Refurbishing a Veneered Wooden Dash
Discussion
Rich...
Rich...Podie said:
Good point about the ally backing moving more... although if the car the heat generated by the engine / heatsoak may lead to moisture, given that it will heat and then cool...
Blimey this is getting technical! If you take a piece of veneer and warm it up, yes, you will drive out moisture, just as with anything porous. However, in a dashboard, you've got ally at the back and a layer of cellulose laquer on the front which I would imagine is effectively 100% impervious. So I think veneer cracking must be a mixture of the ally contracting and expanding - I'm no metallugist but I think about 1% is the max likely change. The answer is to back it with something that has the same coefficient of expansion (I said this was getting technical didn't I!) - like more wood! 4mm ply perhaps?
But there must be other factors at play, eg how well they glued it down, as my last Griff was 8 years old when I sold it and the veneer wasn't cracked...!
Seems to me the problems are more related to age - at seven years the dash will crack and lift. This seems to be unrelated to usage in my experience - it'll happen about the same time on a car that's done 20k in seven years (eg mine) and one thats done 70k in the same time. Can't see how that relates to either heat soak or UV exposure.
Am I wrong about the seven year thing, or does everyones experience tie with that?
Am I wrong about the seven year thing, or does everyones experience tie with that?
mines a 1996, so roughly 7 years.
cracking dash.
spoke to peninsula about it and they said its possible to get new ones from tvr, but they're "a bit pricey". they recommend london carriage craft, and can arrange to do the dash while a car is with them [peninsula] for servicing. LCC take roughly 7-10 days to turn a dash around aparently. might have mine done at the next service.......
cracking dash.
spoke to peninsula about it and they said its possible to get new ones from tvr, but they're "a bit pricey". they recommend london carriage craft, and can arrange to do the dash while a car is with them [peninsula] for servicing. LCC take roughly 7-10 days to turn a dash around aparently. might have mine done at the next service.......
Hi Guys
It is I, Malcolm Hall Director of London Carriage Craft Ltd.
Let me put the records straight with regards to the problems with these Griffith & Chimeara facia’s cracking and veneer lifting. It was a problem from who ever have done these facia's for TVR in the past. It is true to say that all parts to the fascia have to expand and contract at the same rate otherwise you end up with this typical problem. The metal backing is laser cut mild steel, and the problem started here, where as the surface of the steel was never keyed (scratched) so there will be bad adhesion between steel and veneer. The second problem was that an epoxy adhesive (Araldite) was used to adhere the veneer to the surface to the steel, you may notice when peeling a piece of veneer away from the facia you will notice that the glue is shinny showing hardly any adhesion was made. There are many more modern adhesives with much better adhesion qualities, and we use them. (The art of veneering is knowing what adhesive to use on what sub straights plastics, metals, glass, etc) The other problem is that some of the veneers that were used were not of good quality, this is noticed by looking at the early cars in particular, and notice where the veneer has faded via the UV light from the sun, as this bleaches the veneer, (draws the natural colour from the veneer) and leaving dark patches, where as this could be what we call in the trade as picking out, using pigment to colour out bad parts of the veneer. Pigment (cave men/women used this to paint pictures in the caves) always stays dark and does not bleach, as does the veneer. The other problem lies with the lacquare, a polyester lacquare was used, as does Rolls Royce (we should know we started there in 1973) but the polyester lacquare that is used now, and have used in the last 9 years has a plastiser within its mix, therefore expands and contracts with the heat and cold. Now all parts of the veneered facia move at the same rate therefore no more cracking.
I do hope this helps you guys understand I have put it as plain as I can.
Any questions please do not hesitate to ask.
Regards Malcolm Hall (Director of London Carriage Craft Ltd.
It is I, Malcolm Hall Director of London Carriage Craft Ltd.
Let me put the records straight with regards to the problems with these Griffith & Chimeara facia’s cracking and veneer lifting. It was a problem from who ever have done these facia's for TVR in the past. It is true to say that all parts to the fascia have to expand and contract at the same rate otherwise you end up with this typical problem. The metal backing is laser cut mild steel, and the problem started here, where as the surface of the steel was never keyed (scratched) so there will be bad adhesion between steel and veneer. The second problem was that an epoxy adhesive (Araldite) was used to adhere the veneer to the surface to the steel, you may notice when peeling a piece of veneer away from the facia you will notice that the glue is shinny showing hardly any adhesion was made. There are many more modern adhesives with much better adhesion qualities, and we use them. (The art of veneering is knowing what adhesive to use on what sub straights plastics, metals, glass, etc) The other problem is that some of the veneers that were used were not of good quality, this is noticed by looking at the early cars in particular, and notice where the veneer has faded via the UV light from the sun, as this bleaches the veneer, (draws the natural colour from the veneer) and leaving dark patches, where as this could be what we call in the trade as picking out, using pigment to colour out bad parts of the veneer. Pigment (cave men/women used this to paint pictures in the caves) always stays dark and does not bleach, as does the veneer. The other problem lies with the lacquare, a polyester lacquare was used, as does Rolls Royce (we should know we started there in 1973) but the polyester lacquare that is used now, and have used in the last 9 years has a plastiser within its mix, therefore expands and contracts with the heat and cold. Now all parts of the veneered facia move at the same rate therefore no more cracking.
I do hope this helps you guys understand I have put it as plain as I can.
Any questions please do not hesitate to ask.
Regards Malcolm Hall (Director of London Carriage Craft Ltd.
I'm really pleased to have just read that addition..... I get my car back from Peninsula tonight, and one of the things it's had done is a reveneered dash (both bits, main and the bit around the stereo) by LCC 
I'm really looking forward to getting it back now
I was worried that this 7 year thing would come around again at some point, but I have real confidence that it's gonna look [tony the tiger=on]greeeeeat.
I'm really looking forward to getting it back now I was worried that this 7 year thing would come around again at some point, but I have real confidence that it's gonna look [tony the tiger=on]greeeeeat.
victormeldrew said:
Seems to me the problems are more related to age - at seven years the dash will crack and lift.
You could be right. My Chim was nearly 8.5 years old with 39K when I took possession and unfortunately it already had a crack in the dash. I haven't done anything about it because I don't know how to remove the dash so it can be reveneered
So it looks like the crack will remain as a permanent 'characteristic' in my car.cosmos* said:
Seems to me the problems are more related to age - at seven years the dash will crack and lift.
You could be right. My Chim was nearly 8.5 years old with 39K when I took possession and unfortunately it already had a crack in the dash. I haven't done anything about it because I don't know how to remove the dash so it can be reveneered
Tricky part of the job here:
http://trefor_jones1.users.btopenworld.com/ChimaeraDashRemoval.html
After that you just remove the dials and remember where everything went so you can put it all back again.
trefor said:
Tricky part of the job here:
http://trefor_jones1.users.btopenworld.com/ChimaeraDashRemoval.html
After that you just remove the dials and remember where everything went so you can put it all back again.
And remember once you got the dash out, you can remove the dails and polish the rims. OH
That's the easy part sorted, the hardest part is to get someone else to do it for me!! 
will take a pic later, but have to go out and do some more top down 
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