MG trackday Z-car dilemma

MG trackday Z-car dilemma

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Wicker Man

Original Poster:

782 posts

242 months

Monday 16th January 2012
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I bought an MG ZS 180 for use as a trackday car last year, which was fun. I was planning to loose some weight from the still standard cars 1285Kg over the winter but haven't yet had the heart to rip out the perfectly good interior.

Plus a ZR 160 is only 1145Kg to start with, so could probably be under ton without too much effort, so I've just bought this:



which has an even better interior and a perfectly good VVC engine. But I really fancy a (heavy) tomcat conversion. So what's it to be?

ZS 180 Standard/stripped out
ZR 160 standard/stripped out
ZR 200bhp tomcat standard/lightened?

Target date is Marham at the end of April and it's freezing in the garage!

YesItsARover

2,721 posts

164 months

Monday 16th January 2012
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How do you find the handling compares between the two?

Wicker Man

Original Poster:

782 posts

242 months

Monday 16th January 2012
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They both handle very well but the ZR is more chuckable, probably due to the lighter weight.

Roman

2,031 posts

218 months

Tuesday 17th January 2012
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ZRs with T16 turbo engine conversions have always been popular with the Rovertech guys:
http://www.rovertech.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=36&...

Wicker Man

Original Poster:

782 posts

242 months

Sunday 22nd January 2012
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Thanks Roman. There's some useful stuff here too:
http://forums.mg-rover.org/showthread.php?t=378420

I'm a big fan of the Rover Turbo and dropping a T16 in a ZR looks pretty straight forward. So today I bought this kit of parts:





The body work is past its best but the engine runs sweetly. And the 16" alloys might be a useful alternative to the 17s on the ZR 160.

Next, I just need to make some space in the garage!


YesItsARover

2,721 posts

164 months

Monday 30th January 2012
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Cracking collection!

MGJohn

10,203 posts

182 months

Tuesday 31st January 2012
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Been a fan of both the O and T series MG and Rover turbocharged engines since the O Series Turbo first appeared back around 1985. The T is basically an O with Double Overhead Camshafts.

The differences in the Rover and MG KV6, T16 Turbo and 1.8 VVC K Series engines are huge from just about every aspect.

That Tomcat Turbo Coupe looks very tidy. Will it be sacrificed to slot it's turbocharged T-series into the MG? Shame to do that. Better to obtain a damaged Rover 620ti with the bonus of its stronger TorSen PG1 gearbox and slot that and its engine into the MG.

Over ten years ago ##, someone slotted a 620ti turbocharged engine into an MG Montego Turbo with suitable brake and suspension upgrades. Boy could that car shift on the track much to the chagrin of those driving more 'exotic' stuff... :lol:. I drove it and was most impressed.

Be interested to see how things shape up with your projects so will watch for further updates.
..

  1. Edit ## to add @ 00:52
Actually it was more like fifteen years ago ~ how time flies when you're enjoying yourself.

Edited by MGJohn on Tuesday 31st January 00:52

S1_RS

782 posts

198 months

Tuesday 31st January 2012
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Have you tried driving the ZR160 in anger as it is? I bought one new in 2003 and tbh thought it was quite underrated. I had it std for a short while but soon added a set of AVO coilovers, it really handled well on those.

I think dropping the tomcat engine in might upset how well it turned in. I'd be inclined to strip the interior and fit some lightweight buckets, ditch the aircon if it has it, and see how it feels before going for an engine swap.

Wicker Man

Original Poster:

782 posts

242 months

Tuesday 31st January 2012
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Thanks for your comments guys.

I managed to give the Tomcat a proper look over at the weekend and it really is tatty inside and out. It has an MoT but God knows how. (It's the first time I've seen an advisory with three exclamation marks!) To be honest, I'm not certain that the engine is up to trackday use, and there is some DIY plumbing on the boost circuit that needs looking into.
So the engine swop can go on the back-burner for a bit while I prep one of the Z-cars.

I had a ZR 160 as my main car for ~3 years. It was the best handling car I've had, although I never took it around a track. Before that I have a Turbo tomcat for 8 years; fantastic torque, bulletproof engine; and a hedge-seeking-missile on cheap tyres. Where are you now M908ACL?

I am accutely aware that I could easily bugger up the handling of the ZR so will proceed with caution. I've read that the K series weight 95Kg and the T series 170Kg, so I need to loose ~75KG from the front half of the car - just to stand still. I may have to lay off the pies a bit!

So Plan A is to use the ZR with the VVC (initially) but loose the fog lights, air-con, move the battery to the boot (maybe fit a small Redflash Gel type), and swop the seats for these lightweight buckets that have just arrived:



I quite fancy the idea of acylic windows too, but that might wait.

Edited by Wicker Man on Tuesday 31st January 13:54

Roman

2,031 posts

218 months

Wednesday 1st February 2012
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Have you considered building a VVC Metro/Rover 100? Standard 3dr 100 is only 815-885kg to start with
http://www.talonsportscars.com/100rt.php

jmb88

212 posts

153 months

Wednesday 1st February 2012
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T-series into a bubble's relatively straightforward, but from what I've figured out from spending a lot of time on mg-rover.org is that there's a fair bit of work to go into making mounts, and the subframe, etc. tbh, I wouldn't have the patience for it.

supercharge the VVC? been done in MGFs, for ~200bhp, and very little weight added.

Wicker Man

Original Poster:

782 posts

242 months

Thursday 2nd February 2012
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Roman said:
Have you considered building a VVC Metro/Rover 100? Standard 3dr 100 is only 815-885kg to start with
http://www.talonsportscars.com/100rt.php
Yes, I've seen that Metros can make very effective trackday cars. In particular, it was being overtaken by Fast Eddys' one that got me thinking:





I noticed that the lightening extended to removing the bonnet stiffeners and replacing the inner door handles with wire loops. The K-series engine apparantly has a solid cam. No idea what the power was, but it sounded very healthy screaming down the staights.

But Metros don't do it for me, so a Z-car it is.

Wicker Man

Original Poster:

782 posts

242 months

Friday 10th February 2012
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I took the ZR round to the local weighbridge today:



The weighbridge resolution seemed to be 10Kg and I was assured the accuracy was spot on.



I also tried the front and rear split weights; these two add up to the total, so the numbers can't be far out. Maybe I'll try the corner weights next time. The numbers were:

Front: 700Kg
Rear: 380Kg
Total: 1080Kg



So after subtracting 10Kg for a 1/4 of a tank of fuel, I recon the current weight in completely standard trim is 1070Kg. That's over 200Kg lighter than the ZS 180 and a full half tonne lighter than my old ZT 190!

fast eddys

1,145 posts

200 months

Thursday 10th May 2012
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Hi, i am the owner of the Metro above. It is 153bhp from what was originally a 1.8 MGF 'solid cam' 118bhp engine. It weighs 750kg so has over 200hp/T. Surprises alot of stuff on track.

I would favour doing some more work on the ZR keeping the K series engine for now. The T series conversions are ok for road/straight line stuff, but upset the balance of the car especially when stripped out when alot of the weight comes out of the middle/rear of the car. You can get near the same power/weight of the T series conversion and be alot quicker round a track due to better handling/braking.

Eddy

Kermit power

28,575 posts

212 months

Thursday 10th May 2012
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Wicker Man said:
So after subtracting 10Kg for a 1/4 of a tank of fuel, I recon the current weight in completely standard trim is 1070Kg. That's over 200Kg lighter than the ZS 180 and a full half tonne lighter than my old ZT 190!
Schoolboy error there! You don't seem to have subtracted the weight of the snow! hehe

Wicker Man

Original Poster:

782 posts

242 months

Monday 14th May 2012
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Thanks for the tips Eddie. I was hoping to have tried it out at the Marham trackday by now but sadly that was cancelled. And RAF Wittering clashes with Glastonbudget! Ho Hum.

Kermit power said:
You don't seem to have subtracted the weight of the snow! hehe
Good point! Plus, I think there may be a couple of kilos of grit jammed behind the sill finishers etc. My new seats have saved 10Kg apiece, thanks largely to the DIY subframes; What a pain fabricating those was - some mechanical skill required my a**e.

(The OH was not in the car when the above weights were taken btw - probably best not to go into that!)

leighroy

69 posts

142 months

Tuesday 15th May 2012
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Hi all, first post on here and this is a topic of which I have some first hand knowledge.

The ZR is almost certainly your better option of the cars you own for track use without a mega budget. With a bit of effort and removal of creature comforts you can get the ZR down to about 800kg with the k series under the bonnet. It seems that at this point it'd be rude not to post up a pic of mine, I'll put up a more detailed thread of the build later.



Look forward to seeing progress with this.

Leigh

Wicker Man

Original Poster:

782 posts

242 months

Wednesday 16th May 2012
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Great pic Leigh, but how come your wheels are still touching the ground? - or have you just landed?
What does yours weigh? I think 800Kg would be going some, even with the paint removed! I been weighing the various bits and bobs and am surprised how light everthing is. Even the rear seat base is only a couple of kilos.

fast eddys

1,145 posts

200 months

Wednesday 16th May 2012
quotequote all
"Thanks for the tips Eddie. I was hoping to have tried it out at the Marham trackday by now but sadly that was cancelled. And RAF Wittering clashes with Glastonbudget! Ho Hum."

Plenty of other oportunities to have a play. Woodbridge with Javelin on the 19th.

Eddy

leighroy

69 posts

142 months

Wednesday 16th May 2012
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Thanks, must be due to the extra weight of having a passenger... I'll try harder next time I'm back at Cadwell.

Once its finished I'll get it weighed, there is a fair amount of weight in the sunroof, soundproofing, electrical gubbins, dash, heater, leccy windows/mirrors, door skins and all associated parts - the front seats are fairly weighty too.