Intrax 4 way Shocks vs. Intrax 1k2 vs. Stock AVOs
Discussion
dsl2 said:
Your very welcome to get a 7 & come and have a go if you think you'd be up to challenging me in my more natural environment on the hillclimbs, bring it on!
Hey Darren - bring that beast over to Craigantlet (6th Aug) - its a round of the Britsh Hill Climb Championship.... I hope to be there with my machine for the first time..I share DSLs findings ....a friend of mine put a set of Nitrons (single adjustable) on his Caterham this year and they looked fantastic but were totally rubbish. Not stiff enough, and limited adjustment.....would have been better putting some ropey old AVOs on the car and saving himself a fortune....(hope he isnt reading this...)
I had my first taste of a set of Koni 2812s on my car today and quite frankly they are bloody incredible!
They seem to soak up the bumps whilst maintaining composure. I had only run AVOs on it before and have gone for softer springs to compensate for the in-built rate in the damper (they extend on their own due to the nitrogen pressure etc)but it wasn't bottoming out or pattering over bumps like it used to. Superb.
They seem to soak up the bumps whilst maintaining composure. I had only run AVOs on it before and have gone for softer springs to compensate for the in-built rate in the damper (they extend on their own due to the nitrogen pressure etc)but it wasn't bottoming out or pattering over bumps like it used to. Superb.
Martin B said:
I had my first taste of a set of Koni 2812s on my car today and quite frankly they are bloody incredible!
They seem to soak up the bumps whilst maintaining composure. I had only run AVOs on it before and have gone for softer springs to compensate for the in-built rate in the damper (they extend on their own due to the nitrogen pressure etc)but it wasn't bottoming out or pattering over bumps like it used to. Superb.
What size springs did you go for?They seem to soak up the bumps whilst maintaining composure. I had only run AVOs on it before and have gone for softer springs to compensate for the in-built rate in the damper (they extend on their own due to the nitrogen pressure etc)but it wasn't bottoming out or pattering over bumps like it used to. Superb.
Martin B said:
I had my first taste of a set of Koni 2812s on my car today and quite frankly they are bloody incredible!
They seem to soak up the bumps whilst maintaining composure. I had only run AVOs on it before and have gone for softer springs to compensate for the in-built rate in the damper (they extend on their own due to the nitrogen pressure etc)but it wasn't bottoming out or pattering over bumps like it used to. Superb.
As you've changed 2 things, how do you know which contributed what?They seem to soak up the bumps whilst maintaining composure. I had only run AVOs on it before and have gone for softer springs to compensate for the in-built rate in the damper (they extend on their own due to the nitrogen pressure etc)but it wasn't bottoming out or pattering over bumps like it used to. Superb.
Not wanting to be a miserable old git, it's just that my scientific training makes me think that way...................
Unfortunately if I had put the same springs on the konis it would have been even less of a direct comparison as the wheel rate would have rocketed. The thing is, with the AVOs there is no additional spring rate, where the shock stops without a spring fited is where it stops even mid stroke, the konis, even without springs fitted extend fully and take considerable pressure to compress, even without springs fitted (yes I know I repeated this bit but it is the crucks of the whole matter here!). This is not the valving, it is the mono tube design with the nitrogen charged piston at the base causing this. To get the same wheel rate you need to compare like this:
Front
Avo wheel rate = (spring rate 350lb + inbuilt damper rate 0lb) x 1.1 nik link ratio = 385 lb wheel rate
Koni wheel rate = (spring rate 300lb + inbuilt damper rate 50lb) x 1.1 nik link ration = 385 lb wheel rate
Rear
AVO wheel rate =(spring rate 600lb + inbuilt damper rate 0lb) x 0.87 non nik link rear end = 522 lb wheel rate
Koni wheel rate =(spring rate 500lb + inbuilt damper rate 50lb) x 0.87 non nik link rear end = 478lb wheel rate.
Right, yes I know the rear ended up slightly softer sprung but I wasn't sure what the actual poundage of the damper was and just made a guess, in reality the front is still a little stiff although the rear is about right, so maybe the damper rate is nearer 75 lbs rather than 50 lbs.
The other issue is that I was running a more stable front tyre on the test so have no issues going down slightly more on spring rate at the front as the tyre is now doing less of the suspension deflection work.
Over the last few years I have run the AVOs at all sorts of settings and springs and never did it feel as composed as this first test on the konis.
Front
Avo wheel rate = (spring rate 350lb + inbuilt damper rate 0lb) x 1.1 nik link ratio = 385 lb wheel rate
Koni wheel rate = (spring rate 300lb + inbuilt damper rate 50lb) x 1.1 nik link ration = 385 lb wheel rate
Rear
AVO wheel rate =(spring rate 600lb + inbuilt damper rate 0lb) x 0.87 non nik link rear end = 522 lb wheel rate
Koni wheel rate =(spring rate 500lb + inbuilt damper rate 50lb) x 0.87 non nik link rear end = 478lb wheel rate.
Right, yes I know the rear ended up slightly softer sprung but I wasn't sure what the actual poundage of the damper was and just made a guess, in reality the front is still a little stiff although the rear is about right, so maybe the damper rate is nearer 75 lbs rather than 50 lbs.
The other issue is that I was running a more stable front tyre on the test so have no issues going down slightly more on spring rate at the front as the tyre is now doing less of the suspension deflection work.
Over the last few years I have run the AVOs at all sorts of settings and springs and never did it feel as composed as this first test on the konis.
Edited by Martin B on Thursday 23 February 22:55
Edited by Martin B on Thursday 23 February 22:56
Edited by Martin B on Thursday 23 February 22:57
Martin B said:
Unfortunately if I had put the same springs on the konis it would have been even less of a direct comparison as the wheel rate would have rocketed. The thing is, with the AVOs there is no additional spring rate, where the shock stops without a spring fited is where it stops even mid stroke, the konis, even without springs fitted extend fully and take considerable pressure to compress, even without springs fitted (yes I know I repeated this bit but it is the crucks of the whole matter here!). This is not the valving, it is the mono tube design with the nitrogen charged piston at the base causing this. To get the same wheel rate you need to compare like this:
Front
Avo wheel rate = (spring rate 350lb + inbuilt damper rate 0lb) x 1.1 nik link ratio = 385 lb wheel rate
Koni wheel rate = (spring rate 300lb + inbuilt damper rate 50lb) x 1.1 nik link ration = 385 lb wheel rate
Rear
AVO wheel rate =(spring rate 600lb + inbuilt damper rate 0lb) x 0.87 non nik link rear end = 522 lb wheel rate
Koni wheel rate =(spring rate 500lb + inbuilt damper rate 50lb) x 0.87 non nik link rear end = 478lb wheel rate.
Right, yes I know the rear ended up slightly softer sprung but I wasn't sure what the actual poundage of the damper was and just made a guess, in reality the front is still a little stiff although the rear is about right, so maybe the damper rate is nearer 75 lbs rather than 50 lbs.
The other issue is that I was running a more stable front tyre on the test so have no issues going down slightly more on spring rate at the front as the tyre is now doing less of the suspension deflection work.
Over the last few years I have run the AVOs at all sorts of settings and springs and never did it feel as composed as this first test on the konis.
Ah, I see.Front
Avo wheel rate = (spring rate 350lb + inbuilt damper rate 0lb) x 1.1 nik link ratio = 385 lb wheel rate
Koni wheel rate = (spring rate 300lb + inbuilt damper rate 50lb) x 1.1 nik link ration = 385 lb wheel rate
Rear
AVO wheel rate =(spring rate 600lb + inbuilt damper rate 0lb) x 0.87 non nik link rear end = 522 lb wheel rate
Koni wheel rate =(spring rate 500lb + inbuilt damper rate 50lb) x 0.87 non nik link rear end = 478lb wheel rate.
Right, yes I know the rear ended up slightly softer sprung but I wasn't sure what the actual poundage of the damper was and just made a guess, in reality the front is still a little stiff although the rear is about right, so maybe the damper rate is nearer 75 lbs rather than 50 lbs.
The other issue is that I was running a more stable front tyre on the test so have no issues going down slightly more on spring rate at the front as the tyre is now doing less of the suspension deflection work.
Over the last few years I have run the AVOs at all sorts of settings and springs and never did it feel as composed as this first test on the konis.
Edited by Martin B on Thursday 23 February 22:55
Edited by Martin B on Thursday 23 February 22:56
Edited by Martin B on Thursday 23 February 22:57
For aero reasons, I run with spring rates and suspension frequencies that may make one's eyes water (they do mine) so tend to eschew significant damping on bump (dampers just can't react fast enough due to viscous effects) and only apply some on rebound.
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