Wiring Diagram for 1995 Chimaera
Discussion
simpo one said:
paul r said:
I was told by my dealer that there is no such thing as a wiring diagram for a TVR, he said a lot of it was pot luck.
Then he's never seen the Bible has he? Plus, the chap who had my last Griff before me had some trouble with the headlamp wiring and managed to get a chunk of wiring diagram from the factory. I think your dealer is just taking the 'easy/let's charge for poking it about' route.
Opps, sorry - too quick and now edited to include my train of thought...!!!! The early years for all TVR's (Chimaeras & Griffiths, up to circa '96) are almost devoid of wiring diagrams - its a fact !! The "complicated" bit of alarms/central locking etc is almost unique to each car - especially 92/93/94 etc. Headlamp wiring, with due respect, ain't Alarm/central locking wiring !!
Steve, Have you discounted the trigger from the Micro-wave device in transmission tunnel ?? I haven't seen a mention of that ??
Trev McM
>> Edited by k4trv on Sunday 3rd August 21:07
simpo one said:
Headlamp wiring, with due respect, ain't Alarm/central locking wiring !!
Oops, electronics engineer! - I'm bailng out of this!
Nah, don't be too quick to judge/assume- how it works, how the designer thought it should work and how TVR imnplemented it are worlds apart & usually something else. All offers of help, advice are most welcome - usually !!! ;-))
Trev McM
Getting interesting this! When you say relays start chattering, do you mean the relays or do you mean the C/L motors? I assume it’s the motors we are talking about.
So, as I understand it your exact problem is that regardless of whether the car is locked or unlocked at some point after driving around a bit the C/L unlocks itself and continues to keep trying to do so, is that correct?
When you say you now cannot lock the car on alarm, have you physically checked that BOTH doors are unlocked or assumed so? If there was a mechanical fault on one lock (e.g. striker not 100% in, stiff release cable on one door etc.) it could cause this but the other door would still be locked as it should – worth checking.
I cannot think of anything that would trigger an electrical unlock other than the alarm, faulty wiring or the C/L relay. There are not too many things that can cause this. I think at some point you disconnected the trigger wires from the alarm, hopefully you will have done this from the C/L relay and not the alarm unit? I also seem to remember you replaced the C/L relay, is that right? BTW, for the record, did you establish whether it was positive or negative pulse?
Ivan
So, as I understand it your exact problem is that regardless of whether the car is locked or unlocked at some point after driving around a bit the C/L unlocks itself and continues to keep trying to do so, is that correct?
When you say you now cannot lock the car on alarm, have you physically checked that BOTH doors are unlocked or assumed so? If there was a mechanical fault on one lock (e.g. striker not 100% in, stiff release cable on one door etc.) it could cause this but the other door would still be locked as it should – worth checking.
I cannot think of anything that would trigger an electrical unlock other than the alarm, faulty wiring or the C/L relay. There are not too many things that can cause this. I think at some point you disconnected the trigger wires from the alarm, hopefully you will have done this from the C/L relay and not the alarm unit? I also seem to remember you replaced the C/L relay, is that right? BTW, for the record, did you establish whether it was positive or negative pulse?
Ivan
ribol said:
Getting interesting this! When you say relays start chattering, do you mean the relays or do you mean the C/L motors? I assume it’s the motors we are talking about.
MOst common chattering is from the relays, and then occasionally from the motors. As if thee length of connection time varies, quick contacts just lead to chattering of the relay contacts, longer connections activate the motors.
ribol said:
So, as I understand it your exact problem is that regardless of whether the car is locked or unlocked at some point after driving around a bit the C/L unlocks itself and continues to keep trying to do so, is that correct?
YES
ribol said:
When you say you now cannot lock the car on alarm, have you physically checked that BOTH doors are unlocked or assumed so?
I'm getting fitter, walked around the car 30-40 times this weekend checking both doors. Both remain unlocked.
Except at one point over the weekend for 5 mins the car would lock, and not unlock, luckily had left the window down and could reach in to unlock from the inside. Hasn't done this again since.
ribol said:
If there was a mechanical fault on one lock (e.g. striker not 100% in, stiff release cable on one door etc.) it could cause this but the other door would still be locked as it should – worth checking.
Both remain unlocked, but this is a new trail for me as the motors include switches I believe,( one of which connects to the unlock trigger) is it possible that the lock is stiff and the motor can't quite lock the mechanism and there fore it unlocks?, Not sure how this could cause the chattering though?
ribol said:
I cannot think of anything that would trigger an electrical unlock other than the alarm, faulty wiring or the C/L relay. There are not too many things that can cause this. I think at some point you disconnected the trigger wires from the alarm, hopefully you will have done this from the C/L relay and not the alarm unit?
All the unlock trigger wires ( doors, alarm etc) go into one spade connector on the CDL relay. Easiest way to test was remove connection from the alarm and bridge the immobilser circuit so the car would go.
ribol said:
I also seem to remember you replaced the C/L relay, is that right?
YES, same symptoms before and after.
ribol said:
BTW, for the record, did you establish whether it was positive or negative pulse?
The trigger wire connects to earth to activate unlock, so I guess you mean negative pulse.
Thanks for your advice so far,
I have not yet had the pleasure of fiddling with the C/L on my Chimeara, but did spend a lot of time fiddling with system on my old S3. I presume that there are some simmilarities?
I think your problems are not elctrical as such, but are mechanical and might stem from the door actuators, the things that literally move to lock the door.
I would first of all look at adjusting the postion of the actuator/s as I do not think the system is closing properly. If this fails buy one new accuator and replace/swop first drivers side then passenger side.
There is switching occurring inside each accutor and I think this is where the problem lies. The adjustment idea, is to check that the movement is not being restricted which in turn would not allow the system to close. The other idea is simple substitution of a part known to work properly.
I think your problems are not elctrical as such, but are mechanical and might stem from the door actuators, the things that literally move to lock the door.
I would first of all look at adjusting the postion of the actuator/s as I do not think the system is closing properly. If this fails buy one new accuator and replace/swop first drivers side then passenger side.
There is switching occurring inside each accutor and I think this is where the problem lies. The adjustment idea, is to check that the movement is not being restricted which in turn would not allow the system to close. The other idea is simple substitution of a part known to work properly.
If the relays are chattering more often than the motors then that would suggest a relay that is tripping but not strong enough for it to operate the motors or their control relay every time. This could be caused by a faulty relay or wiring to it. I once had a problem similar to yours on a car (non TVR), it happened from time to time and drove me mad. Most alarms units have both a relay to lock and another to unlock inside. The problem I had was one of the relays had a broken spring and when the car went over the right sort of bump the relay contacts made contact and pulsed central locking – try finding that when it happens when it wants to!
I am not sure of what route the alarm pulse wires take on their way to the C/L relay. It is worth remembering that when dealing with a negative pulse you have the added problem that if any part of the unlock pulse wire goes to earth anywhere (even on a plastic car!) it will trip the central locking. By not disconnecting the pulse wire at the C/L relay end you could have left a wire connected earthing away whenever it feels like it creating your problem. It may seem brutal but I would just cut the pulse wire at the C/L relay end and see what happens. If it makes no difference you can put a spade on it, put it back and leave the other wire off and see what happens next. This will point you in the right direction.
If it turns out to be the alarm unit, that can be sorted.
Ivan
I am not sure of what route the alarm pulse wires take on their way to the C/L relay. It is worth remembering that when dealing with a negative pulse you have the added problem that if any part of the unlock pulse wire goes to earth anywhere (even on a plastic car!) it will trip the central locking. By not disconnecting the pulse wire at the C/L relay end you could have left a wire connected earthing away whenever it feels like it creating your problem. It may seem brutal but I would just cut the pulse wire at the C/L relay end and see what happens. If it makes no difference you can put a spade on it, put it back and leave the other wire off and see what happens next. This will point you in the right direction.
If it turns out to be the alarm unit, that can be sorted.
Ivan
ribol said:
If the relays are chattering more often than the motors then that would suggest a relay that is tripping but not strong enough for it to operate the motors or their control relay every time. This could be caused by a faulty relay or wiring to it. I once had a problem similar to yours on a car (non TVR), it happened from time to time and drove me mad. Most alarms units have both a relay to lock and another to unlock inside. The problem I had was one of the relays had a broken spring and when the car went over the right sort of bump the relay contacts made contact and pulsed central locking – try finding that when it happens when it wants to!
I am not sure of what route the alarm pulse wires take on their way to the C/L relay. It is worth remembering that when dealing with a negative pulse you have the added problem that if any part of the unlock pulse wire goes to earth anywhere (even on a plastic car!) it will trip the central locking. By not disconnecting the pulse wire at the C/L relay end you could have left a wire connected earthing away whenever it feels like it creating your problem. It may seem brutal but I would just cut the pulse wire at the C/L relay end and see what happens. If it makes no difference you can put a spade on it, put it back and leave the other wire off and see what happens next. This will point you in the right direction.
If it turns out to be the alarm unit, that can be sorted.
Ivan
I choose to do that as there were 5 wires connected to the one terminal in the multiplug if I remember. They were all on one spade connection hence the difficulty of disconnecting one wire at a time. I'm going to check the door solenoids and if not it will have to be a wire at a time, probably take the opportunity to wire into a block before the relay.
Edited to add - presumably the 5 trigger wires are
1 - alarm
2- left door switch
3- right door switch
does this make sense?
>> Edited by smb on Monday 4th August 19.12 to say it is 3 wire not 5 , sorry.
One interesting point, if i press the anti-hi jack button in the car once quickly it locks, if i keep it pressed down , it then unlocks.
Also this evening the car locked on pressing the alarm button, but did so in a strange manner (ie solenoids pull lock lever down, then up, then down again and stay down. Once locked like this then pressing the button again to unlock doesn't trigger an unlock.
>> Edited by smb on Monday 4th August 19:17
If you have a five wire door locking solenoid like my Griff, you will notice that the "door unlocked" side of the switch is not used, just the "door locked". I think this means that the alarm does the rest. Also the switch is not actaully to chassis(neg), it appears to be "floating", so if you want to tap into the "door unlocked" circuit, as i wanted to do, it will not give you chassis. Of course as always, my car could be completely different!!
david beer said:
If you have a five wire door locking solenoid like my Griff, you will notice that the "door unlocked" side of the switch is not used, just the "door locked". I think this means that the alarm does the rest. Also the switch is not actaully to chassis(neg), it appears to be "floating", so if you want to tap into the "door unlocked" circuit, as i wanted to do, it will not give you chassis. Of course as always, my car could be completely different!!
Is this what is meant as changeover?
david beer said:
If you have a five wire door locking solenoid like my Griff, you will notice that the "door unlocked" side of the switch is not used, just the "door locked". I think this means that the alarm does the rest. Also the switch is not actaully to chassis(neg), it appears to be "floating", so if you want to tap into the "door unlocked" circuit, as i wanted to do, it will not give you chassis. Of course as always, my car could be completely different!!
Don’t know about the Griff but on a Chim the changeover function of the 5 wire motor is not used as changeover, it is used as an on/off switch. This is why you cannot tap into it to find out whether the car is in locked or unlocked mode.
Ivan
smb said:
Edited to add - presumably the 5 trigger wires are
1 - alarm
2- left door switch
3- right door switch
does this make sense?
>> Edited by smb on Monday 4th August 19.12 to say it is 3 wire not 5 , sorry.
Yes, as far as I know there are only the three methods of pulsing the C/L relay. Going back to what I said previously, any of the associated wiring going to earth will cause your problem. That aside, I would cut one wire (starting with alarm wire) at the time from the spade terminal until the problem has gone. I seem to recall you dismissed the door switches a long way back so it cannot be too hard now to find out what is wrong.
Ivan
ribol said:
Edited to add - presumably the 5 trigger wires are
1 - alarm
2- left door switch
3- right door switch
does this make sense?
>> Edited by smb on Monday 4th August 19.12 to say it is 3 wire not 5 , sorry.
Yes, as far as I know there are only the three methods of pulsing the C/L relay. Going back to what I said previously, any of the associated wiring going to earth will cause your problem. That aside, I would cut one wire (starting with alarm wire) at the time from the spade terminal until the problem has gone. I seem to recall you dismissed the door switches a long way back so it cannot be too hard now to find out what is wrong.
Ivan
OK, An update, managed to disconnect all 3 trigger wires,
one from the alarm - works ok, not source of the problem
two- from door switches ( both sides) - causes trigger - but it's not the switches themselves
three - doesn't cause trigger but I have no idea where this goes. anyone any ideas?
For now I'just connected the alarm wire, so car is locked and secure, and unlocks ok.
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