Modern Jaguar build quality issues?

[RoverP6B]

Just seen this:

http://twitter.com/dontbuyajaguar

Really doesn't look good - and Jaguar doing nothing to resolve the issues.

[a8hex]

Having a 'bot' just keep posting ads into the stream doesn't help really.

[Jim the Sunderer]

He's just angry at the Parkinson's he's been diagnosed with.

[Daveyboyadams]

In my case with my F-Type... Had it since May and they 'Jaguar' have had it for 4 weeks resolving issues with the car when I picked it up and noticed all the problems with it. It now needs to go in with paint related issues and cosmetic issues with the boot lining and plastic trims and also the floor carpet and trim coming away. Bad experience so far just awaiting to hear from Jaguar and what they have to say about it.

[fatboy b]

I sold my Audi A5 because of its utter crap build quality. My XF is the opposite. All manufacturers make lemons. It happens.

[jamieduff1981]

I had a very pedantic little issue with my XFR-S. The dealer gave me a great courtesy car to hoon around in with absolutely no hassle whatsoever and the car has been flawless since.

I know P6B thinks Jaguar have gone down the pan since dropping the AJ16 engine and adopted the V8 based upon ramblings in the General Gassing section but the modern day build quality is superb in my first hand experience. I've had 4 modern post-straight 6 Jags and they've been well-built cars.

[wilwak]

I've a nice collection of Modern Jags and all have been fantastic. Nothing serious. Just the odd little niggle that was quickly resolved. S-Type, XJ, XF, XK and Ftype.

The only car that I did feel felt slightly lesser build quality was the ftype. Just personal feeling really.

Not tried the XE or very new XF so can't comment on them.

[anonymous-user]

jamieduff1981 said:

I had a very pedantic little issue with my XFR-S. The dealer gave me a great courtesy car to hoon around in with absolutely no hassle whatsoever and the car has been flawless since.

I know P6B thinks Jaguar have gone down the pan since dropping the AJ16 engine and adopted the V8 based upon ramblings in the General Gassing section but the modern day build quality is superb in my first hand experience. I've had 4 modern post-straight 6 Jags and they've been well-built cars.

I have to say that my personal experience mirrors P6Bs - the perceived quality was good on my S-Type but it really was a bag of st and working on it showed up how cheap and nasty the fixings and fixtures were for example. The X300 had the benefit of 10 years of product development as the XJ40 of course and was really a very simple car mechanically and electronically, even Jaguar couldn't really fk it up given the circumstances.

They redeemed themselves with the X308 though, CANBUS gave them plenty of opportunity for electrical buggyness, they made some real mistakes designing the V8 (nicasil, simplex timing chain, plastic cooling impellers and pensioners), and also got bitten by the fragility of the new generation of 5 speed ZF autobox compared to the ancient 4 speed design in the X300. Not the only manufacture affected by any of those of course, but looking at 2nd hand X308s even 7/8 years ago revealed a disproportionate number that had new engines and/or gearboxes at low mileages.

I sincerely hope that the current models aren't as slipshod and stty as my diesel S-Type, but things like that bdized 90 degree V6 with blanked off cylinders do not speak of a manufacturer striving for excellence.

[RoverP6B]

I actually quite like the modern Jags, I just don't think much of the engines. I'd still have a dark red X351 with the S/C V8 though.

The bodged V6 is a stopgap while they develop the new "Ingenium" straight six...

[a8hex]

RoverP6B said:

The bodged V6 is a stopgap while they develop the new "Ingenium" straight six...

I'd not heard they were planning a new straight 6, that's interesting. Jaguars should have cylinders organised in nice neat rows of 6, other arrangements are done purely because you can't afford to do it properly.
But I understood that packaging a straight six with modern safety rules was really problematic.

[RoverP6B]

A V6 isn't much of a compromise if you do it properly (see Ferrari/Fiat Dino/Lancia Stratos, see also Alfa Romeo Giuseppe Busso Arese V6), but the packaging advantages of the V6 are receding as the transverse-engined FWD platforms are mainly going all-four-cylinder, and there's also a demand to downsize from V8s and V12s, so Jaguar and Mercedes-Benz are returning to the inline six layout (which can also be adapted to/from a V12 as and when required).

http://wot.motortrend.com/1504_cats_out_of_the_bag...
http://www.roadandtrack.com/new-cars/videos/a8645/...

[anonymous-user]

RoverP6B said:

I actually quite like the modern Jags, I just don't think much of the engines. I'd still have a dark red X351 with the S/C V8 though.

The bodged V6 is a stopgap while they develop the new "Ingenium" straight six...

I was sad they never did more with the SI6 featured in the US market Freelander 2. It was the standard engine in a lot of Volvos in the US and about 7 people bought one here. In NASP and turbocharged form it's a very nice engine indeed.

[Hamish Finn]

dme123 said:

they made some real mistakes designing the V8 (nicasil, simplex timing chain, plastic cooling impellers and pensioners)

Fascinating. How do you know it was pensioners that designed the V8?

[jamieduff1981]

a8hex said:

RoverP6B said:

The bodged V6 is a stopgap while they develop the new "Ingenium" straight six...

I'd not heard they were planning a new straight 6, that's interesting. Jaguars should have cylinders organised in nice neat rows of 6, other arrangements are done purely because you can't afford to do it properly.
But I understood that packaging a straight six with modern safety rules was really problematic.

It is. Either the front cylinders and timing gear gets smashed in a light front ender, or the rear cylinders are under the dashboard so the owner gets a £2000 bill for a sparkplug change.

I trust all those calling the 3 litre supercharged 6 a bodge have actually driven it to be able to speak with authority on the determinable shortcomings of the engine. It's odd that those who drive it without first researching its origins from an armchair seem to love it.

The "new age" ZF 5 speed was designed before today's learner drivers were even conceived. The ZF 6 is practically indestructable and I've yet to hear of issues with the latest 8 and 9 speed boxes.

On the subject of the 1990s era S-Type, mine has been solid. Both perceived and mechanical quality exceed BMW and Audi observations. It's 10 years old this year.

[CambsBill]

wilwak said:

I've a nice collection of Modern Jags and all have been fantastic. Nothing serious. Just the odd little niggle that was quickly resolved. S-Type, XJ, XF, XK and Ftype.

The only car that I did feel felt slightly lesser build quality was the ftype. Just personal feeling really.

Not tried the XE or very new XF so can't comment on them.

Me too. On my third now with nothing more than the odd niggle. I have colleagues with German marques who are significantly more familiar with their dealer network.

[esso]

RoverP6B said:

I actually quite like the modern Jags, I just don't think much of the engines. I'd still have a dark red X351 with the S/C V8 though.

The bodged V6 is a stopgap while they develop the new "Ingenium" straight six...

I happened to have recently purchased a Jaguar with a `bodged V6`....I happen to be aware its the V8 with 2 cylinders blanked off but I can assure you that in supercharged form with 375BHP its more than adequate and that`s from someone who has driven a V8 TVR Cerbera for the last 10 years....so I wouldn`t be knocking it.

[RoverP6B]

A V8 in itself is a bit of a compromise, it's not an inherently balanced layout, the only way of making it at all balanced is to fit a massively counter-weighted 90-degree crank. A V6 can only be balanced, I understand, with a 120-degree bank angle - but if you've got room for that, you may as well go for a flat six. The solution, therefore, is to halve the bank angle to 60 degrees and either put up with the vibration or add balancer shafts to damp them out. A 90-degree V6 that is just a V8 block with the two rearmost cylinders blanked off is not in any way ideal. The only reason Jaguar went down that route is because the supply of Duratecs from Bridgend was ending and they needed something to fill the gap while they developed the Ingenium straight six.

Packaging a straight six need not be a problem. The advantages of the layout are such that it's worth making space for it.

[esso]

How does a 75 degree V8 with a flat-plane crank work?

[anonymous-user]

Hamish Finn said:

dme123 said:

they made some real mistakes designing the V8 (nicasil, simplex timing chain, plastic cooling impellers and pensioners)

Fascinating. How do you know it was pensioners that designed the V8?

Well back then it was mostly pensioners who bought them ;-)

For the pedantic among us that was clearly a typo for tensioners....

[a8hex]

dme123 said:

they made some real mistakes designing the V8 (nicasil, ...

Well it wasn't just Jaguar that fell foul of not testing nikasil engines with high sulphur fuel and lots of little start stop trips short trips. Quite a lot of manufactures also got their fingers burned on that one.