Which Fire Extinguisher

[biggiles]

Having actually put out an engine fire in a Chimaera, I can say that a 4kg powder extinguisher is more than enough.

My extinguisher was in the garage and fortunately took only a few seconds to grab it. I don't really think that in the heat of the moment I want to be fumbling on the parcel shelf or in the boot.

[hman]

GC8 said:

You have to work with whats available and you have to understand the purpose of each type of extinguisher. BCF is great, but you cant buy it and industrial fire suppression kit isnt easily available or practical. That leaves (for the most part) domestic and motorsport extinguishers.

I've been in the fire suppression industry for 8 years and in the fire protetcion industry for 17 years.

I truly understand what the best kit is, I test it!.

In our experience the best kit is a plumbed in system like the fogmaker watermist system system or the firetrace (FE13/CO2/powder etc) system for vehicle fires. Both systems use the firetrace burn through tube to either activate the system or discharge the suppression agent onto the fire.

Really anything handheld is a comprimise - primarily as you may be unconcious in the burning vehicle so unable to use a hand held, the plumbed in system will work automatically.

We fit a lot of fogmaker systems to a lot of commercial equipment and vehicles its very very good.

[GC8]

People can only work with what they can reasonably find. A plumbed in Halon system will snuff out virtually everything, but you struggle to buy the medium even if you have an approved application. That means that virtually everyone will be looking at either motorsport or domestic extinguishers (because specialised commercial fire suppression systems arent commonly available, if theyd be suitable for the application). That brings us full-circle, because the purpose of an plumbed-in motorsport extinguisher is to save the driver: saving the car would be a bonus.

With regards to the comment about location: if its in your garage then it wont help you when youre away from home. Better have to spend twenty seconds opening the boot and putting on gloves, than getting out and spending twenty minutes watching your car burn. If you can fit the extinguishers securely/safely (accident safe) within the cabin then do so, although I dont see a real advantage in that and Id sooner it was in the boot, myself.

[haircutmike]

hman said:

roysum said:

hman said:

I have some experience with these types of systems.

Firstly powder handhelds are next to useless and so are really there as a feel good factor to keep in your car, believe me you put yourself at more risk by not knowing how to use one of these than calling the fire services and letting them sort it out.

Halon (green colour) extinguishers work, but are illegal - although I know what I'll be using in the event of a fire in my car.

The best bet is a plumbed in system.

Firetrace (.co.uk) make one which carries the extinguishant ( gas , powder etc) within the burn-through piping which takes the extinguishant to the hottest part of the fire - these work well- I had one fitted to my quattro ring car and they are also fitted to paris dakar cars too)

Fogmaker (.com) make a fog system which works very well, is easily rechargeable through recharging with pressurised water, and uses firetrace burn through tube to activate the system which then expels ectinguishant through the strategically located nozzles within the engine bay.

The fogmaker systems are fitted to the eurotunnel maintenance vehicles and also to the bendy buses (which until they fitted the fogmaker systems kept catching fire and burning out, it was traced to a fractured diesel pipe which was only un covered after they fitted the fogmaker systems which extinguished the fire and allowed them to discover the cause). These systems have slightly larger cylinders than standard though.


Gas systems (co2, novec etc) work in the short term but dont reduce the latent heat in the metal surfaces to prevent re-ignition (in some cases) and powder is messy as hell and not very effective.

For me its fog (which works very well on flammable liquid fires cotrary to what you might think) or halon.

I regularly fire test on these risks for my line of work.

oops !!

discard container away from the scene of the crime after use

Still legal in some very specific aplications but cars isnt one of them..

Why are they illegal?

[GC8]

The Montreal Protocol, possibly based on bad science. Halon was brilliant for snuffing out fires, but allegedly also excellent and depleting ozone in the upper atmosphere. Theres no a ban on production and use. The very limited applications are using recycled halon.

[haircutmike]

Ah.

[hman]

for clarity, neither fogmaker nor firetrace use halon.

They are both commercially available systems.

Fogmaker is approved by FIA (97-001), EU directive 94/25/EG, SBF128, SBF 127, Buro Veritas http://www.fogmaker.com/1.0.2.0/67/3/

Also

http://www.firetrace.co.uk/applications.html

Firetrace took off commercially when it was installed on some paris dakar cars, it was used in anger and worked and therefore gained a lot of publicity- I have one in my car - very cheap too!

[GC8]

Using C02 or a halon substitute? What sort of price?. Unfortunately Novec and similar replacements are prohibitively expensive, in my experience.

[leaderb]

Hi,

Forgive my ignorance, but is the Firetrace system self installable, and what sort of price are we talking?
Cheers in advance, Ian

[LordB]

What are the handheld systems that the marshals have in F1 using - they seem pretty effective, if not a little on the large side for a car.

[GC8]

I can only comment on MSA-licensed circuit marshals. Usually theyll be using ABC powder extinguishers. The MSA only approve AFFF foam or Halon replacement for in-car extinguishers though.

[hman]

leaderb said:

Hi,

Forgive my ignorance, but is the Firetrace system self installable, and what sort of price are we talking?
Cheers in advance, Ian

Yes, very easily, basically clip a flexible plastic tube around the engine bay and mount a bottle of extinguishant in the car/ engine bay.

I am waiting for prices, hopefully tomorrow I can let you know.

[mph1977]

GC8 said:

I can only comment on MSA-licensed circuit marshals. Usually theyll be using ABC powder extinguishers. The MSA only approve AFFF foam or Halon replacement for in-car extinguishers though.

when i last did my ACU marshal ticket the practical firefighting was with ABC powder

and the last fire i put out at a motorsport event (banger racing) was with dry limestoney earth after some numpty managed to put a trail of burning petrol down the 'pit lane'

my own car (not a TVR) carries a naughty green extinguisher and when i get round to it a powder one

Edited by mph1977 on Monday 5th July 01:15

[SteveGRF]

I am no professional fire fighter but I have helped put out a car engine fire once with a small powder extinquisher I had in my car, these extinquishers might be small but if you get it to the fire quickly enough you can hopefully prevent major damage or worst. On the paticular occassion I passed a chap frantically trying to put out engine bay flames of his Mustang (with a branch of hedge in true Basil Forty style), I reversed & handed him my extinquisher which he used to quickly put it out.

On the flip side & many years ago I was unlucky enough to have to just stand & watch my very first cars engine burn its self out - whilst wishing I had an extinquisher to hand

I mount a small powder type extinquisher to the floor just infront of the drivers seat / under my knees & hidden from direct view by the seat bolster, luckily I've never had to use it to date & hope I never have to. Better to have something rather than nothing just in case & at least you can say you had a go & all that.

[hman]

so long as its securely fixed in, a fire extinguisher under the brake pedal is a fairly scary experience.

[GC8]

mph1977 said:

GC8 said:

I can only comment on MSA-licensed circuit marshals. Usually theyll be using ABC powder extinguishers. The MSA only approve AFFF foam or Halon replacement for in-car extinguishers though.

when i last did my ACU marshal ticket the practical firefighting was with ABC powder

and the last fire i put out at a motorsport event (banger racing) was with dry limestoney earth after some numpty managed to put a trail of burning petrol down the 'pit lane'

my own car (not a TVR) carries a naughty green extinguisher and when i get round to it a powder one

Yes - powder for marshalls at car races too, but in-car extinguishers are restricted to approved AFFF or Halon substitute. The FIA does approve powder, so maybe you can use it in-car on International events, but you certainly cant use it for National events.

The Halon is certainly best, but discharging one is a serious offence now (as is owning one, I believe!).

[GC8]

For a car fire, or rather to fight a car fire, Id opt for a 4kg ABC powder extinguisher with an elongated hose (so that you can keep the extinguisher body upright and direct the nozzle at the fire from under the car).

[hman]

GC8 said:

mph1977 said:

GC8 said:

I can only comment on MSA-licensed circuit marshals. Usually theyll be using ABC powder extinguishers. The MSA only approve AFFF foam or Halon replacement for in-car extinguishers though.

when i last did my ACU marshal ticket the practical firefighting was with ABC powder

and the last fire i put out at a motorsport event (banger racing) was with dry limestoney earth after some numpty managed to put a trail of burning petrol down the 'pit lane'

my own car (not a TVR) carries a naughty green extinguisher and when i get round to it a powder one

Yes - powder for marshalls at car races too, but in-car extinguishers are restricted to approved AFFF or Halon substitute. The FIA does approve powder, so maybe you can use it in-car on International events, but you certainly cant use it for National events.

The Halon is certainly best, but discharging one is a serious offence now (as is owning one, I believe!).

Mitigating cirumstances for discharging a small handheld in this situation would mean a telling off at best.

[davidindevon]

I'm trying to live and learn from others if possible.
I've read a number of posts on this and conclude that an AFFF (and glove) within reach is on the list - company close to me can provide me with that.

Also the Fogmaker with trace lines. I looked on their website and was quite impressed. However, can anyone advise me of the best/cost effective supplier within the UK please? Thanks.