F-type V6 S BHP
Discussion
bordseye said:
Unfortunately only Jaguar can tell us unless some member is willing and able to remove his engine and put it on an engine dyno.
Even that isn't going to help. The engine is dependent on the management system and that is dependent on the rest of the electronic gubbins in the car (try asking the people who've tried to switch out the gearbox to make a manual version of the X100 XK8/XKR). bordseye said:
Interesting links but they dont explain why the V8 was on target and the V6 not so. I dont for a minute think that the maker of a sports car would sell a big V8 whilst underclaiming its power output. Thats not life.
Not sports car, but there is quite few dyno runs with XFRs which are higher (20-30bhp) then 510 advertised by Jaguar.That may mean the dynos used have a different fudge factor applied, or used a different gear.
Now, if you had several nominally identical cars and tested them on a single dyno one after the other you would be able to say which was the fittest, but still not come up with an accurate absolute figure.
Now, if you had several nominally identical cars and tested them on a single dyno one after the other you would be able to say which was the fittest, but still not come up with an accurate absolute figure.
ftypical said:
That may mean the dynos used have a different fudge factor applied, or used a different gear.
Now, if you had several nominally identical cars and tested them on a single dyno one after the other you would be able to say which was the fittest, but still not come up with an accurate absolute figure.
That's true....it's just what surprised me a bit, because I usually see bit lower figures.Now, if you had several nominally identical cars and tested them on a single dyno one after the other you would be able to say which was the fittest, but still not come up with an accurate absolute figure.
Anyway, not too bothered about 20hp with +-500 on the tap :-)
Interesting thread on the F Type forum which is discussing another V6S. Performance seems better in the 'real world' than jaguars stats suggest (if the comments regarding the v box times are true).
http://www.ftypeownersclub.co.uk/forum/just-got-my...
http://www.ftypeownersclub.co.uk/forum/just-got-my...
I think there are two measures that you can rely on the wheel HP number from the dyno (the before and after tuning delta) and the numbers from a Vbox, the Vbox is actually all that matters not the theoretical crank figures the UK tuning market seems to be obsessed with, the US tuners all talk about wheel HP not crank and the 60-130 segment in terms of how the car is performing.
Why don't you stick a 'v box' on the car (like the guy on the thread link I posted above did) and do some runs. If you are getting acceleration times the same or even BETTER than the claimed Jaguar times (like he did) then I very much doubt the rolling road is picking up the right numbers. After all it would be a very strange situation getting the correct or better 0-60 times with less power than stated.
paul1962 said:
Is there any more news on this issue ?
Jag came back with something along the lines of that there was not enough airflow in the dyno we used, according to Jag you needed at least 60mph of airflow. Despite Regals dyno producing 100mph of airflow. I don't think Jag were willing to discuss it any further. Bit of a cop out really. Geoff (Ewolg) may post the full explanation if he see's this.Regal autosports dyno gives out correct figures for every other manufacturers car, so I guess Jags F Type V6 range must be 'special'. God could create a rolling road, and Jag would still say it wasn't accurate!
Also this still does not explain why the V8 is on the button, producing 506BHP, surely a V8 would need even greater airflow???
Edited by Dolittle on Tuesday 1st September 09:45
Dolittle said:
Jag came back with something along the lines of that there was not enough airflow in the dyno we used, according to Jag you needed at least 60mph of airflow. Despite Regals dyno producing 100mph of airflow. I don't think Jag were willing to discuss it any further. Bit of a cop out really. Geoff (Ewolg) may post the full explanation if he see's this.
Regal autosports dyno gives out correct figures for every other manufacturers car, so I guess Jags F Type V6 range must be 'special'. God could create a rolling road, and Jag would still say it wasn't accurate!
Also this still does not explain why the V8 is on the button, producing 506BHP, surely a V8 would need even greater airflow???
You still to be failing to grasp some of the very important 'facts' people have explained to you in this thread about rolling road dynos.Regal autosports dyno gives out correct figures for every other manufacturers car, so I guess Jags F Type V6 range must be 'special'. God could create a rolling road, and Jag would still say it wasn't accurate!
Also this still does not explain why the V8 is on the button, producing 506BHP, surely a V8 would need even greater airflow???
Edited by Dolittle on Tuesday 1st September 09:45
JonV8V said:
I thought of this thread when the VW story started to break. I've not researched the figures but retuning the engine to get better co2 and mpg figures might be an advantage to them? Or is that just a conspiracy theory ?
I've not looked at the full details of how the test worked that VW have been cheating. One thought was that there is one test were they measure the NOx figures and another test were they measure the consumption and there emission figures. You get NOx when the engine is at high temperatures. I don't mean over heating, I mean the actual combustion. This is also when you get most power and better economy.It could be that the test is stressing the engine so little that they can afford to drop the combustion temperature to limit NOx production without causing too much impact of the economy figure, clearly power isn't an issue at this point.
I think the V6 Jaguar problem here is probably very different. The posting by "elementad" suggests that out of the road the V6 isn't short on power, but the rolling road figures can't get close to the on the road numbers. I would be nice if someone from Jaguar would talk about why. We seem to have lost the Jaguar engineers who used to pop up here occasionally.
I wonder how long till other manufactures are implicated in the same way as VW. I find it impossible to believe they are the only ones doing something like this. The official test might be very limited and as such easy to game. But all the car makers test each others cars and test them with incredible thoroughness, so the other manufacturers must have known. So if they knew why did they keep quiet? Brotherly Love? I don't think so. If they'd been happy to have their own figures gone threw with a fine toothed comb they'd have had a quiet word in someone's shell like. Well that's my conspiracy theory and now I'm off to take my black helicopter off for a quick spin.
It does seem that the tail wags the dog. Teaching in schools is focusing the learning to pass the exam at the end, rather than educating to a standard and that standard being tested to assure compliance. Same with emissions, we are not getting fuel savings for the benefit of the Planet and consumers pocket, but in order to pass a test. The test itself trying to force saving the planet. I guess motivation is required. I would be surprised if VW are on their own in this, as any slight gain in this ruthless world of global business, can make or break businesses....we shall see.
As for JLR, I am noticing a change in culture since the sale to TATA, the product has certainly been cheapened across all brands and models within groups. I hope in their rush to keep up with the big boys they don't lose sight, that big isn't necessarily better, niche can be cool and very profitable.
As for JLR, I am noticing a change in culture since the sale to TATA, the product has certainly been cheapened across all brands and models within groups. I hope in their rush to keep up with the big boys they don't lose sight, that big isn't necessarily better, niche can be cool and very profitable.
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