Old cheap X308 Jags..

Old cheap X308 Jags..

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Discussion

GreenArrow

Original Poster:

3,551 posts

116 months

Wednesday 1st July 2015
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are they money pits or a canny buy? Always fancied an old XJ Jag and right now a grand buys you a late 90s XJ6 or XJ8....

jas xjr

11,309 posts

238 months

Wednesday 1st July 2015
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You will read about various maladies elsewhere on this site by some very knowledgeable people. What made my '99 xjr uneconomic to repair was RUST.
Had the car for over ten years ,nothing major went wrong with it. MOT failure was pretty much all down to corrosion. Not really seen much mention of this online but my local garage told me it was very common in the x308.
Buy one,makes you feel good.

I still have my not failure parked up in the hope of acquiring a car with a blown engine and a nice shell...

Jaguar steve

9,232 posts

209 months

Thursday 2nd July 2015
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They can be either. You'll be lucky to get a really sound X308 for a grand so I'd look at the previous 6 cyl X300 on that budget. They are nowhere near as quick or refined as the V8 X308 and use a bit more fuel but providing you can find one that's not turned to brown dust underneath they are generally more robust and carry high miles and neglect better than the V8.

X300. Very robust and tough 3.2 and 4.0 engines and a rare 6.0 V12. Mostly auto but there was a 5 speed manual option. Crude 4 speed auto gearboxes. Check for corrosion absolutely everywhere underneath and bottoms of wings - inner and outer - and round screens. Check front tyres for uneven wear, check braking action for vibration and pulling, listen for any clonks or rattles from suspension. Make sure all the electrics work - the clock LCD probably wont - including remote locking.

Headlinings sag, paint lacquer peels, and corners and drivers seats are prone to damage. Parts are cheap enough, there's several Jaguar breakers online and tyres from £80 a corner.

As a general guide mostly the X300 just gets worn and shagged out rather than suffering any spectacularly ruinious failures.

If you want a V8 lick then find a couple more grand and...

The JS X308 Buyers Guide

OVERVIEW

To avoid XJ model confusion the 1997-2002 V8 engined XJ is referred to by its factory designation as the X308. The V8 engine in the 308 is available in a 3.2, 4.0 with VVT and a supercharged 4.0 and all versions are 5 speed auto only. £3000 should buy you a good example of a base 3.2, but the best low mileage cars or high spec ones are priced at up to double that. Engines were revised in late 1999 model year from AJ26 version to AJ27. A car fitted with the revised engine version can be identified by a VIN number ending in five, not six digits. AJ26 cars had weak water pumps, secondary timing chain tensioners, throttle bodies and a Nicasil coating applied directly on the aluminum block bore walls rather than using conventional liners pressed into the block.

ENGINE NICASIL
Some Nicasil coatings suffered from erosion due to a combination of high Sulphur content fuel and repeated short trips. Sulphur maximum allowable limits in petrol were lowered considerably in Jan 2000 so any pre 2000 Nicasil coated V8 engine that's still OK now should be fine forever. Several Nicasil lined engines were changed under warranty so you may find a pre 2000 car with a later steel lined engine fitted - identify this by the presence of a green tag on the head buried at the back of the RH bank and the engine change should also be recorded in the history. Symptoms of bore erosion and loss of compression are poor cold starting, a lumpy idle and heavy oil deposits in the breather system and air intake. Crankcase pressure will be high too – a quick check for this is to slightly lift the oil filler cap at hot idle. There should be little or no internal pressure or fumes escaping. Jaguar dealers can perform a blow by check to determine engine condition. A good condition engine will show less than 25 l/m, anything over 40 l/m will make a good Top Gear coffee table.

ENGINE COOLING
Impellors on AJ26 water pumps can disintegrate giving a loss of efficiency leading to overheating and potential head gasket failure. An early pump can be changed to the later version with a metal, not plastic impellor. The temperature gauge is software driven and is not always an accurate refection of actual coolant temperature.
For an indication of water pump efficiency, remove the coolant header tank cap when the engine is STONE COLD, start up and gently increase engine speed. If the water pump is healthy you should see a steady stream of coolant into the tank from the thin return pipe that runs back from the front of the engine.
You may be able to identify the later type of pump by the presence of a black plastic, not metal gasket, but the only certain way is to remove the pump and have a look. Spring type coolant hose clips can loose tension and allow pipes to blow off and some plastic parts on the hoses, unions and thermostat housing are delicate. It’s worth replacing all the sprung coolant clips with proper Jubilee ones. Check all over for evidence of coolant leaks, particularly around the thermostat/filler cap tower and coolant (valley) pipes underneath the inlet manifold. Occasional auxiliary heater pump failures can lead to no heat output in the cabin at low engine RPM. Cycle the whole climate and a/c system through all vent operations and temperature range. Two types of coolant available for the XJ - don’t mix the later orange long life one with the earlier type.

ENGINE THROTTLE BODIES
AJ26 throttle bodies ought to have been changed to the later design under a factory safety recall. Some of the early bodies suffered from failing actuating motors causing to the engine to cut out completely on the overrun. The later design should have been factory fitted to all cars from VIN 043775 onwards.

SECONDARY TIMING CHAIN TENSIONERS AND CHAINS
The only post AJ26 revision engine issue is the secondary timing chain tensioners. These were revised to a mk 2 version around the same time as the rest of the 1999 engine revisions but the mk 2 type still had a plastic body which can crack or break up leading to slipped or broken chains. Mk 1 tensioners are actuated by engine oil pressure and failure can often be identified by a sharp rattling noise similar to a bicycle chain dragging on the chain guard on a cold start. The mk2 type is permanently tensioned by an integral spring instead which means it’ll usually fail silently.
A permanent solution is to retro-fit the later mk3 version tensioner made with a metal, not plastic body from the later 4.2 incarnation of the V8 engine and the only way to be sure of which tensioners are fitted to an 308 is to either have a receipt with tensioner part numbers C2A1511 and C2A1512 which are the metal bodied type and the required 4 new bolts to fit them on it relating to that particular car or remove the RH cam cover - the LH is a PITA to get off - and have a look. A reddish/orange (mk1) or cream (mk2) plastic tensioner body is bad news, a grey aluminum metal one (mk3) is good.
The cam phasing on the V8 means the timing gear works hard and timing chains can stretch at high mileages or on neglected cars. If this is identified then a full chain and tensioner replacement is required costing up to £1000. If the chains/sprockets and guides are OK then it’s a wise precaution to fit the mk3 secondary tensioners which is a fairly easy DIY job. Tensioners cost around £75 a set plus a couple of quid for new bolts. Cam setting tools for this job and all other special tools needed for any work on a 308 can all be hired from the Jaguar Enthusiasts’ Club. Secondary tensioners can also be changed without any tools by removing the exhaust cam whilst preserving the timing with a tie wrap holding the chain on the ex cam sprocket and easing the tensioners out of location.
Exhaust cam chains slipping one tooth – usually on a cold start - will give a very rough running engine, more than one tooth slipped means exhaust valves will meet pistons.

A good general rule of thumb for engine condition is internal cleanliness. Bright shiny metal inside the oil filler cap and dipstick along with clean oil and no evidence of leaks is a good sign, as is clear coolant that does not smell or taste bitter or acrid.


GEARBOX/ DRIVELINE
All X308s have a “sealed for life” gearbox – ZF unit in the n/a cars and a Mercedes one in the supercharged cars. Loads have failed now - just look on ebay in the non runners or spares and repairs section. Any car that hesitates or engages Drive with a jerk or thump as the engine speed rises has a potential gearbox failure looming. Gear changes should be seamless and quiet and you should be able to play tunes with the throttle, Sport switch and J gate selector. Any car stuck in 4th or 5th is FUBAR’d.
A very faint gear whine may be heard in intermediate gears. Any gearbox issues or concerns are potentially fatal. An oil and filter change may be all that’s needed to cure a gearbox malfunction but that’s never guaranteed.
Ideally the gearbox oil and filter should be changed at 50k then at 25k intervals; it's not a simple drain and refill on the ZF box as the final fill has to be done quickly with the engine running and within a narrow temperature range. There is no conventional dipstick for checking oil level.
The ZF 5 speed box on the n/a cars requires Esso/Mobil longlife LT 71141 fluid also known as Lifeguard Fluid 5 and not conventional Dexron 3. The Mercedes gearbox in the supercharged version is also sealed for life but the same change requirement apply although you can use Dexron 3 in this box and once you have fitted a temporary dipstick it’s a much less complex job to do. Some transmission specialists offer a flush and change service done via the rather fragile oil cooler pipes in the radiator which also gets the oil otherwise retained in the torque converter out.

The same applies to the rear axle. Oil should be changed but there’s no drain plug. Old oil has to be vacuum extracted out of the filler plug. Refill with a API GL5 75 or 85/90 oil. Noisy diffs can be quieted down quite a bit with EP140 or 250 oil.

BODY, PAINT AND CORROSION
Substantially better than earlier cars but 308’s still rust. Look for corrosion round the rear wheel arches, round the front and rear screens especially underneath the screen rubbers in the bottom corners, bottom of the front wings, inner and outer sills and closing panels and most importantly behind the front shocks on both sides. There's a reinforcing plate where the engine sub frame V mount is bolted to the body rail and some cars have corroded badly here. Corrosion around the same area may also be visible in the engine compartment on the top of the body rail around the heads of the two bolts that retain the top of the V mounts. Corrosion here is an MOT fail and a big welding job. Another area to check is the joint between the rear of the front inner wings and the bulkhead. Body and paintwork is otherwise pretty good however some darker coloured cars suffer from peeling lacquer. Bumper corners are susceptible to damage and bumper mounting brackets can corrode.

Lacquer on the XJ8 is soft and easy to scratch with careless washing Providing you can’t actually feel scratches with a thumbnail and the paint colour underneath is OK it’s possible to restore the bodywork to a very good finish with a through clay, polish and wax. Stripe down body flanks if car has one is hand painted and not always completely straight.

INTERIOR
Always leather with different levels of trim and seat design. Wood trim clips on and is easy to change to different type. Driver’s seat back and steering wheels tend to suffer from wear. Head linings can sag. LWB version has more room in back.

SUSPENSION, TYRES AND BRAKES
X308s are hard on suspension and brakes, listen and feel very carefully for any clonking or knocking over bumps and make sure the car comes to a straight judder-free stop under both light and hard braking. A sharp rattle heard and felt through the steering over bumps combined with a little free play in the steering wheel may be a worn crush joint on the lower steering column.

A clattery rattle from the rear is likely to be failed shocks or shock bushes. X308s with weak rear A frame bushes or rear hub pivots will tend to self steer and wander about under hard acceleration.

Feel round the tyres for uneven wear patterns; any suspension wear or bush failure giving incorrect geometry will cause tyres to feather badly and heavy wear in the inside edges is a symptom of excess negative camber from wishbone bush or ball joint failure. Slight and even feathering is normal on the front tyres.

All Jaguar XJs are very sensitive to wheel and tyre imbalances or damage, typically you'll feel a steering wobble between 50-70MPH and possibly vibration through the seat if there are any tyre problems or buckled wheels. A Hunter Roadforce or in situ wheel balance is usually the solution. Incorrect tyre pressures, worn out or cheap budget tyres will severely affect handling and ride. Most X308s exhibit a faint exhaust harmonic around 50 and another one at 65MPH. You might possibly experience a hint of driveline vibration through the body too. Don't expect too much in the way of the legendary Jaguar ride quality either - it's pretty good on touring (black shocks) suspension and 16" wheels but sport suspension cars (green shocks) are stiffer and have a thicker front anti roll bar and one on the rear too which when combined with larger diameter wheels and lower profile tyres gives a hard crashy ride on poor roads. CATS suspension may be fitted as an option to any X308. CATS has electronically controlled valves in the shocks to vary the damping rates depending on driving style. Identify CATS by the presence of a plastic cover over the top of the front shock absorber with a lead going into it.

ELECTRICIAL/ OBD2 DIAGNOSTICS
Electrical systems are generally pretty robust. As with any old car you might have the odd problem so check absolutely everything works. Even the earliest X308 is OBD2 compliant and a £20 code reader plugged into the socket in the driver’s footwell will help diagnosis a lot. Electric aerials are vunerable, there are occasional O2 sensor, airflow meter and brake light switch failures.
XJ’s need a strong battery to avoid random error messages appearing on start up. If you get one – usually TRAC FAIL – the battery is on its way out or needs several days on a trickle charge to bring it back up to full capacity.

BUYING AND LIVING WITH AN XJ
Generally the 1997-2002 XJ8 is a strong car and capable of big mileages if maintained well and not abused or neglected. It's mostly easy enough to DIY and parts are reasonable and in good supply from several independents and the Jaguar Classic Parts scheme. Expect around 26/8 MPG on the motorway, 20/4 round town and mid teens or less if you nail it everywhere. Tyres are around £100/120 a corner in 16" diameter size. The 3.2 is quick enough (0-60 is 8s) the 4.0 is much rarer and does the same in 7.0.

Shortening intervals between servicing and using a genuine fully synthetic oil is worthwhile. It’ll help protect the timing chains and give improved fuel economy. A through rust proofing and full fluid change is a benefit too if you want to preserve the car. Official servicing is annual or 10000 miles. 70k service is the expensive one on n/a cars.

One last thing. A software fault means you should never start an XJ8 from cold and then switch off again straightaway and before allowing the temp gauge to move off the cold section of the scale. Chances are it’ll flood when you next start and wash all the oil of the bores and it’s a right PITA to get it running again.





GreenArrow

Original Poster:

3,551 posts

116 months

Thursday 2nd July 2015
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Wow, thanks!

I get confused by Jags but presume the X300 is the squarer headlight one? Or is that the X40 I am confusing it with?

pete5570

270 posts

171 months

Thursday 2nd July 2015
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XJ40 is the square headlight one. The X300 is almost identical to the X308, the difference being the oval indicators and the chrome on the bumpers are different. The X300s are about 1994 to 1997.

Jaguar steve

9,232 posts

209 months

Friday 3rd July 2015
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GreenArrow said:
Wow, thanks!

I get confused by Jags but presume the X300 is the squarer headlight one? Or is that the X40 I am confusing it with?
All base XJ models since 1968 are badged XJ6 or XJ8 so yes it all gets confusing. People tend to use the factory designations - XJ40 X300 X308 - or talk about Series 1,2 or 3 instead.

Briefly. Series 1 launched in 1968 with new bodystyles and mechanical components from previous models, morphed into Series 2 in 1974 to meet US regs, then restyled by Pinninfarina and designated Series 3 in 1979. All by now using very outdated engines and drivelines Series production stopped in 1986.

Replacement XJ40 launched. All new car with very angular styling with new engines and gearboxes. Refreshed in 1990. This is the range that some variants had rectangular headlights.

X300 launched in 1994 and is basically a reskinned XJ40 with return to much more traditional curvy styling. Interior remained almost identical to XJ40 production stopped in 1997.

X308 launched 1997. Visually almost identical to X300 but with brand new V8, new gearboxes and completely restyled interior.

Principal external differences between X300 and X308 are rectangular front indicators on the 300 and oval ones on the 308, and a full length chrome strip on the 300 bumper and smaller quarter chrome strips on the 308. Rear light lenses and radiator grilles are subtly different between them too.




giblet

8,824 posts

176 months

Wednesday 8th July 2015
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I really want an X308 XJR again, my £1300 one cost way more than that in upkeep but it was a cracking car. Trouble is I want a later X308 in either black or blue with the R1 package, no leaper and cream leather interior or alternatively an XJR100. Both seem to pop up for sale quite rarely and prices aren't exactly cheap. There is an immaculate XJR100 that recently popped on the ph classifieds at a rather high price.

Rust is an issue as has already been mentioned on here. That and the fact that most of the cheap ones will need a good bit of preventative maintenance. Gearbox fluid, supercharger oil etc all adds up.

Edited by giblet on Wednesday 8th July 13:44

jas xjr

11,309 posts

238 months

Wednesday 8th July 2015
quotequote all
giblet said:
I really want an X308 XJR again, my £1300 one cost way more than that in upkeep but it was a cracking car. Trouble is I want a later X308 in either black or blue with the R1 package, no leaper and cream leather interior or alternatively an XJR100. Both seem to pop up for sale quite rarely and prices aren't exactly cheap. There is an immaculate XJR100 that recently popped on the ph classifieds at a rather high price.

Rust is an issue as has already been mentioned on here. That and the fact that most of the cheap ones will need a good bit of preventative maintenance. Gearbox fluid, supercharger oil etc all adds up.

Edited by giblet on Wednesday 8th July 13:44
If that is as clean and tidy as the seller says ,that is a cracking long term buy.

giblet

8,824 posts

176 months

Wednesday 8th July 2015
quotequote all
I guess it is bound to appreciate over time, pity I'm somewhat short of the asking price!

I really like the look of this one it seems to be a similar spec just missing the red stitching plus the steering wheel and gearlever combo.

jas xjr

11,309 posts

238 months

Wednesday 8th July 2015
quotequote all
giblet said:
I guess it is bound to appreciate over time, pity I'm somewhat short of the asking price!

I really like the look of this one it seems to be a similar spec just missing the red stitching plus the steering wheel and gearlever combo.
Depends if you want an xjr100,that Irish one would be good for me if it was solid underneath and all the usual places. I would love one again,but I could not even pay 10% of those prices. What little I earn is being spent on the house.plus divorces ain't cheap smile I am on number two smile

Only had a quick look but I think all 100's had the brembo brakes as standard.the Irish one has the wheels.just going to look at it again.
I cannot tell,the discs do not look lost in the bigger wheel.if they are brenbos,they were worth £1000,a jaguar breaker told me ,and very much in demand.not sure they are a good idea,if I had them I would be braking later and harder smile


Edited by jas xjr on Wednesday 8th July 18:51

giblet

8,824 posts

176 months

Wednesday 8th July 2015
quotequote all
I'm only window shopping at the moment. Trouble is the car would be driven daily and as a result it is bound to pick up car park dings etc which would infuriate me. My current car needs a couple thousand thrown at it to get it just how I want it. It's quick but still doesn't feel as fast as my XJR did. There is something special about the XJR, that interior and the supercharged text on the rev counter.

jas xjr

11,309 posts

238 months

Wednesday 8th July 2015
quotequote all
giblet said:
I'm only window shopping at the moment. Trouble is the car would be driven daily and as a result it is bound to pick up car park dings etc which would infuriate me. My current car needs a couple thousand thrown at it to get it just how I want it. It's quick but still doesn't feel as fast as my XJR did. There is something special about the XJR, that interior and the supercharged text on the rev counter.
I will have an immaculate x308 again and I am sure you will if you want one.
Really not bothered what else is out there,it is just right for me.

V8Sully

37 posts

112 months

Sunday 12th July 2015
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This is my bargain basement 308. Still getting to know it but so far so good.

GreenArrow

Original Poster:

3,551 posts

116 months

Monday 13th July 2015
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giblet said:
I really want an X308 XJR again, my £1300 one cost way more than that in upkeep but it was a cracking car. Trouble is I want a later X308 in either black or blue with the R1 package, no leaper and cream leather interior or alternatively an XJR100. Both seem to pop up for sale quite rarely and prices aren't exactly cheap. There is an immaculate XJR100 that recently popped on the ph classifieds at a rather high price.

Rust is an issue as has already been mentioned on here. That and the fact that most of the cheap ones will need a good bit of preventative maintenance. Gearbox fluid, supercharger oil etc all adds up.

Edited by giblet on Wednesday 8th July 13:44
Where do you find an XJR for £1300? Cheapest I could find was around the £3k mark!

jas xjr

11,309 posts

238 months

Monday 13th July 2015
quotequote all
GreenArrow said:
Where do you find an XJR for £1300? Cheapest I could find was around the £3k mark!
They were going for silly low prices,even xjr100's were quite affordable.
Ropey ones with high mileage are fetching decent money,asking price anyway.
Clean ones with decent history are much more expensive this year.
I would say as an all round package they are a great proposition.not outstanding in any particular area but all the car I need.


giblet

8,824 posts

176 months

Monday 13th July 2015
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GreenArrow said:
Where do you find an XJR for £1300? Cheapest I could find was around the £3k mark!
Local trade auction. Was perusing the catalogue and spotted it and the reg. Knew I had to have it





Loved the looks, performance and comfort. Hated the leaper on the bonnet. It cost nearly three times the purchase price for repairs and preventative maintenance. Drove it to Spa and back for the F1 and it didn't skip a beat. Even sat at 140 plus leptons. Probably the best car I've owned, sadly had to sell it as I started a new job and my commute dropped to 3 miles each way.

Edited by giblet on Monday 13th July 21:27