The love affair is nearly over

[V12 Migaloo]

I have been keeping my head low recently, due to the following and the fact I was away on business/pleasure.
The story goes that I have (as many on here know) a XJ V12 Series III, bought new by my father in 85. Since then I've bought a X300 (4.0 Sport) X308 (3.2 Sport) S-TYpe (modern Mark I 3.0) S-type (2.5 auto) and several X-types diesels.
Anyone who reads my postings know me as a die hard Jaguar enthusiast and possibly one of their best ambassadors. I have convince many people to buy one when they were going to opt for ze Germans..
2 years ago I opted out of the company car scheme and bought 2006 XJ-D with just over 30k on the clock.
Despite initial restricted performance issues (which were all sorted) the car has given me 2 years of stress free motoring, in comfort with a good return of MPG.
At 40'000 miles I paid for a 90k intensive service. 6 weeks ago at 60K I paid for a 120'000 miles intensive service, all Main dealer. The car is as good as new, looked after like it was a classic, driven with great respect and the fact that this is my money in this car. One week after this £600 intensive service the big end bearing went.... BANG!
Guy salmon (Thames Ditton, who have been brilliant by the way) investigated the knock and confirm my worse fears. They offered to stump up 20% of the cost. Jaguar after much deliberation offered to pay 25%, but this means that I am still going to have to pay around £6k on a car thats only worth £7k, £8k at best.
Before my trip away I contacted Jaguar Customer service and explained everything as above. I have just recieved the phone call I was dreading and they will not contribute anything more to this case. I'm now left with a car that requires 80% of its value spent on making it work.
This has totaly wrecked my enthusiam in Jaguar and cars in the whole. I'm going to have to sell my V12 just to pay for this repair and then I might as well sell 20 years of Classic car magazines at the same time too and buy a freaking Lexus or a Phaeton. But I only want to buy a Jag...
I really feel sick to the core.
I've given jag customer service one last chance to at least stump up something more. I'm not expecting to get away scot free, but it makes no sence to spend 5 grand on a car thats worth only eight at best.
Hopefully I have some positive news in the morning. I'll keep you all posted.

[a8hex]

Ouch!

[P700DEE]

Sorry to hear about your tale of woe but you might be advised to avoid diesels if moving away from Jaguar as the issue is a diesel problem not a Jaguar one. From my reading of the forums if you don't drive big miles with long journeys then a diesel can cost a lot more than a petrol (nice V8 in the Jag too ) Have you looked to just getting te engine fixed or swapped at an independent ? Should be £££ cheaper

[Blackpuddin]

There are a number of Jags on ebay with 'great, apart from bottom end knock', seems particularly common on the 3.0 petrol.

[V12 Migaloo]

I'm doing about 20k a year.... the problem is not DPF regen contaminated oil but dodgy design and cheap components, the bearings can spin sometimes... Its really knocked back my enthusiam hence why I will have to consider a Lexus..big shame really.

Edited by V12 Migaloo on Friday 17th May 10:30

[V12 Migaloo]

P700DEE said:

Sorry to hear about your tale of woe but you might be advised to avoid diesels if moving away from Jaguar as the issue is a diesel problem not a Jaguar one. From my reading of the forums if you don't drive big miles with long journeys then a diesel can cost a lot more than a petrol (nice V8 in the Jag too ) Have you looked to just getting te engine fixed or swapped at an independent ? Should be £££ cheaper

You cant get a rebuild or get them repaired as jag dont sell the internals, believe me I've look at all avenues.
I think the dealer (Guy salman, Sytner Group) is going to pull a rabbit out of the hat and help a bit more. If anything I've learned that in the future only buy from a decent group, retain them as your servicing agents and thankfully they will look after you.

[hidetheelephants]

V12 Migaloo said:

I'm going to have to sell my V12 just to pay for this repair and then I might as well sell 20 years of Classic car magazines at the same time too and buy a freaking Lexus or a Phaeton. But I only want to buy a Jag...
I really feel sick to the core.

NOOOOOOO!

[jith]

V12 Migaloo said:

P700DEE said:

Sorry to hear about your tale of woe but you might be advised to avoid diesels if moving away from Jaguar as the issue is a diesel problem not a Jaguar one. From my reading of the forums if you don't drive big miles with long journeys then a diesel can cost a lot more than a petrol (nice V8 in the Jag too ) Have you looked to just getting te engine fixed or swapped at an independent ? Should be £££ cheaper

You cant get a rebuild or get them repaired as jag dont sell the internals, believe me I've look at all avenues.
I think the dealer (Guy salman, Sytner Group) is going to pull a rabbit out of the hat and help a bit more. If anything I've learned that in the future only buy from a decent group, retain them as your servicing agents and thankfully they will look after you.

Can I suggest you look at it in a rather more critical manner with a dose of reality thrown in.

You bought this Jaguar with only 30k on the clock and it had issues even at that mileage. You have spent considerable sums on it to have it serviced in a Jaguar dealer and paid for them to carry out more intensive servicing than normal.

The crankshaft bearings fail at only 60k, and you think you're being looked after?

I wouldn't recommend a modern diesel to anyone, particularly a Jaguar. They are constant expense and if you have a major problem it will empty your bank account.

J

[V12 Migaloo]

hidetheelephants said:

V12 Migaloo said:

I'm going to have to sell my V12 just to pay for this repair and then I might as well sell 20 years of Classic car magazines at the same time too and buy a freaking Lexus or a Phaeton. But I only want to buy a Jag...
I really feel sick to the core.

NOOOOOOO!

Yes, perhaps a bit too hasty here on selling the 12.

[johnnnnnnyy]

Have you had a look on EBay for a second hand engine, there seems to be a few around from breakers that offer a warranty. I'd be inclined to buy the engine, and get the dealer to fit it as part of the deal.

[andyps]

johnnnnnnyy said:

Have you had a look on EBay for a second hand engine, there seems to be a few around from breakers that offer a warranty. I'd be inclined to buy the engine, and get the dealer to fit it as part of the deal.

I think that is what I would be looking at doing, and then maybe cutting losses and changing to a petrol engined Jag. Sorry to hear about the problems though.

[V12 Migaloo]

andyps said:

johnnnnnnyy said:

Have you had a look on EBay for a second hand engine, there seems to be a few around from breakers that offer a warranty. I'd be inclined to buy the engine, and get the dealer to fit it as part of the deal.

I think that is what I would be looking at doing, and then maybe cutting losses and changing to a petrol engined Jag. Sorry to hear about the problems though.

I'm going to cut my loses and buy a V70 AWD 2013. Sad but Jaguar have proved that their not at all interested in my loyalty. Real shame.

[jimattfield]

So, if I have understood correctly, a manufacturer offers to pay 25% of the engine replacement costs on a seven year old car and you feel harshly treated? I just know this won't go down well, but good luck trying to find a Volvo dealer who would do that (been there). Personally, I wouldn't offer you anything after seven years, you can't hold Jaguar responsible for the repair cost/depreciation curve. Take the advice given, get a used engine and continue your years of enjoyable Jaguar motoring. You are very unlikely to get an offer like that from most (if any) others.

[anonymous-user]

jimattfield said:

So, if I have understood correctly, a manufacturer offers to pay 25% of the engine replacement costs on a seven year old car and you feel harshly treated? I just know this won't go down well, but good luck trying to find a Volvo dealer who would do that (been there). Personally, I wouldn't offer you anything after seven years, you can't hold Jaguar responsible for the repair cost/depreciation curve. Take the advice given, get a used engine and continue your years of enjoyable Jaguar motoring. You are very unlikely to get an offer like that from most (if any) others.

What an odd thought that the manufacturer is not responsible for the way their products depreciate or for how long their engines should last.

Personally, if I had a well maintained diesel that failed like this after such low mileage, I would do exactly the same. It's one of the main reasons Jaguars do suffer high levels of depreciation, and is entirely within the responsibility and control of the manufacturer.

Mind you, I wouldn't go for a Volvo...........

[Triple7]

Soz, not much to offer, but why did you not get the Jag Warranty?

Get it fixed

[V12 Migaloo]

jimattfield said:

So, if I have understood correctly, a manufacturer offers to pay 25% of the engine replacement costs on a seven year old car and you feel harshly treated? I just know this won't go down well, but good luck trying to find a Volvo dealer who would do that (been there). Personally, I wouldn't offer you anything after seven years, you can't hold Jaguar responsible for the repair cost/depreciation curve. Take the advice given, get a used engine and continue your years of enjoyable Jaguar motoring. You are very unlikely to get an offer like that from most (if any) others.

First of all JIM, 25% from Jaguar is a slap in the face and all they are doing is cutting their profit margin on the naked engine sitting on a shelf collecting dust, these items get written off in 18 months or so on the accounts anyway.
Do You think it acceptable that after 60'000 miles, with every single service at a Jag main dealer, and the last 2 being Intensive services that the bottom end on a large capacity diesel fails terminally. What gaurentees that this wont happen on a used engine... and who the F..k would spend 3 K on a used motor on a car worth what 8k at best?? Only a muppet would do that Jim. I rather take that 3K and put it toward something else.
Now I'm a huge Jag fan, I even rate myself as probably one of their best ambassadors, I travel world wide, dealing with CEO's, Engineering directors and conversations always moves on to A) women, B) Golf C) Cars. I've litterally lost count how many people in the UK, Italy, Germany, Japan, USA et al have bought a JLR product because I've opened their eyes... but If Jaguar Customer Service think they can flippently treat someone who has specified the purchase of 10 new Jags in less then 20 years, has a show winning V12 and was seriously considering a X351, in the way the I've been treated then they have got another thing coming.
Yes, I too find it highly unlikely that that would happen with any other manufacturer. However in 25 years I have not had any mechanical issues with any of the cars I have ever bought, (electrical yes (Thanks Beemer) and I've driven all my company hacks hard... I had a volvo S60 D5 for 3 years (on lease) and hardly opened the bonnet, I did about 80K and I think I only had the first free service and one at 40k, aprt from a split hose I had no issues what so ever. The however Jag was driven & mantained with care and utmost respect.
The fact the the servicing dealer is doing all they can (more or less offering to do the labour free of charge) is the only saving grace for the marque here. Guy Salmon and the Sytner group take a bow, they have done all they can.
It feels as if I've been puched in the kidneys by JLR customer service, hence its going to take a long time before I even consider whiping my ar*e with their brochures.
The wife will have to stay with the Jeep, theirs no way I'll buy her a Disco 4 now and I'll just look at X351 owners now with slight envy but thats Ok. Theirs no way I'm investing in a company that has no regard for customer loyalty.

[jimattfield]

REALIST123 said:

What an odd thought that the manufacturer is not responsible for the way their products depreciate or for how long their engines should last.

Personally, if I had a well maintained diesel that failed like this after such low mileage, I would do exactly the same. It's one of the main reasons Jaguars do suffer high levels of depreciation, and is entirely within the responsibility and control of the manufacturer.

Well, I'll just have to disagree with you on that.

[jimattfield]

V12 Migaloo said:

First of all JIM, 25% from Jaguar is a slap in the face ...

Well, good luck with that. I don't suppose JLR will even notice whether you buy your other half a Discovery or not. Personally, one less rolling road block to hold me up! I don't really get that you think you deserve preferential treatment because you have a nice Jag and have said many nice things about Jags to other people either. In fact that may be why you have the offer that you have. If it doesn't work for you financially, well, them's the breaks when buying used. You can read horror stories about some models in most manufacturers ranges (in fact I do recall a lot I saw a while back about auto boxes in some Volvo 4WD models).

Good luck with if you go with Volvo, for myself I had two fairly major issues with a C70 T5, the first 2 months out of the three year warranty they bore the cost, the second 11 months out of warranty I got zip, despite it being a known weakness and yes, the car was well treated and maintained by the supplying dealer who I got it from new. You get a slap in the face occasionally but in the big picture it's not a life-changer. Deal with it and move on, stick with Jag if you are as much a fan as you claim and enjoy more pleasure. I'm not a fan of oil-burners so I don't know if it is characteristic of the breed but if it is find something else in the range. I stuck with my T5 until I replaced it with a Sovereign and am on my 4th Jag in 3 years (no, not problems, I like upgrades) but still bought my wife a C70 rag-top. I speak highly of Jags to anyone who will listen but I don't expect anything special should the worst happen. Good luck to you whichever way you call it.

[V12 Migaloo]

Thanks Jim for your pearls of wisdom, I am dealing with it and I'm moving on thanks. I need an oil burner because I drive much further then the cattery and back. Even the X351 3.0D has similar issues with bottom end bearing rotation. I dont expect preferential treatment, buying 10 Jags is obviously something thats not important, just a modicom of acknowledgement and understanding from the manufacturer to hold their hands up to the fact their is a design fault and help pay a significant part of the problem, 25% is not, it's purely a token amount. But nor do I dont expect to get away scot free, I would've settled for 50%. But nor do I expect a large capacity diesel to have terminal failures. When our 2.5 S-TYpe V6 was leaking coolant through the head Jaguar paid for and swapped the entire drive train FOC and this was some 2 years out of warrenty. They obviously wanted customer retention then, now JLR obviously dont need it. No JLR wont notice, so fk em and yes I am a big Jag fan as professed but I will not blindly purchase something at the expense of losing my self respect. I see that you dont have that kind of a problem. Bully for you.

Edited by V12 Migaloo on Friday 17th May 10:29

[Fat Albert]

I agree that 25% after 7 years is a good offer, much more than the Porsche 996 and Boxster owners got after the Intermediate Shaft and rear main seal failures and other issues on the water-cooled flat 6.

I got nothing from SAAB when my 6 year old 9 5 V6 let go a few years ago