|
chris watton
Original Poster
12,451 posts
130 months
|
MGJohn said: Hmmmmmm ... same old story. With my first MGB back in the 1960s, a similar experience made me understand this maxim for the rest of my days :~
BEWARE PROFESSIONALS ~ in all walks of life!
All my cars since have been serviced by me from day one including new ones. I have never had an unreliable car .... coincidence or just good luck ... yeah right!
My son and I have replaced the cylinder head gaskets on a dozen friends' and relatives' Rover and MG cars over recent years. NONE required a head skim although my son did one on his VVC engined Metro as it seemed a good idea at the time. I did not think it needed doing.
I even replaced the CHG with an MLS one on my MG ZS 120 bought new in 2003 when it started to lose coolant a couple of years ago. It did NOT need doing as I removed a perfectly sound gasket. MLS is a useful upgrade anyway. Soon after, the Water Pump completely expired. It was the early stages of the pump wearing which was responsible for the little but steady coolant loss. NOT the "they all do that" gasket!
Too many pro-outfits always charge for a head skim when it does NOT need doing. Lazy way of cleaning the head and the customer pays anyway ...
.. I know - lesson learnt. I will not take the car anywhere else but Tech-Speed. Some 'MGr's moan about the hourly rate, but from what I have witnessed, they always go the extra mile. The last time, when I had new dampers and poly bushes fitted, they noticed a problem with the steering, which pulled to the left. This was about 5 in the evening. They sa=tayed until 7 to fix it (wasn't their problem, but they fixed it anyway), and I wasn't charged any more for it. So, although their hourly rate may be higher than a standard garage (and I'm not even sure if that's true), but I know that they know what they're doing and will get it right the first time - thus saving money in the long term (in my case,the short term - over £600 for the original HG and skimming alone from the first monkey boy outfit) I may now even invest in a new VVC cylinder head, just in case - I know the heads cannot have too many skims before going too far.
|
|
|
chris watton
Original Poster
12,451 posts
130 months
|
OK, got it back. Much, much better in every discernible way. Steering better, low down torque very noticeable, engine revs more freely than ever (even from new) It now feels and drives like the Trophy 160 should, and then some. As always with Tech-Speed, they went the extra mile – any surface rust on the sub frame was dealt with (not included in price!), and I bought a full set of stainless steel jubilee clips, in case they wanted to change any when fitting new pipes. Not only did they change them with the new pipes, but they changed ALL the clips with the new ones! I cannot recommend them enough. OK, so that’s all the internals done. What have we had done so far this year: HG changed New SS under floor pipes New BAS hood and glass heated rear screen and new frame from BAS and fitted by BAS (Nice people) New head unit with DAB and BlueTooth New Wheel bearings all round (Tech-Speed) Front and back fully poly-bushed (Tech-Speed) New Bilstein dampers (Tech-Speed) New brake pads and disks all round 4 new tyres (two on the front still to be fitted) 4 new Trophy wheels and centre caps (to be fitted this weekend) All the following has just been fitted by Tech-Speed: ITG Maxogen induction system Silicon breather hoses AP Racing clutch Ultra lightweight flywheel New bellcrank assembly New clutch arm with bleed nipple New Quaife Diff (along with new gearbox seals) New accelerator cable (Now much better!) New TF radiator New TF steering rack New SS pipes for engine New SS braided brake hose pipes New gear change mechanism New Piper exhaust cam New janspeed 4-2-1 manifold New Janspeed sports cat (and MIL eliminator) Cylinder head re-skimmed and new head gasket (god dammit!) New gaskets and new bolts everywhere! Piper cam belts New water pump New alternator (along with belt and all new ancillaries that go with it) New starter motor New lambda sensor New spark plugs New Magnecor HT leads New coil pack New fuel filter New fluids throughout And finally, a Z&F tuning session I think that’s it! Next stage can wait a few months now, where the outside of the car will be given a complete makeover. But for now, we’re just going to enjoy the car over the Summer. We have brand new carpets and mats waiting to be fitted, too - but again, they can wait a couple of months until we've moved house.   Old parts that were replaced: 
|
|
|
chris watton
Original Poster
12,451 posts
130 months
|
Just got back from a rolling road, and this is the result (God knows how bad it was before..) 
|
|
|
Mr2Mike
9,622 posts
125 months
|
Shame you didn't have a "before" run on the rollers, the absolute numbers are only a very rough guide. More importantly how does it feel on the road now?
|
|
|
Butter Face
5,952 posts
30 months
|
Crikey, you must have spent a fortune! Good work though.
|
Advertisement
|
|
|
chris watton
Original Poster
12,451 posts
130 months
|
Butter Face said: Crikey, you must have spent a fortune! Good work though. This year, to get it this mechanically sound (including suspension, poly bushes, cooling system - even new alternator and starter motor), it has cost around £9-10k. (This does include all labour charges, a brand new hood and rear heated glass window and frame, plus new tyres and brand new wheels - even a brand new quicker steering rack) I don't mind so much, as it has been much fun from getting it from a car on the brink to a very well sorted modestly powered sports car. As a 'complete package', it is nigh on perfect (but I wouldn't expect anything less, considering the money spent). I am well aware that the money spent could have bought us something better - but my wife wanted to keep it (her car), and as I said, I loved picking and chosing all the new bits to put in/on it. Following yesterday's downpour, I think the best upgrade is the Quaife diff - it was so much fun going round the roundabouts in the wet, and the rear not breaking free! Equal to electronic traction control!
|
|
|
Butter Face
5,952 posts
30 months
|
I was about to say, have you thought about Traction Control? My wifes MGF was always a bit tail happy and that was just the 115bhp version.
I've said to her she can have another one day and it would be a Trophy for sure!
|
|
|
chris watton
Original Poster
12,451 posts
130 months
|
Butter Face said: I was about to say, have you thought about Traction Control? My wifes MGF was always a bit tail happy and that was just the 115bhp version.
I've said to her she can have another one day and it would be a Trophy for sure! The Trophy 160 is a completely different animal to the base model MGF's (and TF's, for that matter) - and it is a lot more planted and handles better than all other standard MGF's/TF's in standard form. I know this because I have had (from new) a 2000 MY MGF 1.8i, which wasn't fast and the the back came out at the slightest hint of rain. I part exchanged that for a Trophy 160, and the difference was like night and day. I then part exchanged the Trophy 160 for a new TF 160 (even had the lowered suspension option), and I hated it, that lasted 6 months before part exchanging it (after having a test drive in a TVR...). With the TF 160, even with the 'uprated' suspension, understeer was back (something I never had with the Trophy 160), and it seemed slightly slower, even though they have the same engines (almost). I loved the Trophy 160 so much, that I then bought another for my wife, and it's that car that we still have to this day.
|
|
|
T66ORA
2,865 posts
127 months
|
Hi Chris Thanks for sharing that, i don`t want to come across as a bit of a cock, but if i could make a couple of obversations from your results? The power output for your spec is a lot less than expected imo.Why? could be the rollers? (a pity you never had the before mods fig) or most probabily the Map on the car, as i understand it Z an F, stick a generic map on MEMS 3 cars, you need some one to RR TUNE the car with a lap top attached to adjust the fuel and air flow/mixtures, i live Remap specific to your car, with your spec another 10 brake is possible surely? Your rev limiter appears to be set to low,looking at your graph the operator might have been very quick in lifting off, but as the rev counters on F/TFs underead he would have hit the limiter accidently any way? Most cars that have had live remaps have found this, and adjusted to the factory approved 7200RPM, unfortunatly questioning the ZF remap? More alarming though, imo, is loss from Fly to Wheel power (also known as transmission loss) a excessive 56 bhp this is more than 33%, if you do some research, 20 to 25% is the norm for this sort of power train.Without digging out Dannys graphs i am sure his wheel power was 132BHP from 175 (25%) Rollers(wheels spinning) or something mechanical? I`m not sure? Its a bit quiet for MG stuff here, i would try posting over on .ORG,ive not been over there for ages,Dannys TF is still SORN, or ask Z an F for advice/explanation. Dannys car was remapped in Yeovil, and took most of the day to get the best results, and only cost £250, the lad Matt certainly new his stuff, and spent hours tweeking things on his laptop before testing with a RR run. The most important thing though mate is that you are happy with the way the car drives, power figs make good pub talk, but its how it goes on the road is more relevant. 
|
|
|
chris watton
Original Poster
12,451 posts
130 months
|
T66ORA said: Hi Chris Thanks for sharing that, i don`t want to come across as a bit of a cock, but if i could make a couple of obversations from your results? The power output for your spec is a lot less than expected imo.Why? could be the rollers? (a pity you never had the before mods fig) or most probabily the Map on the car, as i understand it Z an F, stick a generic map on MEMS 3 cars, you need some one to RR TUNE the car with a lap top attached to adjust the fuel and air flow/mixtures, i live Remap specific to your car, with your spec another 10 brake is possible surely? Your rev limiter appears to be set to low,looking at your graph the operator might have been very quick in lifting off, but as the rev counters on F/TFs underead he would have hit the limiter accidently any way? Most cars that have had live remaps have found this, and adjusted to the factory approved 7200RPM, unfortunatly questioning the ZF remap? More alarming though, imo, is loss from Fly to Wheel power (also known as transmission loss) a excessive 56 bhp this is more than 33%, if you do some research, 20 to 25% is the norm for this sort of power train.Without digging out Dannys graphs i am sure his wheel power was 132BHP from 175 (25%) Rollers(wheels spinning) or something mechanical? I`m not sure? Its a bit quiet for MG stuff here, i would try posting over on .ORG,ive not been over there for ages,Dannys TF is still SORN, or ask Z an F for advice/explanation. Dannys car was remapped in Yeovil, and took most of the day to get the best results, and only cost £250, the lad Matt certainly new his stuff, and spent hours tweeking things on his laptop before testing with a RR run. The most important thing though mate is that you are happy with the way the car drives, power figs make good pub talk, but its how it goes on the road is more relevant. You are absolutely correct, which is why I am booking the car for a retune (already had the Z&F remap), as I was expecting at least 175bhp. Also, it seems the RR guy came off the throttle way too early, as the car revs to about 7,240. With hindsight, I should have had the RR and retuning session all in one go - but I have never done this sort of thing before, and had assumed that the Z&F remap would suffice. ETA - I had an ultra-lightweight flywheel added (3.5kg) - I wonder if that has anything to do with the odd result...
|
|
|
MGJohn
6,933 posts
53 months
|
chris watton said: Butter Face said: I was about to say, have you thought about Traction Control? My wifes MGF was always a bit tail happy and that was just the 115bhp version.
I've said to her she can have another one day and it would be a Trophy for sure! The Trophy 160 is a completely different animal to the base model MGF's (and TF's, for that matter) - and it is a lot more planted and handles better than all other standard MGF's/TF's in standard form. I know this because I have had (from new) a 2000 MY MGF 1.8i, which wasn't fast and the the back came out at the slightest hint of rain. I part exchanged that for a Trophy 160, and the difference was like night and day. I then part exchanged the Trophy 160 for a new TF 160 (even had the lowered suspension option), and I hated it, that lasted 6 months before part exchanging it (after having a test drive in a TVR...). With the TF 160, even with the 'uprated' suspension, understeer was back (something I never had with the Trophy 160), and it seemed slightly slower, even though they have the same engines (almost). I loved the Trophy 160 so much, that I then bought another for my wife, and it's that car that we still have to this day. Very interesting observations in your huge differences observations in what would appear superficially to be the same car. Some say tyres are critical on any MGF/TF and no doubt they play a part but, your remarks are surprising.
|
|
|
chris watton
Original Poster
12,451 posts
130 months
|
MGJohn said: Very interesting observations in your huge differences observations in what would appear superficially to be the same car. Some say tyres are critical on any MGF/TF and no doubt they play a part but, your remarks are surprising. No-one was more surprised (and disappointed) than me, regarding the TF160. I must stress that I do use these cars as intended, and work them hard - bouncing off the rev limiter happens often (where and when it is 100% safe to do so - and usually under the speed limit anyway), but then I ensure that they are always very well looked after and go far beyond what is required to keep them that way. I like them when driving at the limit (it is what they are designed for, AFAIAC) and the Trophy 160 definitely had the edge over the other 'F's' - the TF went wider around my favourite corners than the Trophy. Hell, I even read a lot of complaints stating that the TF 160 was too harsh a ride, when I thought it was still too soft - honestly, how old are some of these people who complain, and why did they chose to buy a sports car if all they intend to do is 'pootle' about? Both the Trophy 160 and TF 160 had the same wheel sizes and same tyres - except the Trophy had non ABS brakes and the TF had ABS.
|
|
|
MGJohn
6,933 posts
53 months
|
Unlike the majority of folks on here it would seem, not the first time I'm out of step with the rest of the flock...  .. I really like the K-Series and use it well in my MGs as it seems to thrive on higher revs. I particularly like driving my son's Lotus Elise S2 with the 1.8 K rasping away not far behind you when using that little car's impressive performance. I had not realised the ABS situation with some of the MGF/TFs. Thanks for pointing this out. Sharp handling is always high up on my list of what a car must have and as ordinary production cars go, the MG ZS suits me perfectly for a daily driver. We have two low mileage examples in the family and one which we've had from new in 2003 has the 17" Alloy wheels with the lower profile tyres whilst the other, a 54-plate car has the 16" Hairpin Alloys. With so many speed humps about in my part of Gloucester it sometimes makes driving the ZS with the 17" wheels and lower profile tyres and stiffer suspension a bit of a chore. Less so the one with the 16" Wheels ... maybe I am getting old .. .
|
|
|
Incony
1 posts
12 months
|
Woo. Chris, i envy you the ability to spend that much money on something you love... ) and John, yes i share the concept that tyre choice is very important to ones own choice of handling expectation. And that really is what its all about , i think.. not the most expensive or the consensus of what is best, but what fits you, the driver. I have a Freestyle, that performs just as i want it to, when i want it to.. its nearly dead standard, its hydrogas suspension is, for me just great.. and that is odd to say, perhaps, because i have a Trophy 160 too.. and to add more oddness, i use 215/40/16 BF Goodrich Profiler Tyres..on all 4 wheels at the same pressure 35 PSI... In 13000 miles of use in 13 months ( the Freestyle is my daily traveller, doing 90 miles a day ) - i cant fault those tyres, its like they are an extension of me... i sense them like i sense my fingers.. If i could spend 10 grand on either my Freestyle, or My Trophy , what would i spend it on? a different engine, first i think.. the MG variants of higher horsepower will just about go in... and like Chris, the LSD would certainly be great to have.. 
|
|
|
chris watton
Original Poster
12,451 posts
130 months
|
Well, I decided to finally put on my four new wheels two weeks ago, as well as installing brand new carpets, a new engine cover, insulation and new hood well carpet - along with new leather with red stitching for the cubby box/armrest lid and centre tunnel, as well as some nice brushed aluminium bits for the dash and console (nothing too OTT, want to keep the Trophy looking quite original, so enhancements rather than a complete change), a coolant sensor alarm and the whole car cleaned, polished and waxoiled to within an inch of it's life... Wheels turned out to be a nightmare - out of the four new ones I bought from B&G, only one fitted! The teo rears had the wrong PCD and wouldn't fit at all, and one of the fronts fitted the four hub bolts, but the inner hub on the wheel was not deep enough - didn't realise this until I scraped the freshly painted AP callipers! So, it was on jacks for almost two weeks - I eventually got B&G to take the three wrong wheels back (why were they wrong, these wheels were made specifically for the Trophy 160!), and sent aother new front wheel. I then had the old rear wheels refurbished properly (shot blasted, powder coated, sprayed and then laquered - and they look as good as the new front wheels - should have done this to begin with!  Even the wheel arches were cleaned..   Rear wheel on right has incorrect hole spacing!  While I was waiting for the wheels to be sorted, I went to town on the car, took it apart and cleaned everything, if it looked nasty, I simply replaced bits as I went...        Fitting low coolant alarm..  Insides stripped out, ready for new underlay and carpets..  And new carpets fitted, as well as new leather armrest and centre tunnel (which the wife put on)     After not moving for two weeks, and me leaving interior lights on, the battery was dead yesterday, so I charged it overnight, and all seems to work (I added the dash aluminium rings yesterday, they look quite nice without being too 'bling', I think..  And finally, eventually, this morning, new wheels added! (rears are refurbed, to TBH, I can't tell the difference as they look as good as new)    Refurb:  New:  I bought a spare coolant cap, which I keep in the back now, just in case...  I will take the car to Dave Andrews early next year for a port and polish of the head - then hopefully, this little car should be perfect! Must be mad!
|
|
|
NotDave
20,951 posts
27 months
|
So jealous. Would love to adopt this approach with either a mint ZR 160 or a ZS v6
|
|
