Possible downsize from a C63 to an XF - What do I look for?

[V88Dicky]

They were an option I think. It's the R type interior. Very nice it is too

[V88Dicky]

tch911 said:

See you.

Raise you ;-)



Aw...c'mon, it is a Friday! Happy bank holiday weekend all

Very nice!

The photo of ours will give you an idea of the size, it's parked next to our X-Type which is closer in size to the C- Class

[tch911]

Thanks, that's a useful comparison. Going to try some XFs this weekend!

[V88Dicky]

There's a supercharged V6 petrol, but they're probably out of budget. Good blend of economy and performance. Enjoy the test drive(s)

[DangerMonkey]

tch911 said:

DangerMonkey said:

I was in a very similar position (newborn but came from an Aston) needing the space

- V8 or diesel V6?
I went for the V6 in XFS form, plenty fast enough, good economy and more to choose from

- What is the interior like in terms of modernity, gadgetry, bluetooth, etc?
Good, screen is a bit laggy on the pre face lifts.

- Are they slightly old-mannish? (I'm 35).
Nah. It's got blingy wheels. I'm mid thirties

- What is the rear passenger space like?
Good. With the leather seats though I was worried about the baby seat damaging them easily so knocked up a cover (well my mother did). The isofix fittings are very very fiddly at first

- What is the boot space like?
Long

- What are the must-have options?
Not a lot, portfolio onwards are well specced. Wish I had the rear view camera in hindsight. It's just about impossible to retrofit.

Other stuff - Incidentally the post face lifts have an irritating stop start that kicks in when you're trying to park. They do get the 8 speed box though.

Another great review, thanks. So do all cars have Bluetooth and Phone Prep, etc? What is the highest model line, do they do an R-line or Sport-line or anything like that?

You're welcome. Turns out I don't know my own car well enough! I've actually got the premium luxury trim which is just fine. I've also got the Jaguarsport interior seat option (same as xfr and new portfolios?) which I can definitely recommend.

Also, not many cars have the 20" space saver spare - they're expensive if you want one so if you buy from a dealer see if they can swap one in as part of the deal.

[tch911]

DangerMonkey said:

...Jaguarsport interior seat option (same as xfr and new portfolios?)...

Iiiiiiiiiinteresting! Thank you, that's a useful option to look out for.

Seen a peach of an XFR nudging in under 20k: http://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/used-cars/j...

Must think Diesel. Must think Diesel. Must think Diesel.

Dammit

[tch911]

Also. What is one of these? Apart from obviously being a 5.0 V8. But not an R.

http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/2015...

I think this is a little grown-up spec wise for me!

[V88Dicky]

tch911 said:

Also. What is one of these? Apart from obviously being a 5.0 V8. But not an R.

http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/2015...

I think this is a little grown-up spec wise for me!

Same as ours, save for the standard seats. Very good spec and price otherwise!

[The Leaper]

Did you not read V88Dicky's and also my posts earlier above? In my view this is the best of all the XF models: it's very fast and yet nicely unstressed. There's not many around.

R.

[Shar2]

I've recently bought a 3.0ltr diesel XF Premium Luxury in Caviar with Barley and Truffle interior. She drives like a dream, quick, quiet and on a recent trip from Middlesex to Yeovilton it showed 46mpg. Absolutely love it and it makes a worthy companion to my modified XK8.

[tch911]

So I test drive a 3.0d Portfolio on the weekend and I have to say, I wasn't left blown away :-(

It is quiet and comfy and relatively quick but when I got back to the parking lot and there was my C63, I just wanted a bit more presence, something the Jag doesn't really have. Grace yes, spades of it. The handling is good but a bit wallowy and it really did feel huge when manouvering it around.

I was also amazed at how far the boot went into the car, how on earth are you supposed to reach things that roll all the way to the back!

Flame me, but tested back-to-back with a 4.0d BMW X5 M-sport (stupid name!) it felt the weaker link. Maybe I should test drive on of the V8s!

[jamieduff1981]

Drive a diesel old-fart spec jelly suspensioned C-class back to back with the AMG and you'll be horrified.

Same applies to XFs. Drive an R or an R-S for much taughter handling and strong performance.

[fatboy b]

tch911 said:

So I test drive a 3.0d Portfolio on the weekend and I have to say, I wasn't left blown away :-(

It is quiet and comfy and relatively quick but when I got back to the parking lot and there was my C63, I just wanted a bit more presence, something the Jag doesn't really have. Grace yes, spades of it. The handling is good but a bit wallowy and it really did feel huge when manouvering it around.

I was also amazed at how far the boot went into the car, how on earth are you supposed to reach things that roll all the way to the back!

Flame me, but tested back-to-back with a 4.0d BMW X5 M-sport (stupid name!) it felt the weaker link. Maybe I should test drive on of the V8s!

I think you're confusing performance with presence. c63 will always win performance. Presence? No way.

[a8hex]

jamieduff1981 said:

Drive a diesel old-fart spec jelly suspensioned C-class back to back with the AMG and you'll be horrified.

Same applies to XFs. Drive an R or an R-S for much taughter handling and strong performance.

Isn't there a sportier spec diesel with firmer suspension?

[jamieduff1981]

a8hex said:

jamieduff1981 said:

Drive a diesel old-fart spec jelly suspensioned C-class back to back with the AMG and you'll be horrified.

Same applies to XFs. Drive an R or an R-S for much taughter handling and strong performance.

Isn't there a sportier spec diesel with firmer suspension?

There is the 275ps S but it's still not a patch on the R or R-S dynamically. It still has an open differential for a start. It tries to get around diesel lack of response by front loading the accelerator pedal in dynamic mode. It feels sprightly when pootling around but floor it from mid-way and you realise you've already had most of what it has to give.

The supercharged V8s are a different proposition. I do believe the XF is a fundamentally better chassis than the C-class. That's just not something Mercedes are much good at. They can do comfort or handling but have a thin history of achieving both. The XF is beautifully balanced but it needs the right set up to get a comparable result to the AMG.

The XF OP drove was more comparable to a C250 CDI, which isn't a lot of fun.

[Riccardino]

tch911 said:

It is quiet and comfy and relatively quick but when I got back to the parking lot and there was my C63, I just wanted a bit more presence, something the Jag doesn't really have.

Based on what you say here

tch911 said:

Maybe I should test drive on of the V8s!

I am rather confused regarding what do you mean with presence!
What do you mean in terms of presence? Spoilers and sporty look or a quicker engine? If that is the case that is not really the spirit of a Jag but if that is what you are looking for than just try an XFR or even better an XFR-S and you will also have that.
In term of presence the XF is certainly stronger than a Mercedes C (also the XF is usually compared vs a Mercedes E while the XE is competing with the C class)
You talk about downsize in the title so I assume you are only into engine sizes (the XF is certainly bigger than a C class as it is same category than a E Class
Even so the most powerful V6 diesel should give you sufficient torque and power to enjoy the drive (but more as a tourer than a sprinter).

tch911 said:

Grace yes, spades of it. The handling is good but a bit wallowy and it really did feel huge when manouvering it around.

Guess that is expected if you jump down from a C63 AMG and go to a bigger and more comfy car like an XF diesel. Strange you found it wallowy but again if you want a sport car then you should test the XFR or the XFR-S

tch911 said:

Flame me, but tested back-to-back with a 4.0d BMW X5 M-sport (stupid name!) it felt the weaker link.

You are flaming yourself if you are not saying regarding what the XF is weaker. Not an usual comparison vs a boring german SUV

Edited by Riccardino on Wednesday 27th May 08:55

[tch911]

Thanks to all and apologies if I have offended anyone. I am sure there would be similar responses if I went into the Merc forum and started eulogising about my XFR having just driven a C250CDI.

To answer some queries.

- The downsize is mostly a financial one and amusingly, actually a requirement for a little more space! I have just bought a new house and want to take some equity out of my AMG. A newborn has also required some extra space in the back so that my 6ft wife can put her seat all the way back. In hindisght, I probably should have changed the title of the thread.

- By presence, I mean from a more aggressive purposeful way. As I am sure you know, the AMG has extended arches, domed bonnet and more aggressive bumpers than the standard Sport C-Class. It sits lower and wider on larger wheels. The Jaguar XF in any specification has presence in that it is a very handsome car, especially in estate format. I would however counter, in this instance of comparison, it is not on the level from an 'aggressive purposeful' level until you get to the XFR or XFR-S. Horses for courses of course. You will note that I added that the car I drove had 'grace, spades of it' so my comment should always be taken in context. On it's own merit, not stood next to the C63, the XF has presence.

- I test drove the BMW as an X5 is also under consideration, along with an Audi Q5. Everybody has different requirements for a car and in this instance I am looking for something to replace my AMG (a car that I dearly love) for someting that will work in rural Sussex as well as it will on motorways. A car that I can buy for anything up to £20k without having to resort to something older than about 6 or 7 years or indeed more than about 75,000 miles. It would be good for that car to be a little more parsimonius than my AMG which struggles to better 20mpg and whilst I am stepping down from a 487bhp V8, I do still have a 472bhp V8 to get my jollies at the weekends. An XFR would be a very fine motorcar but as I am sure, any of you married chaps know, sometimes, it is politically the right move to be considering the Diesel models over the petrol models when this is to be a household vehicle.

- It was actually a 275 bhp S that I test drove. From a straight forward handling and performance basis, the X5, in this instance on a open-bends country road just outside of Rye had the better of the XFSd. In manouvering the vehicle around the car park, the XF felt wider visually out of the windscreen and longer as well. On the road, the car was certainly more comfortable on the road but the lateral roll through corners was not on the same level as the X5 which just felt more planted. Acceleration in sport mode, again the X5 felt quicker which may be understandable given that it is carrying an additional 31bhp (although without looking in the comics, I imagined the X5 to carry more weight, perhaps it has more torque?). And of course, both cars were left wanting compared to the AMG but trust me when I say that I would prefer their ride when it comes to crashing through the poor surface of Sussex roads when you are on the AMG suspension.

- I know from many years of reading EVO, Pistonheads and watching TV/Youtube that the XF in its own right is a very comfortable and fine car. I also know that the R and R-S models handle very well indeed in comparisons with the M5, RS6, et al. I think comparing the XFR and the C63 is an unfair one and I will cease to do so. The C63 in comparison with it's peers the M3 and the RS4 is a most amusing proposition and I would anybody to seriously consider one if you were in the market for either the Audi or the BMW.

I am sorry for not putting enough time into the previous replies, you have been all been very kind with your advice so far. I would love to have a Jaguar XF-R Sportbrake in the driveway but alas this will have to wait until they become a little more affordable.

Now, shall we just back onto chatting about V8s, something I think we all agree on!!!!

Edited by tch911 on Wednesday 27th May 10:13

[Riccardino]

Now it is much more clear what you mean and what are you looking for

Particularly if you compare very different cars a lot has to do with very personal assessment and it does not make a lot of sense to discuss the feelings for example XF vs X5 because that is very subjective.
All the best for your choice!!!
For the C63 it will be interesting to see how the XE R will be as a potential competitor


PS: if you want the XFR it has to be not the sedan, for the wagon you can only buy the XFR-S (at least in the pre aluminium cars as it might be they will make one)

[a8hex]

tch911 said:

...but the lateral roll through corners was not on the same level as the X5

I guess coming from the C63 you are used to a very different feeling ride to the way the Jaguar is working. I've not driven an MB with AMG suspension, the nearest I've been is a the E-Class with "Sport" suspension, which to my mind was way to harsh. Harder than my XKR (in fact with the silly wheels the dealer had on it, it tramlined worse than my XK150 did on cross plies). I know the AMG and "Sport" settings aren't likely to be comparable, I recall years back an column by LJK Setright in Car (so it must have been years ago) talking about how AMG managed to get the suspension to work so much better than the sportier non AMG MBs.
If you want that kind of ride I think you will need to look at the XFR.

But it is really a question of what you're used to. You would definitely feel that my X300 XJ6 wallows, compared to LadyB8's E-Class (not "Sport") it does have more lateral roll, but whereas her car is very capable in the corners, it certainly doesn't encourage you to throw it around, nor does it reward you when you do. I find the XJ6 far more fun to corner enthusiastically, and while it leans more, unless you are in sharp S bends that doesn't make any real difference.

As to diesels, the engine characteristics are very different to those of a petrol engine. LadyB8's is a 350CDi so I guess comparable to the faster of the Jaguar V6 diesels. It has loads of low end torque, in traffic it means it goes immediately when you ask it to, but what it doesn't do is build like a good petrol engine. My good lady prefers it like that most of the time. I'm OK with it, I wouldn't chose that as my car, but I can see where she's coming from. As you say, you've got another toy to play with too.

Ultimately we all look for different things in our cars, life would be terribly dull if everyone liked the same cars.

[Bincenzo]

Well, FWIW, I've just test driven the 3.0D Portfolio S and bought one on the spot. I was very impressed with the power delivery, chassis and particularly the interior and comfort. You really have to be careful when comparing vehicles, as some just don't make any sense. I, for example, am replacing an Aston V8 Vantage, but I wouldn't compare the 2, as it is ludicrous to do so. Anyway, pick it up on Thursday so I'll let you know how the drive home is.