Coils for SR3 1300 2003
Discussion
Hi Everyone,
Can anyone let me know the spec of the coil packs for A SR3 2003 with a Gen 1 1300 in it please? I've got an issue with ignition after our race last weekend (a high speed missfire that just kept getting worse; but would go away after a bit of a rest to cool down) and I need to try and find one locally so I can get the car sorted for our next round.
We won the sportscar class in our first outing in the 3 hour enduro series running here in NZ. Co-driver Elton Goonan qualified us in 8th of 48 in all, up against some serious GT3 Porsche and Ferrari gear plus some very quick V8's.
We were up against a Juno SSC driven by Dean McCarroll and David Glasson, and Kenny Smith in a Lotus 211 with Exige running gear in our class.
All three of the sportscars had problems, the Juno with bad fuel, which is possibly a part of the missfire issue we hit too. The Lotus boiled itself dry.
We finished the race after a few stops to try and sort things out, but I posted a first up 68 lap stint before handing over to Elton who hit issues after 12 laps out. It's a real pity, as the car ran like clock work for my run. It felt the same at lap 68 as it did at lap 1. We gave it a really good setup to run the race with and deal with the really bumpy track. The only running issue was managing our race pace at NZ's fastest track, where the little 1300 runs out of steam on the very long back straight. I was going through turn 1 at somewhere over 170kph though. :>)
The next two events are at tracks that we really shine at thanks to lots more corners, so we'll be able to keep in front on the more powerful cars. We've got four weeks to get the car ready to go for the Taupo event.
Here's a few pics and a short bit of in car from last weekend's entertainment at the Pukekohe 3 hour.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tCeNwCVPk3M&fea...
Thanks to the team on the weekend; Nathan Head, Nick Buck, Pete De Joux and Theo Zlatanov. We couldn't have competed without you and the support of Atomise Limited, JMR Storage, UPS Power Solutions, Wilford Motorsport, Formula Challenge and Almac Cars.
Rich
Can anyone let me know the spec of the coil packs for A SR3 2003 with a Gen 1 1300 in it please? I've got an issue with ignition after our race last weekend (a high speed missfire that just kept getting worse; but would go away after a bit of a rest to cool down) and I need to try and find one locally so I can get the car sorted for our next round.
We won the sportscar class in our first outing in the 3 hour enduro series running here in NZ. Co-driver Elton Goonan qualified us in 8th of 48 in all, up against some serious GT3 Porsche and Ferrari gear plus some very quick V8's.
We were up against a Juno SSC driven by Dean McCarroll and David Glasson, and Kenny Smith in a Lotus 211 with Exige running gear in our class.
All three of the sportscars had problems, the Juno with bad fuel, which is possibly a part of the missfire issue we hit too. The Lotus boiled itself dry.
We finished the race after a few stops to try and sort things out, but I posted a first up 68 lap stint before handing over to Elton who hit issues after 12 laps out. It's a real pity, as the car ran like clock work for my run. It felt the same at lap 68 as it did at lap 1. We gave it a really good setup to run the race with and deal with the really bumpy track. The only running issue was managing our race pace at NZ's fastest track, where the little 1300 runs out of steam on the very long back straight. I was going through turn 1 at somewhere over 170kph though. :>)
The next two events are at tracks that we really shine at thanks to lots more corners, so we'll be able to keep in front on the more powerful cars. We've got four weeks to get the car ready to go for the Taupo event.
Here's a few pics and a short bit of in car from last weekend's entertainment at the Pukekohe 3 hour.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tCeNwCVPk3M&fea...
Thanks to the team on the weekend; Nathan Head, Nick Buck, Pete De Joux and Theo Zlatanov. We couldn't have competed without you and the support of Atomise Limited, JMR Storage, UPS Power Solutions, Wilford Motorsport, Formula Challenge and Almac Cars.
Rich
The current SR3 coil pack is a Siemens 5WK9 061 1 also known as a GM 90 458 250, fitted to various Vauxhall / Opel vehicles.
http://www.yoyoparts.com/oem/131653/siemens-5wk906...
I don't know if the "gen 1" you refer to is the same or not, but this coil pack worked fine on my early 1300 injection engine running wasted spark with an MBE ECU.
http://www.yoyoparts.com/oem/131653/siemens-5wk906...
I don't know if the "gen 1" you refer to is the same or not, but this coil pack worked fine on my early 1300 injection engine running wasted spark with an MBE ECU.
Well, we have definitely had a bad voltage regulator and sorted out the fuel pump filters, and injectors from the bad load of fuel we got, but the continuing issue isn't the coil, or the leads, plugs, TPS, water temp, oil temp, barometric pressure or O2 sensors, plug gap, fuel pressure, fuel injectors, fuel pump, fuel filter or bad engine compression...
Our Taupo race was a non-event. The guys put a huge effort into going through the car, replacing and testing everything in the fuel system and ignition system, then all the engine sensors. I couldn't even manage a single flying lap. :>/ We've replaced the fuel pump, fuel filter, coil, plugs, leads, O2 sensor and TPS. We pulled apart, cleaned and tested all the battery connections, ground and power connections and the ECU connector We have a fuel pressure gauge fitted, and that's showing all OK. It just missed and farted and felt like hitting a limiter that was dropping as you went further.
So the car went back on the trailer and headed back to home.
Headed there to do some more testing with some more info from Radical and RAW. We event tried strapping the booster battery into the car, and that helped things for a couple of laps, so that sent us back down the ignition/ electrical path, so took the car into a mates auto electrical business and found that the voltage reg was bad. Hey, that could cause the problem! Charging voltage and battery tested OK. All four pots on the engine test OK too, so at least it is OK inside.
RAW suggested that a bad barometric pressure sensor could cause it, so got my hands on one of those too. Also talked to Radical and SBD about the ECU in the car. The ECU I have is THE prototype, and according to the ECU guys, shouldn't have left the factory %^&#!!!!! So, no outputs for diagnostics, no opening it up and no quickly plugging in another ECU as the connector is all different. :>\
With hope that we had found something definitely wrong that can cause the issue we headed to Manfeild on Friday. Where the car misbehaved and got worse and worse. It started missing in the pits, not just on track.
So we pulled all the electrical connections at the front of the car, inc the main power switch and took off all non-essential things too. No change. One of the guys at the track the wandered over to check things out and so we let him run through fault finding as a check to us. He suggested closing up the plug gaps, which made a diffference for a couple of warm up laps... I was starting to think we were on to something with a decent hot lap (passed EVERYTHING else out there) and then boom, there's the fault again. I tried driving through it, and just about didn't get back to the pits. :>(
So it feels like the issue has to be in the ECU in the ignition trigger circuit; it's all that's left. So am ordering a replacement ECU, that is fully open, has diagnostics and logging, and they are supplying it with a Radical spec loom and a base map.
Thanks to Radical UK and Australia, RAW motorsport and SBD Motorsport for their help so far, but we are not making the last round of the series next weekend.
If anyone wants to make an offer to be the proud owner of the ECU that started it all, let me know!
Rich
Our Taupo race was a non-event. The guys put a huge effort into going through the car, replacing and testing everything in the fuel system and ignition system, then all the engine sensors. I couldn't even manage a single flying lap. :>/ We've replaced the fuel pump, fuel filter, coil, plugs, leads, O2 sensor and TPS. We pulled apart, cleaned and tested all the battery connections, ground and power connections and the ECU connector We have a fuel pressure gauge fitted, and that's showing all OK. It just missed and farted and felt like hitting a limiter that was dropping as you went further.
So the car went back on the trailer and headed back to home.
Headed there to do some more testing with some more info from Radical and RAW. We event tried strapping the booster battery into the car, and that helped things for a couple of laps, so that sent us back down the ignition/ electrical path, so took the car into a mates auto electrical business and found that the voltage reg was bad. Hey, that could cause the problem! Charging voltage and battery tested OK. All four pots on the engine test OK too, so at least it is OK inside.
RAW suggested that a bad barometric pressure sensor could cause it, so got my hands on one of those too. Also talked to Radical and SBD about the ECU in the car. The ECU I have is THE prototype, and according to the ECU guys, shouldn't have left the factory %^&#!!!!! So, no outputs for diagnostics, no opening it up and no quickly plugging in another ECU as the connector is all different. :>\
With hope that we had found something definitely wrong that can cause the issue we headed to Manfeild on Friday. Where the car misbehaved and got worse and worse. It started missing in the pits, not just on track.
So we pulled all the electrical connections at the front of the car, inc the main power switch and took off all non-essential things too. No change. One of the guys at the track the wandered over to check things out and so we let him run through fault finding as a check to us. He suggested closing up the plug gaps, which made a diffference for a couple of warm up laps... I was starting to think we were on to something with a decent hot lap (passed EVERYTHING else out there) and then boom, there's the fault again. I tried driving through it, and just about didn't get back to the pits. :>(
So it feels like the issue has to be in the ECU in the ignition trigger circuit; it's all that's left. So am ordering a replacement ECU, that is fully open, has diagnostics and logging, and they are supplying it with a Radical spec loom and a base map.
Thanks to Radical UK and Australia, RAW motorsport and SBD Motorsport for their help so far, but we are not making the last round of the series next weekend.
If anyone wants to make an offer to be the proud owner of the ECU that started it all, let me know!
Rich
I have been in a similar position but in my case it was a non-start situation where I had no spark whatsoever. I was so convinced it was an ECU problem after testing all sorts of stuff I sent it off to be tested. It came back with no issues found, and in the end it turned out to be a high resistance in the ignition wiring loom.
When under load any amount of resistance in the loom multiplies the loss of voltage so if one of the ignition feeds is starting to fail this could easily be the impact. Closing the gaps on the plugs would make it easier for them to spark if the voltage is weak, so my guess is you have a weak voltage at the coil.
There is a relay behind the heat shield which is powered on when the ignition is switched on. It takes a +12v feed from the ignition and feeds it to the coils. The ECU controls the ground to the coils which is what enables it to generate a spark at the right moment. Test the resistance between the battery and the *input* to that relay. And test the resistance between the output of the relay and the coil pack. If there is anything other than zero then that is a problem that needs to be corrected. That feed was the root cause of my issue above.
I have found multiple problems on my loom of late. It is getting old now (2005 car) and is probably suffering from all the heat so it's no surprise it is starting to degrade.
In case you don't already have it there is an SR3 wiring diagram on Simon Tilling's website which will give you the correct pin numbers and positions for the relays and the coils.
When under load any amount of resistance in the loom multiplies the loss of voltage so if one of the ignition feeds is starting to fail this could easily be the impact. Closing the gaps on the plugs would make it easier for them to spark if the voltage is weak, so my guess is you have a weak voltage at the coil.
There is a relay behind the heat shield which is powered on when the ignition is switched on. It takes a +12v feed from the ignition and feeds it to the coils. The ECU controls the ground to the coils which is what enables it to generate a spark at the right moment. Test the resistance between the battery and the *input* to that relay. And test the resistance between the output of the relay and the coil pack. If there is anything other than zero then that is a problem that needs to be corrected. That feed was the root cause of my issue above.
I have found multiple problems on my loom of late. It is getting old now (2005 car) and is probably suffering from all the heat so it's no surprise it is starting to degrade.
In case you don't already have it there is an SR3 wiring diagram on Simon Tilling's website which will give you the correct pin numbers and positions for the relays and the coils.
Thanks for the good advice.
I'll check the resistance on that link ASAP.
I think that I am locked into upgrading the ECU and re-doing the wiring, as it is the next natural step in improving the car. Especially now I know how limited the ECU is.
I wonder if I am even getting full engine performance? I'm guessing a prototype setup would be extremely conservative?
Thanks
Rich
I'll check the resistance on that link ASAP.
I think that I am locked into upgrading the ECU and re-doing the wiring, as it is the next natural step in improving the car. Especially now I know how limited the ECU is.
I wonder if I am even getting full engine performance? I'm guessing a prototype setup would be extremely conservative?
Thanks
Rich
Hello again,( I posted on other thread).
In addition to the charge issue and Barometric unit ( thank the lord someone remembered the name of it!! :-)....),
I got to thinking of all issues with older shape sr3s over years.
When you pitted after 68 laps and problem materialised... had the first stint / driver change been subject to engine stop while changing driver?
If so was it by Switches nearer driver on dash or by Red Master switch key,??
I recall someone telling me when they get old they ( master switches)...are subject to heat and vibration / cracking even though theyre something we take for granted , perhaps a passenger run to hold key or to twist it and see if symptoms change.?? Long shot. Or bypass??
Also , sensor in airbox gets a bit tortured by heat a bit and love a bit of silver tape when installed.
Another thing I had on one was a physical breakdown/ short of battery on the move??
If charge voltage ok/ charges ok overnight/ etc had you still run a physically different battery from what was there??
other little gems are Right Fuel pump type when replaced ... i.e carb type/ injector type different pulse rates??
Dont wish to confuse matter but as youve tried so many things I just thought I would remember all I could thats in my recentish memory.
Also fuse/ holder in charging circuit has been a past issue for some.
And I have to admit Ive had a Grey Relay or two been replaced over time.
Just a few things Ive pulled out of my A##e but worth a try but take comfort in the spares package youll have!!
All the best luck but honestly with the heat and stress they endure I think the older 3's did well considering....
In addition to the charge issue and Barometric unit ( thank the lord someone remembered the name of it!! :-)....),
I got to thinking of all issues with older shape sr3s over years.
When you pitted after 68 laps and problem materialised... had the first stint / driver change been subject to engine stop while changing driver?
If so was it by Switches nearer driver on dash or by Red Master switch key,??
I recall someone telling me when they get old they ( master switches)...are subject to heat and vibration / cracking even though theyre something we take for granted , perhaps a passenger run to hold key or to twist it and see if symptoms change.?? Long shot. Or bypass??
Also , sensor in airbox gets a bit tortured by heat a bit and love a bit of silver tape when installed.
Another thing I had on one was a physical breakdown/ short of battery on the move??
If charge voltage ok/ charges ok overnight/ etc had you still run a physically different battery from what was there??
other little gems are Right Fuel pump type when replaced ... i.e carb type/ injector type different pulse rates??
Dont wish to confuse matter but as youve tried so many things I just thought I would remember all I could thats in my recentish memory.
Also fuse/ holder in charging circuit has been a past issue for some.
And I have to admit Ive had a Grey Relay or two been replaced over time.
Just a few things Ive pulled out of my A##e but worth a try but take comfort in the spares package youll have!!
All the best luck but honestly with the heat and stress they endure I think the older 3's did well considering....
Thanks for your reply, sorry I split the thread up.
>]Hello again,( I posted on other thread).
>In addition to the charge issue and Barometric unit ( thank the lord someone remembered the name of it!! :-)....),
> I got to thinking of all issues with older shape sr3s over years.
> When you pitted after 68 laps and problem materialised... had the first stint / driver change been subject to >engine stop while changing driver?
Yes, the engine was off for approx 2 minutes while we refuled and swapped drivers.
> If so was it by Switches nearer driver on dash or by Red Master switch key,??
>I recall someone telling me when they get old they ( master switches)...are subject to heat and vibration / cracking even >though theyre something we take for granted , perhaps a passenger run to hold key or to twist it and see if symptoms >change.?? Long shot. Or bypass??
The power off was by the master key. I had heard of other people having problems with old mater keys, and ordered a new one just in case. Pete, my electrics guru, tested the switch and it appears all OK. All the contacts t the back of the switch were removed and replaced. Nothing other than ignition is affected, so I don't think it can be the master switch here.
>Also , sensor in airbox gets a bit tortured by heat a bit and love a bit of silver tape when installed.
We tested that too, and didn't find a change after replacing the sensor.
> Another thing I had on one was a physical breakdown/ short of battery on the move??
>If charge voltage ok/ charges ok overnight/ etc had you still run a physically different battery from what was there??
No, I haven't swapped out the battery, but I have load tested it and it showed OK.
>other little gems are Right Fuel pump type when replaced ... i.e carb type/ injector type different pulse rates??
> Dont wish to confuse matter but as you've tried so many things I just thought I would remember all I could thats in >my recentish memory.
Your suggestions are gratefully appreciated. We've tried our best to do the fault finding in an orderly manner so that I've got some questions to ask, and any new suggestions are welcome. The fuel pup is the correct injector model and fuel pressure and injectors are doing their thing correctly
> Also fuse/ holder in charging circuit has been a past issue for some.
> And I have to admit Ive had a Grey Relay or two been replaced over time.
The relays have been all replaced and contacts checked.
> Just a few things Ive pulled out of my A##e but worth a try but take comfort in the spares package youll have!!
> All the best luck but honestly with the heat and stress they endure I think the older 3's did well considering....
Yes, the car will be even better prepared, and with a new ECU and wiring installed; plus a little extra retune to hopefully release some extra horses. :>)
Thanks
Rich
>]Hello again,( I posted on other thread).
>In addition to the charge issue and Barometric unit ( thank the lord someone remembered the name of it!! :-)....),
> I got to thinking of all issues with older shape sr3s over years.
> When you pitted after 68 laps and problem materialised... had the first stint / driver change been subject to >engine stop while changing driver?
Yes, the engine was off for approx 2 minutes while we refuled and swapped drivers.
> If so was it by Switches nearer driver on dash or by Red Master switch key,??
>I recall someone telling me when they get old they ( master switches)...are subject to heat and vibration / cracking even >though theyre something we take for granted , perhaps a passenger run to hold key or to twist it and see if symptoms >change.?? Long shot. Or bypass??
The power off was by the master key. I had heard of other people having problems with old mater keys, and ordered a new one just in case. Pete, my electrics guru, tested the switch and it appears all OK. All the contacts t the back of the switch were removed and replaced. Nothing other than ignition is affected, so I don't think it can be the master switch here.
>Also , sensor in airbox gets a bit tortured by heat a bit and love a bit of silver tape when installed.
We tested that too, and didn't find a change after replacing the sensor.
> Another thing I had on one was a physical breakdown/ short of battery on the move??
>If charge voltage ok/ charges ok overnight/ etc had you still run a physically different battery from what was there??
No, I haven't swapped out the battery, but I have load tested it and it showed OK.
>other little gems are Right Fuel pump type when replaced ... i.e carb type/ injector type different pulse rates??
> Dont wish to confuse matter but as you've tried so many things I just thought I would remember all I could thats in >my recentish memory.
Your suggestions are gratefully appreciated. We've tried our best to do the fault finding in an orderly manner so that I've got some questions to ask, and any new suggestions are welcome. The fuel pup is the correct injector model and fuel pressure and injectors are doing their thing correctly
> Also fuse/ holder in charging circuit has been a past issue for some.
> And I have to admit Ive had a Grey Relay or two been replaced over time.
The relays have been all replaced and contacts checked.
> Just a few things Ive pulled out of my A##e but worth a try but take comfort in the spares package youll have!!
> All the best luck but honestly with the heat and stress they endure I think the older 3's did well considering....
Yes, the car will be even better prepared, and with a new ECU and wiring installed; plus a little extra retune to hopefully release some extra horses. :>)
Thanks
Rich
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