Budget shock absorbers

[hut49]

I've still got AVOs on the back (yellow springs) (fitted by Racing Green because TVR couldn't supply standard Bilsteins) but they seem to be pretty useless. In fact one of them only lasted 300 miles and had to be replaced. Now both knock like crazy over uneven surfaces especially 0-40mph. More worryingly the damping characterisitcs seem to be totally unsuited to the Chim. There's no or very little damping when the chassis is rising relative to the wheels. I've tried every setting between 0 and 15 clicks and nothing performs even close to that on the original Bils.

I'm sure Nitrons are the way forward but frankly I can't justify this expense. Racing Green has been trying to get Bils since June and TVR still can't supply the standard fit item. I think it's a joke and I'm really very irritated every time I drive the car.

I don't recommend the AVO route - waste of money. Wish I stayed with the slightly knocking Bils - at least they acted like shock absorbers!

[joospeed]

You need to re-read the previous threads about mis-matching springs and dampers, for this is likely what you're experiencing .. could be a faulty damper of course, if so why hasn't your dealer offered to get it replaced or rebuilt?

If you're running the std tvr spring you will encounter problems, this comes from peole not doing any testing. The avo might be advertised as working with std dual rate springs but in my experience it doesn't. You need single rate springs of the correct poundage, use std springs and you'll arrive at a setting that's fine on the extended spring, not enough rebound and too much bump once it's riding onto the shorter uprated section. Once again I say : aftermarket single adjust dampers and std tvr dual rate springs DO NOT WORK.

[hut49]

joospeed said:

You need to re-read the previous threads about mis-matching springs and dampers, for this is likely what you're experiencing .. could be a faulty damper of course, if so why hasn't your dealer offered to get it replaced or rebuilt? If you're running the std tvr spring you will encounter problems, this comes from peole not doing any testing. The avo might be advertised as working with std dual rate springs but in my experience it doesn't. You need single rate springs of the correct poundage, use std springs and you'll arrive at a setting that's fine on the extended spring, not enough rebound and too much bump once it's riding onto the shorter uprated section. Once again I say : aftermarket single adjust dampers and std tvr dual rate springs DO NOT WORK.

The first AVOs were replaced at 400 miles but the replacements expired after 1000. I understnad your point about AVOs and standard TVR springs being a mismatch, but is this an "official" view that I can use to press for full refund? If this wisdom is fact then why wouldn't a specialist TVR dealer know this? How can I tell if the standard springs are on with the AVOs?

[joospeed]

I find it incredible that so many people have trouble with AVOs, I've fitted alot of kits now and only had two dampers faulty, both repaired withing a few working days. Every other kit I've fitted has been plain sailing.
You can tell the TVR springs 'cos they're marked EIBACH and carry a CO part number front and DO part number rear.
The springs thing isn't an official line, it's what I've found over the years, a TVR dealer wouldn't know this if they don't fit many so not exactly their fault, but they'll know for next time I guess.

[Simon H]

I spoke to Steve Reid at Classic TVR and he advised using AVOs with the standard springs. He said the springs should be okay. I actually asked him about changing springs so that I could be provided with a complete assembled unit for fitting myself.

To be honest, there is no way I can justify spending shed loads of money on Nitrons. I have been warned off of using Spax by several people and opinions on AVO's seem to differ enormously depending who you speak to.

The other thing is that from what I read, it sounds as if matched springs plus AVO's equals close to Nitron prices.

This narrows it down to taking a chance with the AVO's and keeping my fingers crossed that they perform okay and don't knock... Nightmare!!

Am I right???

[M@H]

Simon H said:

I have been warned off of using Spax by several people

..do tell more !?

Cheers,
Matt
(with Spax & who knows several others here with Spax too)


>> Edited by M@H on Monday 17th November 15:54

[GreenV8S]

I'm firmly in the Spax haters camp after numerous problems ending with a potentially lethal failure cause by a combination of poor design and poor build quality. Not keen on AVOs either, mainly because the ones that were recommended to me were completely unsuitable for the car, but also because one of them was duff. Maybe it's unfair to tar all AVOs with the same brush because I know others who get on OK with them. Not to say you shouldn't use AVOs or Spax, just that I wouldn't.

Changing springs should not make a significant difference to the price. Maybe £30 a corner at the most, and less if you find a standard spring to suit.

[M@H]

Hi Pete..

..is your hatred from road use or Track use..? as most of us mere mortals probably don't give them as much of a hard time as you

Edited to add.. which ones did you use..? I have the RSX Adjustable Coilovers and they seem very good to my limited experience..
Cheers,
Matt.


>> Edited by M@H on Monday 17th November 16:40

[Simon H]

Hi again chaps

1. From what I have been told about Spax units, they are rated at the bottom of all available choices in terms of performance as the damping characteristics (due to the valve shape) is very simple. Also, apparently Spax units have poor chrome plating on the rod which gets stone chipped very easily and then rips the seals. Lastly, they are not re-buildable like the AVOs... This could all be BS but that's what I've been told.

2. With regard to new plane springs for £30 a pop this sound tree-men-dose, where do I look?... from the previous responses, it looks as if the price was £250 just for the rears?

[thegamekeeper]

Simom I can supply you with the springs as well as the dampers but I am still not convinced you need them.Most people are happy with the original springs on new dampers as long as they are not broken or sagging. The mismatch between spring and damper depends largely on how you set the dampers.Its a bit horses for courses, what suits one person may be totally unacceptable for another, otherwise we would all drive black cars

[GreenV8S]

M@H said:

is your hatred from road use or Track use..?

Combination. I initially replaced the original Konis with a set of Gas Spax, supplied by a friendly Spax reseller who also sprinted a V8S. They weren't too bad but from time to time I found the car would get all out of shape over relatively minor undulations, must be my driving I hear you say and perhaps you're right. I spent a long time playing with the damper settings, took them off and bled them several times (Spax say you don't need to since the gas is sealed, but my friend advised me it was important to do this), just couldn't get to the bottom of the problem. One day it happened while I was at a sprint and my friend was watching. The problem was so pronounced that time that he could see the problem even from a couple of hundred yards away, the car was bouncing all over the place for no obvious reason. We had a good look at the car when I got off the track, bouncing it up and down there was no damping at all. Then suddenly 'click' both fronts started working again and a few minutes later 'click' one of the rears was OK too. "Well they're perfectly OK on mine" says my friend, "yours must have come from a duff batch". We bounced his car about a bit to compare the dampers, and suddenly one corner went soft, the damper had stopped working. Then it returned to normal again. Our theory was that some valve or gismo inside the damper wasn't always seating properly and the dampers were randomly not working. If it came back to life again fairly quickly you might not notice it on the road unless it happened to several dampers at once. I'm sure this was why mine felt fairly chaotic from time to time in normal driving.

Spax were kind enough to replace the whole set free of charge, however this didn't cure the problem. Eventually they replaced them with the next model up, which had nice adjustable spring seats. That seemed to cure the damping problem, but one of these new dampers folded in half with very dramatic consequences to the suspension and steering. Luckily I was able to stop before I ran out of road. On inspection of the remains I found the damper rod had been screwed into the top mount by less than a diameter (any engineers out there like to comment?) and the lock nut had been designed out; it had simply come unscrewed allowing the spring and damper to part company from the chassis. The joint had signs of thread lock on the outside, but this hadn't penetrated the thread - my guess is it had been applied after the joint was assembled, which is effing useless and quite alarming because it looks fine from the outside.

Maybe I just got a bad batch, maybe they fixed the design or manufacturing fault with the valves, maybe they sacked their old design team that designed an unsafe top mount, got new assembly staff in who know how to apply thread lock and now have a QA process that ensures this sort of problem will never happen again. If they have done all these things, they're probably perfectly OK now. I'll never know, because I will never ever ever put another Spax damper on my car.

Sorry, this didn't start off as a rant but it sort of turned into one, even now nearly a decade later I'm furious at the incompetance that could easily have killed me.

[thegamekeeper]

but apart from that

[GreenV8S]

Simon H said:

2. With regard to new plane springs for £30 a pop this sound tree-men-dose, where do I look?... from the previous responses, it looks as if the price was £250 just for the rears?

There are lots of places that will sell you coil springs. You can get an idea of prices from Rally Design if you go to www.raldes.co.uk and look in their springs section. Prices range from about a tenner up to twenty quid or so for standard single rate springs. If you buy direct you do need to know what size and rate you need. If you buy through a TVR dealer/specialist they'll take care of the spec but of course they add their margin on to the price. Multiply by four the price does add up but still small compared to the cost of the dampers. Springs are cheap.

[M@H]

Thanks for the thoughts Pete.. as it was a decade ago, I'm going to risk the fact that they must have improved or they would have gone out of business... I still will keep an eye them though.

Cheers
Matt.

[GreenV8S]

M@H said:

or they would have gone out of business...

I seem to remember they did, actually!

[jonnyb]

Just fitted some GAZ adjustable shocks and uprated springs to my chim. Its not back on its boots yet so i'll let you know how I get on. If your interested the dampers are £95 each and the springs are £32 a pair. Call David on 01709 703992. Forget it if your in a rush though!!

[rude girl]

GreenV8S said:

If you buy through a TVR dealer/specialist they'll take care of the spec but of course they add their margin on to the price. Multiply by four the price does add up but still small compared to the cost of the dampers. Springs are cheap.

But not everyone has the knowledge you do Pete. Have a trawl for how many times you see threads on here that say 'where can I find them a bit cheaper', followed by another one that says 'how do you fit them' (esp springs) and then another one that says 'how do you set them up'.

Personally I don't mess with stuff I don't understand. I'd rather pay the extra to a dealer or specialist (or plumber/electrician at home for that matter) and know that it's right, and that I have someone to go back to for help if it all goes pear shaped. Horses for courses though, there's a lot of clever people out there but I can't see how you can spec and buy something if you haven't defined what you want it to do for you first (that's the Engineer in me coming out!!).

Saw you in Daventry on Saturday night btw - tried to do loads of arm flapping and attract your attention but I think we were too far from the road for you to see us.

[hut49]

AVOs on rear have been replaced today with TVR-supplied Bilstein Mk4 units with new top and bottom bushes.

The difference is dramatic and although I've only driven it around 50 miles it's like driving a different car. No more knocking and squeaking, no more wild shaking over general uneven surfaces. I even found myself steering into sunken manhole covers and patched up surfaces just to feel how smooth good shock absorbers can make the ride over what the local authorities call roads.

I'll report again after I've a few hundred miles but in the meantime these new Bilsteins get the

[GreenV8S]

hut49 said:

The difference is dramatic

That just reinforces my prejudice against AVOs! More important, that smiley makes me smile every time!

[joospeed]

hut49 said:

AVOs on rear have been replaced today with TVR-supplied Bilstein Mk4 units with new top and bottom bushes. The difference is dramatic and although I've only driven it around 50 miles it's like driving a different car. No more knocking and squeaking, no more wild shaking over general uneven surfaces. I even found myself steering into sunken manhole covers and patched up surfaces just to feel how smooth good shock absorbers can make the ride over what the local authorities call roads. I'll report again after I've a few hundred miles but in the meantime these new Bilsteins get the

TVR just get the ride comfort by having MASSIVE rubber bushes on the damper end eyes ...