Discussion
Mastiff said:
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XK values holding well and going the right way - as an example I have just given a customer virtually all of his money back for an XK that he bought from us over a year ago. Agreed there are a number of variables, he hasn't done many miles, bought the car well in the first place, lovely spec etc, etc but the fact that we returned virtually the RETAIL price a year down the line still made the chap quite happy!
XKR-S is a tad different. Not too many people saw the extra £7K cost as worth the money in the first place and today, the values of these are a little below CAP. However, there are fewer of these around of course and I believe that they will catch up due to their rarity. Although this could take a while.
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Giving a customer his "money back" doesn't mean to say the car is not going to lie on the dealer forecourt for months. Like many are doing just now ?XK values holding well and going the right way - as an example I have just given a customer virtually all of his money back for an XK that he bought from us over a year ago. Agreed there are a number of variables, he hasn't done many miles, bought the car well in the first place, lovely spec etc, etc but the fact that we returned virtually the RETAIL price a year down the line still made the chap quite happy!
XKR-S is a tad different. Not too many people saw the extra £7K cost as worth the money in the first place and today, the values of these are a little below CAP. However, there are fewer of these around of course and I believe that they will catch up due to their rarity. Although this could take a while.
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I'm not trying to piss on your, or your franchise's bonfire (or even Jaguar's for that matter) but I just don't get it when the metal is taking so long to shift ?
Good luck but I'd like a better oversight on what these cars are being bought in for.....
It's a lot of cash for a dealer to have tied-up in one vehicle, for so long.
RingSpanner said:
Giving a customer his "money back" doesn't mean to say the car is not going to lie on the dealer forecourt for months. Like many are doing just now ?
I'm not trying to piss on your, or your franchise's bonfire (or even Jaguar's for that matter) but I just don't get it when the metal is taking so long to shift ?
Good luck but I'd like a better oversight on what these cars are being bought in for.....
It's a lot of cash for a dealer to have tied-up in one vehicle, for so long.
We gave the right money for the car the first time, then the right money for the car this time around too. We will "put butter in the fridge" on both occasions - thanks. It was simple anecdote to reflect that the value of that car had increased enough in the time the man owed it to get virtually all of his initial purchase price back (including of course the variables mentioned in the original post).I'm not trying to piss on your, or your franchise's bonfire (or even Jaguar's for that matter) but I just don't get it when the metal is taking so long to shift ?
Good luck but I'd like a better oversight on what these cars are being bought in for.....
It's a lot of cash for a dealer to have tied-up in one vehicle, for so long.
Things are taking a while to move right across the board. For cars like this they can often be seasonal and the weather hasn't been great. Land Rover are (comparatively) quiet as well but this is probably just an effect from the Brexit thing - we often go quiet when there are big political events in the offing.
As for having the funds tied up in the vehicle for that length of time, if I'm convinced that the car is going the right way in value - who cares when it sells?
I'm pretty sure that my used car budget can stand on for it for a while.....
RingSpanner said:
Good luck, Mastifff.
I take it the wink is code for you buying low and hoping to sell high.
Not at all - It'll get a profit certainly - that's what we are all here for in the end.I take it the wink is code for you buying low and hoping to sell high.
The wink was really aimed at, with a £1.4M used car budget to play with - one XKR can hang around for a little while!
Mastiff said:
Not at all - It'll get a profit certainly - that's what we are all here for in the end.
The wink was really aimed at, with a £1.4M used car budget to play with - one XKR can hang around for a little while!
If it was my money I was lending you for your business, I'd be expecting a better return on it than letting it lie around tied-up in metal that isn't moving. You really should be careful what you write on Internet forums!The wink was really aimed at, with a £1.4M used car budget to play with - one XKR can hang around for a little while!
Your earlier post mentioned a "RETAIL" price, yet I was hearing (and offered) a ten thousand pound "dealer support" subsidy on one of the last few XKRs to be registered. (I've also seen similar comments in other posts on here suggesting I wasn't alone...). So, by my reckoning, saying you bought your car back for the same money as you "sold it" is perhaps a little misleading?
I do like your optimism in talking-up the market, but it isn't a Ferrari LaFerrari or a Dino, and you can't be Tom Hartley ;-)
RingSpanner said:
PH XKR said:
Good god you are the Patrick Bateman of the jaguar sub forum
Not really. I just live in the real world where everything isn't covered in fairy dust, unlike some of the posters on here. Likewise my e39 M5 has done quite nicely. My z06 did fantastic (put 20,000 miles on in two years took it into a specialist dealer and guess what? I got virtually what I paid for it 2 years earlier, that fairy dust sure tastes sweet when I had virtually cost free fun and 20,000 miles of smiles).
If a trader is saying the values have strengthened enough for him to pay a customer what he sold the car for a year earlier and he is able to then sit on the stock then why do you find it hard to accept? You mention instant return on investment and if you were an investor you wouldn't want your cash sitting there, well this indicates you have no clue about stable finance and have zero insight into how the motortrade world works.
When I took on my XKR I planned it to fall in value at a far greater rate than the vette did, but truth is, if its slow or static then chching for me but then I bought quite possibly the best combination of features, colour and options.
PH XKR said:
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A load of rose-tinted b
ks ...
Re-read the posts, properly.A load of rose-tinted b
ks ...I can see you're really attached to your XKR - so much so, that your forum name is fabulously adapted to reflect your undying love of a "future classic". Get a life man, it's a lump of metal.
Do I take it that you also have another alter ego name reflecting your ''vette, or your M5 on the sub-forums ?
Mastiff is a dealer who is talking the market up. You're the sucker for taking his words of wisdom at face value.
There's always one.....
Onwards and upwards.
RingSpanner said:
Mastiff is a dealer who is talking the market up. You're the sucker for taking his words of wisdom at face value.
Yes but he makes no secret of it. He's just saying that he's happy to put his (or someone else's) money where his mouth is and that in his experience these cars sell if you're happy to wait a short while for the right customer to come along. Since money is really cheap at the moment, sitting on a £1M+ worth of stock isn't a problem to his business. Surely that's his and his companies business. It sounds like you are trying to talk the value down, maybe because you want an XKR but don't want to pay what Mastiff thinks he can sell them for. Well that's your call. Since his profile suggests that he's involved in the wider JLR business it's probably worth there overall business objectives to have a higher second hand value on their cars. People are less likely to want to buy new cars if they are going to lose too much on them if they decide to move them on later, so he might have other reasons to not just want to move cars of as fast as possible and not worry about the margin.RingSpanner said:
.....
Onwards and upwards.
Your posts read more like "Onwards and downwards", well if there is less downwards, it might be better for his business. I don't know for sure, I'm just guessing.Onwards and upwards.
he is almost certainly not attempting a Hexagon or a RSDirect market capture. You sound like the petulant child but instead of being happy for more, is unhapp some other idiot out there is perhaps willing to pay more for his cash.
No alter-ego just yes proud to have a stunning car AND happier if the market appears to be a bit more buoyant than I anticipated when purchasing HSM Titanicresale.
No alter-ego just yes proud to have a stunning car AND happier if the market appears to be a bit more buoyant than I anticipated when purchasing HSM Titanicresale.
RingSpanner said:
in another thread
They're a beautiful car, in an extraordinarily tight niche sector of the market, which I'm not sure Jaguar fully understands. Or, maybe they don't understand their customers ?
What a fantastic statement, thus ends any credibility you have to comment further.They're a beautiful car, in an extraordinarily tight niche sector of the market, which I'm not sure Jaguar fully understands. Or, maybe they don't understand their customers ?
Are you trying to rubbish a market in a bid to pick up a car? A car will sell at what someone is willing to pay for it, simple. If mastiff doesn't understand this then he is in the wrong game, I am guessing as he is a principle sales manager for JLR he must have a scoobyeffingdoo what he is up to.
Mastiff, drop us a line as I might be looking at an F type next year to replace my worthless car.
RingSpanner said:
Re-read the posts, properly.
I can see you're really attached to your XKR - so much so, that your forum name is fabulously adapted to reflect your undying love of a "future classic". Get a life man, it's a lump of metal.
Do I take it that you also have another alter ego name reflecting your ''vette, or your M5 on the sub-forums ?
Mastiff is a dealer who is talking the market up. You're the sucker for taking his words of wisdom at face value.
There's always one.....
Onwards and upwards.
I can see you're really attached to your XKR - so much so, that your forum name is fabulously adapted to reflect your undying love of a "future classic". Get a life man, it's a lump of metal.
Do I take it that you also have another alter ego name reflecting your ''vette, or your M5 on the sub-forums ?
Mastiff is a dealer who is talking the market up. You're the sucker for taking his words of wisdom at face value.
There's always one.....
Onwards and upwards.
You'll find the market doesn't really need talking up, for a car thats ltd edition, it'll ultimately end up being a supply and demand situation. This very same thing happened with BMW CSL's, and the newer BMW 1M coupe's.
In general terms if a car is ltd edition, and there is a short supply, it will no doubt end up a future classic, and will hold its value vs a non ltd edition of the same car, if we dont like that, and wont pay the asking prices then i'm sure the dealers and owners wont worry very much, there will always be a buyer in the end.
I cant see why this would be a bad thing (unless your trying to buy cheap) but as an owner or dealer it keeps the market strong for certain cars. If you bought now paid £50K and in 2 years it was still worth £50k thats good? i'm sure It'll be a long time before the cars recoup the new values as they were £100K and they might never. But for depreciation it'll level out and the price will be the price in the end decided by supply and demand. Most cars are mid £50k for RS's and even the cheapest cars are £47K but surely this still represents a good buy when they were £100K new?
As for 'just lumps of metal' yes they are, and a house is 'just' a pile of bricks, but as owners we are always attached to whatever we own, and this is what creates a forum like this, and car clubs, and the main reason why Jaguar and other car makers still build these sorts of cars as there are still people interested which creates demand.
Andy
Edited by andyman_2006 on Thursday 16th June 10:58
I find funny the people on here who comes to try to influence markets trends for personal interest (buying or selling)
In another thread there was a guy defining even which wheels or other things would make an F-Type worth to be bought or not just to learn that he had one to sell obviously with the characteristics he was suggesting as the right one
In another thread there was a guy defining even which wheels or other things would make an F-Type worth to be bought or not just to learn that he had one to sell obviously with the characteristics he was suggesting as the right one
I find it odd, and a peculiarity of this site, where people with a vested interest in values increasing seem to berate and attempt to talk down such behaviour!
As to what spec to put on a car to consider resale, I often find that amusing as most will be on PCP or some such rental agreement anyway, just buy the car to the spec YOU like and drive the effing thing. So many Porsche GT4s (boring car in my book) were spec'd to speculate so all you see are the blue and occasionally silver ones... You can have any colour as long as it is black....
As to what spec to put on a car to consider resale, I often find that amusing as most will be on PCP or some such rental agreement anyway, just buy the car to the spec YOU like and drive the effing thing. So many Porsche GT4s (boring car in my book) were spec'd to speculate so all you see are the blue and occasionally silver ones... You can have any colour as long as it is black....
PH XKR said:
What a fantastic statement, thus ends any credibility you have to comment further.
Are you trying to rubbish a market in a bid to pick up a car? A car will sell at what someone is willing to pay for it, simple. If mastiff doesn't understand this then he is in the wrong game, I am guessing as he is a principle sales manager for JLR he must have a scoobyeffingdoo what he is up to.
Mastiff, drop us a line as I might be looking at an F type next year to replace my worthless car.
Oh, I don't think so.Are you trying to rubbish a market in a bid to pick up a car? A car will sell at what someone is willing to pay for it, simple. If mastiff doesn't understand this then he is in the wrong game, I am guessing as he is a principle sales manager for JLR he must have a scoobyeffingdoo what he is up to.
Mastiff, drop us a line as I might be looking at an F type next year to replace my worthless car.
I am truly sorry I pished on your ownership experience, I really am. This wasn't the intention of my posting. I can see you are emotionally-attached to your pride and joy, in a way I never have been to any car I've owned.
The OP asked about the relative merits of XKR-S ownership, compared to other high-end exotica. Fair enough question?
The Jaguar is a beautiful car, with near near-perfect styling; to my eyes it is one of the more elegant styling designs on the market, even though it has been discontinued. It is not without drawbacks, though.
It's ownership doesn't come cheap; precluding towering depreciation - it is expensive to run, fuel, tax, and service, and insurance depends on personal circumstances. Tyres aren't ten-a-penny, either, if you have fun with the power. Once out of warranty, repairs can be eye-wateringly expensive. It has an archaic driver infotainment system, which is about as chronically slow as a five-year old reciting the multiplication tables; it does the job, though, even if it doesn't cut the mustard with the competition. It is an enthusiasts' car but can't defy the laws of the market place.
The thread had some dealer give us his views. They were oriented to suit HIS position, not yours, and not mine. In short, he was talking the market up, quite possibly as he has at least one sitting on his forecourt chasing a buyer. Well-worn phrases like "putting butter in the fridge" is a euphemism to cover slow sales, nothing more and nothing less.
The plain fact is these cars are not selling fast.
Perhaps a VERY low mileage, one-owner, right colour combo vehicle may find a ready buyer with a quick sale - but, the vast majority of these cars are sitting around. Pure and simples. Vehicles with multiple owners, higher than "weekend mileage", stuff with bodywork repairs, etc., etc., aren't shifting, at all. That's not putting butter in the fridge; that's trying to maintain residuals for the PCP buyers.
When the model was discontinued, some dealers were offering "loyal" (if there's such a paradox) customers XKRs at large discounts (see my previous post) to move old stock. The dealer who gave you "his views" - and which you appear to cling, gospel-like, onto - was trying to allude IMHO that his car had made list price, and he'd bought it back in - at list price.
I am sorry if you misunderstood that I was pointing-out the difference between list price, and retail price - they aren't the same in the car trade.
I hope you enjoy your ownership experience but suggesting an XKR-S will be the next E-type is stretching the imagination, if you ask me. When I come to sell my XKR-S, I hope I can find an enthusiast as committed as you for a quick sale.
Regards and drive safe.
as an owner with a potential future sale/park-ex his views are clearly in my interest if he is saying "chaps, we flogged some old dear a banger for 44k last year, he's driven 5,000 in it and I just had to pay him 42k to take it back". That is very much in my and every other owners interest as it means for once a Jag that may not plummet like my jaw line when I find a copy of the 1988 KP nuts catalogue in the MOT station.
Emotionally attached? Not at all, I'm about the antithesis of attached to cars as during my ownership I don't even blink an eye if I put 20k on the clock of a car that others drive only when its dry, if the wind blows in the right direction and the Queen is in. To me cars are for driving not for garaging, the only time I get a bit riled is when people look at a car that's 4 years old and go "OMG you have 32,000 miles on the clock".
Emotionally attached? Not at all, I'm about the antithesis of attached to cars as during my ownership I don't even blink an eye if I put 20k on the clock of a car that others drive only when its dry, if the wind blows in the right direction and the Queen is in. To me cars are for driving not for garaging, the only time I get a bit riled is when people look at a car that's 4 years old and go "OMG you have 32,000 miles on the clock".
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