the body and seatbelt mounts...
I have recently had the body off and took the doors off as well...
Most cars will have 2 or 3 layers of metal in the A pillars and the same at the B pillars. On a TVR the A pillar where the hinges sit is just one thickness of fibreglass and 4 bushes bonded in to take the 4 bolts for the hinges, there is no reinforcing at all...it is the same where the door latches so you dont have anything solid to work from....you could put as much steel work in the doors as you want...it will just transfer to the next week point.
This is one reason i used 3mm wall thickness tube for my outriggers...next on my list is to fabricate a discreet cage using the moounting pints of the body and seatbelt mounts...
andy-w said:
the trouble is you have a fibreglass tub bolted to a very strong chassis...you now need to get the tub very strong and then fix it to the chassis.
I have recently had the body off and took the doors off as well...
Most cars will have 2 or 3 layers of metal in the A pillars and the same at the B pillars. On a TVR the A pillar where the hinges sit is just one thickness of fibreglass and 4 bushes bonded in to take the 4 bolts for the hinges, there is no reinforcing at all...it is the same where the door latches so you dont have anything solid to work from....you could put as much steel work in the doors as you want...it will just transfer to the next week point.
This is one reason i used 3mm wall thickness tube for my outriggers...next on my list is to fabricate a discreet cage using the moounting pints of the body and seatbelt mounts...
Think it would be reasonably simple to run a tube from the tunnel behind the seat along into the B pilar and drop down onto the outrigger with a plate to reinforce this area. This in itself i would say would offer a valuable improvement in rear/side impact. A similar tube from under the dash to the A-pilar would offer good front/side impact. Protecting the aperature of the door would be a very tricky engineering project to make discrete. What height would an impact bar be best set at if set into the door? I have recently had the body off and took the doors off as well...
Most cars will have 2 or 3 layers of metal in the A pillars and the same at the B pillars. On a TVR the A pillar where the hinges sit is just one thickness of fibreglass and 4 bushes bonded in to take the 4 bolts for the hinges, there is no reinforcing at all...it is the same where the door latches so you dont have anything solid to work from....you could put as much steel work in the doors as you want...it will just transfer to the next week point.
This is one reason i used 3mm wall thickness tube for my outriggers...next on my list is to fabricate a discreet cage using the moounting pints of the body and seatbelt mounts...
Next time you are in a traffic jam have a look at the car next to you and see where their bumber is in relation to your door...it is quite scarey!!!
The problem isnt where to put the bars/tube...its how to get them from the inside of the tub secured to the chassis if you see what i mean...you dont want loads of holes everywhere!!!
The problem isnt where to put the bars/tube...its how to get them from the inside of the tub secured to the chassis if you see what i mean...you dont want loads of holes everywhere!!!
The wedge models had side intrusion bars built into the doors as they were intended to be sold in the US. When that market closed for TVR, they dropped this from the Griff and Chim.
I have been considering a different idea recently. If you look at the interior trim of the door on a Griff there is an elbow rest shape half way down the that carries the mirror controls. If you replaced the door card with a completely flat trim would it be possible to fit a diagonal roll bar tube along the door that replicates the shape of that elbow rest and attaches to a roll hoop and the back and a second structure in the footwell.
Make sense? I'll knock up a drawing to explain what I mean and post it.
dumbfunk
I have been considering a different idea recently. If you look at the interior trim of the door on a Griff there is an elbow rest shape half way down the that carries the mirror controls. If you replaced the door card with a completely flat trim would it be possible to fit a diagonal roll bar tube along the door that replicates the shape of that elbow rest and attaches to a roll hoop and the back and a second structure in the footwell.
Make sense? I'll knock up a drawing to explain what I mean and post it.
dumbfunk
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