Mgb distributor options

Mgb distributor options

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Discussion

Dbest92

Original Poster:

300 posts

133 months

Tuesday 12th August 2014
quotequote all
Basically I think the distributor on my mgb is worn out, I've had the timing professionally set up a few times and had the odd fiddle myself, but it pinks on hills or under load. I'm pretty sure the fuel mixture is spot on also. I have a lot of paperwork for the car and I think the only thing that hasn't been replaced or reconditioned in the past 25 years is the distributor! Hence my conclusion :P

So.. What Are the options? I've thought about having the distributor doctor rebuild it, but enquiries suggest the car would be off the road for a while. I'd imagine most 'new' distributors even from clubs are Chinese scensoredt and will break in 10 minutes. Which made me question the 123 distributor? Basically is it worth the rather steep cost? My car has a standard engine and basically I want something fairly reliable (a reliable mgb? :O). I've always preferred points and condenser, but recent quality issues, plus the fact the distributor isn't the easiest to reach has made me look elsewhere.

Cheers driving

nta16

7,898 posts

234 months

Tuesday 12th August 2014
quotequote all
Darren,
yes they are worth the cost particularly if the rest of the car is in good mechanical running condition and the car is regularly serviced and driven in the style it was design to

when I fitted one to my Midget there was an improvement from idle and throughout the rev range - then after a Peter Burgess rolling road tuning things were even better

IF Peter Burgess has any 123s left from when he stocked them I'd buy from him and have the car set up on his rolling road, the service and value is excellent from him

if you buy the 123 elsewhere then I'd still get a Peter Burgess rolling road set up

it's best to have the whole car fully up to date with its servicing before carrying out a rolling road set up to get the optimum from the tuning

http://www.peter-burgess.com/page28.html

he's also the chap that wrote the 'How to power tune MGB 4-cylinder engines for road & track' - http://www.peter-burgess.com/page31.html

his work place is an engineering shop with rolling road and not a boutique style so don't go in your best dress

ETA: if your MGB isn't reliable then it's your fault as the present owner as you've had it long enough and been told how to get it and keep it reliable, of course if you've not followed the advice your MGB could be unreliable because of your actions or omissions (wow I almost missed that comment)


Edited by nta16 on Tuesday 12th August 13:22

Geordie MGmike

134 posts

139 months

Tuesday 12th August 2014
quotequote all
That's a bit harsh Nigel soapboxhehe

Other options are the Aldon Amethyst or the Accuspark Stealth Black box
http://www.aldonamethyst.co.uk/
http://www.accuspark.co.uk/Blackbox.htm

Both fully programmable and a lot cheaper than a 123 (note: the original dizzy body needs to be used and the gears will need to be checked for wear).

best of....

nta16

7,898 posts

234 months

Tuesday 12th August 2014
quotequote all
Geordie MGmike said:
That's a bit harsh Nigel soapboxhehe
I'm always harsh on Darrens or Dazzers wink


Geordie MGmike said:
Both fully programmable and a lot cheaper than a 123 (note: the original dizzy body needs to be used and the gears will need to be checked for wear).
your comparing a nice apple with a pear that has a rotting middle

or was that too harsh biggrin

the 123 is fully electronic, top and bottom and uses all new parts, Darren has already put he thinks his existing dissy is worn so would he want to use parts from it

as for programmable, mine's not and still works very well and you'd want to program it when the car is in top condition or wouldn't you need to adjust the program later - rather like get the car serviced and put it on a rolling road

Darren did ask for options but also whether the 123 is worth the cost, compared to the others so far yes it is - there are much cheaper alternatives and some will recommend them but I've heard they may not be such good value for money unless you buy two working units and fit one and keep the other in the boot as a spare - but when you fit the spare you'll need to buy another spare, if you want to fart about like that stick to points and fiddle away until your heart is content

nta16

7,898 posts

234 months

Tuesday 12th August 2014
quotequote all
Darren,
what octane and petrol are you using?

if your car was set up for (95(?) or 97 then it should run OK on (95(?) or 97 but I'd try a couple of tankfulls of Tesco Momentum99 and see how that goes

Dbest92

Original Poster:

300 posts

133 months

Tuesday 12th August 2014
quotequote all
I'm tempted by one. I'd like to think my car is in good mechanical condition, it's used often and regularly serviced, not tempting fate but it's been completely reliable apart from a few niggles when I got it!

Hmm yeah I think the whole distributor is worn, it also looks old and looking around the internet I'm thinking the shaft/weights/springs are worn, hence thinking it would be best to replace the lot. As new replacements aren't great I was thinking of the 123, as, as Nigel says, you get what you pay for. I do like points and condenser believe it or not, but they're such a pain to get to on the B. I will look into those units but I am swaying towards the 123, IIRC there is one made for the mgb, although reading into re: advance curves, but it got a tad confusing hehe

I generally run the car on shell v power (98/99?), the car was originally set up for 95, but last time it was set it was running v power, there is a slight different but it still likes to pink on hills etc. I may try Tesco momentum out of interest, originally worried about ethanol content but ill have to make sure use it up quick wink

Cheers


OldBuoy

27,012 posts

183 months

Tuesday 12th August 2014
quotequote all
I had a worn dizzy, so never got things completely right. I fitted a 123 fixed this and removed a variable from tuning the car smile. A rate the 123 very well built. The only thing (I think it's changed now) the advance curve adjustment was on the bottom of the dizzy so it had to be removed and timing set whilst trying to find the ideal curve.

I only use the manufacturers settings as guide lines, I tend to advance the ignition (a more agressive curve setting on the 123) until it pinks and then back it off a little (select a milder curve on the 123)

nta16

7,898 posts

234 months

Tuesday 12th August 2014
quotequote all
Darren,
if its pinking on 99 octane and it's all been set up correctly then some thing (or several things are worn)

don't listen to the MGB old farts worrying about ethanol, they did the same about needing leaded petrol for the engines - the ones that worry about ethanol most are the ones that never used their cars - they blame the ethanol for lack of use issues

(cough, cough, cough - poor B owners choking on their Wherther's Originals at that last comment)

Tesco Momentum99 is a maximum of 5% ethanol - http://www.tescopfs.com/our-fuel/specifications

if it was last set up on Shell V-Power Nitro+ which is 99 octane then that probably shows things possibly aren't running as well as they could/should - you've painted yourself in a corner by setting up with 99 octane better to set up on (95 if it'll have it, very doubtful at the moment) or 97 octane as you can always put in either 97 or 99 (not that I have a cosy garage)

although I mostly run on Tesco Momentum99 for its package of cleaning additives I always have the car set with 95 octane as sometimes when you travel more than 10 minutes from your cosy garage you can only find stations selling 95 (or 97)

as for the curves, they were very good compromise of averages at the time for a new car in the 1970s with 1970s circumstances, some say the 1973 cars (actual or model year I'm not sure) had a couple more quirks than others

if you're that worried you can get a programmable 123 but I wouldn't unless it was at a very good price, how many different curves a minute do you think your car's on now

just putting the 123 in you'll think you've got a different car, then adjusting to run at its optimum you'll think the engine has improved (which it has) getting it set up fully with a GOOD rolling road tuner (not all are even those with good reputations) and you'll wonder why you hadn't done it sooner and kick yourself for not having done - but don't your young and inexperienced and still learning

once the 123 is fully set up leave it alone, don't fiddle with anything including the carbs unless you really have

obviously your present dissy not being in the best of condition could also be hiding or disguising other areas that are lowering the potential of the car, that's the downside of improvements it upsets the balance, highlights the other lower preforming areas on the car - luckily your car doesn't have any other than the dissy biggrin

Dbest92

Original Poster:

300 posts

133 months

Saturday 16th August 2014
quotequote all
Thanks again guys

Thought I'd try a different set of points just out of pure interest, installed car ran fine, brilliant. Next day started car and it started misfiring badly and eventually cut out, then upon trying to restart i think I flooded it (1st time I've ever done that) but sorted that out and blamed the crap points.

Put old (old so probably good quality) points in and same again but once it was up to temperature and I took it out on the road it was perfect, plenty of power and no pinking at all. Yet now and then it will still randomly fart and splutter, backfire etc for a bit but will usually sort itself after some revs. Almost as if there's over fuelling or a weak spark at certain time. Seems quite random

Went through all of the ignition components, substituting various bits and all seems to be in order, fine this afternoon ( but it was the other day) so will keep fingers crossed for now, but I'm not convinced, Probably something I've done but could be a coincidence. Seems I've cured one problem but created another

Anyways I'm pretty sure it's points or condenser related, or a short/wire in there somewhere, hence my quest on electronic. For the 123 is it worth buying the MGB specific one or the normal 4 cylinder one (I've seen recommendations for both for the mgb). i see the mgoc sell them and I'd probably get it from them (not sure which one they sell though). However I'm still reluctant to spend the £300 but I suppose I am tight hehe, but if it proves to be reliable then I'm happy! I've looked at electronic kits which go inside the original Dissy but they seem to be hit and miss. Just looking at some cost saving measures :P

  • also been looking at getting my original Dissy reconditioned by the distributor doctor but not sure which avenue is best to take
Edited by Dbest92 on Saturday 16th August 19:28


Edited by Dbest92 on Saturday 16th August 19:34

v8250

2,724 posts

211 months

Saturday 16th August 2014
quotequote all
OP,

123 dizzies are great but to be frank most owners don't need one. My suggestion is you buy a very good quality electronic high spark unit [25D or 45D] from SimonBBC. The units are well made, completely reliable and very well priced. I've used a number of these from SimonBBC and they've never let me down. They often have bundle prices for a distributor and coil together plus the customer support from this company is first rate.

I'm using the V8 version for my roadster conversion and have just bought the high output fuel pump + filter + lightweight alloy fixing from them this week. Give them a call...

see...http://www.simonbbc.com/distributors/4cyl-high-energy/45d-high-energy-electronic-mgb-distributor

Dbest92

Original Poster:

300 posts

133 months

Saturday 16th August 2014
quotequote all
v8250 said:
OP,

123 dizzies are great but to be frank most owners don't need one. My suggestion is you buy a very good quality electronic high spark unit [25D or 45D] from SimonBBC. The units are well made, completely reliable and very well priced. I've used a number of these from SimonBBC and they've never let me down. They often have bundle prices for a distributor and coil together plus the customer support from this company is first rate.

I'm using the V8 version for my roadster conversion and have just bought the high output fuel pump + filter + lightweight alloy fixing from them this week. Give them a call...

see...http://www.simonbbc.com/distributors/4cyl-high-energy/45d-high-energy-electronic-mgb-distributor
Ideal, thanks for that! That is a cheap price I have to say, especially as they're on offer! surprising they can get a quality item for that price? But it's something I'll consider, seeing as I do need a new distributor after today's investigations!

v8250

2,724 posts

211 months

Sunday 17th August 2014
quotequote all
Dbest92 said:
Ideal, thanks for that! That is a cheap price I have to say, especially as they're on offer! surprising they can get a quality item for that price? But it's something I'll consider, seeing as I do need a new distributor after today's investigations!
Dbest92, I can't have been thinking straight when sending the email last night. I have a high output 45D distributor and coil plus Magnecor KV85 ignition kit you could buy. These are from my roadster prior to the start of the V8 conversion and have been used for less than 700 miles. This set up provides very good power spark output to the plugs. Can easily post to you. PM me if interested. Here they are when installed.



Dbest92

Original Poster:

300 posts

133 months

Wednesday 27th August 2014
quotequote all
Thanks for the offer v8250 but ordered a 123 in the end! (Jealous of that immaculate engine bay though)

Have to say I'm massively impressed with the 123, I've not fine tuned it properly yet and it's a bit flat at lower revs, but I don't think it's far off. No pinking at all now or spluttering at low revs, has made the engine quite flexible. I ended up with the MG one in the end, despite reading recommendations for the standard 123 for 4 cylinder car, it seems fine. On inspection my old distributor was from a different car, so that with no vacuum advance was the cause of my problems!

Took a bit of time to instal though as initially wouldn't run when all was set to TDC. in the end I just kept advancing it until it turned about 90 degrees and walla!

Another job ticked off the list smile

nta16

7,898 posts

234 months

Thursday 28th August 2014
quotequote all
Dbest92 said:
I've not fine tuned it properly yet and it's a bit flat at lower revs, but I don't think it's far off.

. . . Another job ticked off the list smile
well not really, more adjustment and checking is required

but at last you've seen the light about dissys

if you'd have posted photos of your engine bay the missing vacuum would have been noticed and possibly that you had the wrong dissy - plus a quick look in the Driver's Handbook would have informed you

you do seem to want to make things difficult for yourself by not following advice you've previously been given which means you've missed out on your MGB running better falling into the stereotype for a youngster running a classic and the stereotype of a owner of a under performance MGB

you know the only way to fully set up the dissy (rolling road after full car service) but in the meantime to get things closer follow this order -

1) check/adjust tappets
2) check and clean your spark plugs (change them if they're over 2 years old, use NGK) and increase the gap to take advantage of the better ignition you now have
3) if your HT leads are tired replace them - perfomanceleads - http://www.performanceleads.co.uk/ order over the phone via their website
4) check/adjust as required timing
5) find a steep hill near you to use as a test and keep moving the dissy until the car just pinks on the hill and then slightly move dissy back from there
6) check/adjust carb mixture

Edited by nta16 on Thursday 28th August 10:51

Dbest92

Original Poster:

300 posts

133 months

Thursday 28th August 2014
quotequote all
Yeah it needs some fine tuning, but it's running pretty well so I can get back driving it again, problem is I don't think there any classic garages with a rolling road in cornwall, or not what I've seen so far. However as you say ill fine tune it on a hill advancing it until it pinks then back it off which should get it close enough.

The old unit had a vacuum unit on it, but on closer investigation it didn't work. It was kind of the correct Dissy, as in a 25d, but the serial number didn't match any MG serial numbers. Leads and plugs are new, tappets are ok.

Overall the 123 is a decent bit of kit. I'm not expecting to get it spot on as the curves are probably a bit different and there's bound to be other variables, but it doesn't run too bad at the moment, so a bit of fine tuning and it should be pretty good

OldBuoy

27,012 posts

183 months

Thursday 28th August 2014
quotequote all
I took a while to set up my 123, playing with curves etc.
Don't alter the static timing just find the right curve.

I was nervous at 1st and went for a mild curve. After a while I found more mid range advance suited the engine better.
I was able to source the original curve for my car online and using the 123 literature picked the nearest curve to it.

The 123 guys have quite a good forum and provided some good advice during my initial set up. Whilst mine wasn't a rare car they didn't have any experience from 123 conversions on that model. I sent them the original spec for my dizzy to confirm my thoughts.

Good bit of kit, I wouldn't hesitate to have another one.

nta16

7,898 posts

234 months

Thursday 28th August 2014
quotequote all
Dbest92 said:
However as you say ill fine tune it on a hill advancing it until it pinks then back it off which should get it close enough.
subject to your tappets, plugs and timing being correct, then once you get the 123 set up correctly check/adjust the carbs

as I put providing everything is set up correctly you can widen the spark plug gap to take advantage of your improved ignition


Dbest92 said:
Overall the 123 is a decent bit of kit. I'm not expecting to get it spot on as the curves are probably a bit different and there's bound to be other variables,
yes variables but if you set the 123 to appropriate curve for your model then unless you've got a very non-standard car set up then it should be spot on (from what you can tell without a rolling road) - it's like the carbs get it set correctly then leave it alone don't be fiddling with it

same for setting up, you've read too much about getting the curve to suit your car, fiddling around for your street going MGB is not required, as I've put set it on the appropriate curve and leave it there

if your previous dissy wasn't correct for your car then the settings may be entirely different when you fit the 123 and set it to the appropriate curve for your model


Dbest92 said:
but it doesn't run too bad at the moment, so a bit of fine tuning and it should be pretty good
if it's running not too bad it is not right - either you have problems elsewhere with the car or you need to get it set up right and go on to check/adjust the carbs

I think possibly you've read too much about owners fiddling with the 123 to find the right curve for what must be their special car that is above the standard settings (not all but often the owners are only fooling themselves) that you think the initial 123 set up is more complicated than it actually is, get the timing right and all with fall into place

you've got so used to driving a shiny red B that isn't fully set up properly that your expectations are too low as to how well your car could or should go, get out of that mindset, you want your car to be "goes very well" rather than "doesn't run too bad at the moment"!!!!!!!

bright red paint on their Bs often means owners accepting and keeping lower levels of performance of their cars - don't you remain one of those, get out of the stereotype

Edited by nta16 on Thursday 28th August 15:55

Dbest92

Original Poster:

300 posts

133 months

Tuesday 2nd September 2014
quotequote all
Well I've had a good fiddle and am pretty happy with the set up now! There's a long uphill 2 lane stretch of road near me with a few lay-bys. Who knows how many times I went up and down but I think I've got it pretty dam close to what it should be. Advanced until it pinked and kept backing off in small amounts until it doesn't. Runs super now, very flexible, smooth and performs well.

Interesting about the curve choices, I was tempted to try a different one, but it's running well where it is now therefore reluctant to change it. A definite improvement from what it was! As for static timing, this seemed problematic at first and I could only get decent results by turning the distributor. Either way, doing it myself and getting it running like it is proved to good a good learning 'curve' (har har), which I'm quite pleased about! Previously I'd always considered timing to be a 'dark art'

Finished securing the wiring and a fresh coat of autoglym wax to keep it shining like a typical B wink, and all's good!

nta16

7,898 posts

234 months

Tuesday 2nd September 2014
quotequote all
well done

provided the tappets were pretty close to what they should be you can forget fiddling with the timing and dissy now, if you've got good HT leads and spark plugs then have a wide plug gap, set the carbs (subject to clean/clear air filters) and forget about everything until at least the next annual service just drive the car (don't SORN it drive it) you've already missed out on (some?/lots? of) the car's potential for long enough