S-Type evolving to XF
Discussion
Found this and thought it was quite interesting: http://www.aronline.co.uk/blogs/concepts/concepts-...
The car was still rushed to market 12 months before it was really ready. It had to be to make the company attractive to TATA. The S-type platform restricted the design heavily and the timeline to get the product to market in time for Jaguars sale meant that it was launched with the 2.7 diesel engine which lasted less than 9 months before being replaced with the 3.0 version. The original 12 months of XF production burnt a lot of early adopters who bought into the "new" face of Jaguar.
craigjm said:
meant that it was launched with the 2.7 diesel engine which lasted less than 9 months before being replaced with the 3.0 version.
Mind you having just moved from 2.7D S-Type to 3.0D XF, the XF seems less keen to get a shift on and uses more fuel. Inside, the S-Type was as quiet as a petrol car whilst the XF sounds like a diesel. As far as driving goes, IMHO, the XF isn't as refined. Mind you 19" alloys cf 17" don't help on the average British roads.Simpo Two said:
Mind you 19" alloys cf 17" don't help on the average British roads.
Exactly this. Try a base XF with 17s and you won't see much difference to an S-typeUnfortunately, because it was rushed out the early ones were plagued with issues. Mine spent so much time in the garage for issues with various bits it was unbelievable.
craigjm said:
Unfortunately, because it was rushed out the early ones were plagued with issues. Mine spent so much time in the garage for issues with various bits it was unbelievable.
Luckily mine's 2011. I'd hoped to find a facelift model but the only ones in my budget were 2.2. God they must be slow. And many new XFs are only 2.0 4-pot! What the heck is happening to Jaguar, six cylinders in a line and magic carpet ride? All sacrificed for the 20-somethings and blue neons, bah.Simpo Two said:
Luckily mine's 2011. I'd hoped to find a facelift model but the only ones in my budget were 2.2. God they must be slow. And many new XFs are only 2.0 4-pot! What the heck is happening to Jaguar, six cylinders in a line and magic carpet ride? All sacrificed for the 20-somethings and blue neons, bah.
Four pots are for the company car tax payers. Straight sixes back next year For all that, what they've managed to do with the S-Type's platform in XFR-S guise is frankly stunning. If they'd put that geometry, those dampers, stiffer front uprights, better steering rack and a limited slip diff on the S-Type R along with some gear control it would have blown the world away at the time.
Simpo Two said:
Mind you having just moved from 2.7D S-Type to 3.0D XF, the XF seems less keen to get a shift on and uses more fuel. Inside, the S-Type was as quiet as a petrol car whilst the XF sounds like a diesel. As far as driving goes, IMHO, the XF isn't as refined. Mind you 19" alloys cf 17" don't help on the average British roads.
The engine management does intervene a little when pulling away in 1st. Try using sport or dynamic.Regards the noise, my 8sp S is as quiet as they come. The V6 diesel in the Jags is still one of the most refined out there.
fatboy b said:
The engine management does intervene a little when pulling away in 1st. Try using sport or dynamic
Would that create a sound a bit like pinking? If I put my foot down (in D) there's a second or two of this pinking noise and then eventually a roar as the thing wakes up. I'm a little concerned never heard my my S-Type make a pinking noise. The XF is only on 33K miles.Simpo Two said:
fatboy b said:
The engine management does intervene a little when pulling away in 1st. Try using sport or dynamic
Would that create a sound a bit like pinking? If I put my foot down (in D) there's a second or two of this pinking noise and then eventually a roar as the thing wakes up. I'm a little concerned never heard my my S-Type make a pinking noise. The XF is only on 33K miles.Simpo Two said:
fatboy b said:
The engine management does intervene a little when pulling away in 1st. Try using sport or dynamic
Would that create a sound a bit like pinking? If I put my foot down (in D) there's a second or two of this pinking noise and then eventually a roar as the thing wakes up. I'm a little concerned never heard my my S-Type make a pinking noise. The XF is only on 33K miles.fatboy b said:
You might get a more detailed response over on www.jaginfo.org Plenty of expertise around, and a good laugh too.
I took the car to Marshalls in Ipswich today who very kindly let a technician out to test drive it, and he said it all seemed normal to him. It seems the XF is just not as refined as the S-Type was. It was interesting to swap notes; he agreed that Jaguars aren't as comfortable as they used to be, even the XJ. Such a shame that people only want massive alloys and 'sports', so I guess if you want a magic carpet ride you need a Bentley now.But I can have more confidence in the car now, and hopefully next week the a/c will be fixed under warranty because it's a mobile oven at present
NB Something I learned from him is that the S-Type turbos operate together throughout the rev range whilst the XF has them sequential, or two-stage as he called it. So that's why it needs more club to get it going...!
Edited by Simpo Two on Thursday 25th August 13:27
Simpo Two said:
It seems the XF is just not as refined as the S-Type was.
It was never intended to be. The view within Coventry at the time was to kick start a move away from refinement and comfort being the main driver because they needed to compete with BMW and Audi etc to survive. Sales figures and focus groups of customers were showing quite clearly that's what customers new to the brand wanted. With the average age of the new Jaguar buyer sitting in the high 50s in the mid 00s something had to change and that was it. I wouldn't say modern Bentley is as defined as you might expect these days. That game is now squarely with Rolls
Agreed, you can't survive just making luxury barges. That's what made sense about the X and S Type. X for the company car driver who wanted the badge for a mere £20K, XJ magic carpet at the top for the chairmen/rich people, and S in the middle. Perhaps the difference now is that the 20-30s have much more money than before, so can call the shots, and chairmen are 40 not 60. It does mean though that anyone over 40 has nothing to aspire to because they've had it all, and anyone who wants to drive for four hours and get out feeling as fresh as when they started has to buy a Rolls...
On a practical note, will my boneshakingly fashionable XF be greatly improved if I fit 17" alloys, and if so would anyone be interested in a p/ex for some very good 19" Caravelas...?
On a practical note, will my boneshakingly fashionable XF be greatly improved if I fit 17" alloys, and if so would anyone be interested in a p/ex for some very good 19" Caravelas...?
There will be quite a change in comfort and handling going from 19 to 17. Always a good market for used alloys in good condition but I would be surprised if you could find a set of 17s without buying new as few XFs were ever specced with them. Mind you it's the same fitting as other Jags so you don't have to stick to XF wheels.
If you want the best ride and are willing to spend a bit then get down to 17 inch wheels and buy the comfort suspension kit from Spires which was about £1500 fitted when first launched and will get you much closer to what you want.
If you want the best ride and are willing to spend a bit then get down to 17 inch wheels and buy the comfort suspension kit from Spires which was about £1500 fitted when first launched and will get you much closer to what you want.
Interesting, thanks: http://www.spires-st.com/product/xf-all-passive-co...
It's a lot more than I had in mind though... hmm... must be another way out...
It's a lot more than I had in mind though... hmm... must be another way out...
In succession I had an S-Type 4.0 V8 for 3 1/2 years, an S-Type 4.2 V8 for 10 1/2 years, and I now have an XF 5.0 V8 n/a for just over 2 years. I completely agree with the discussion about suspension and quality of ride. The XF is not as good compared to the two S Types.
My XF has 19 inch Carelia wheels,(rather than 20 inch Sentas that were OE), that were specified by the original owner (a Jaguar executive apparently, so maybe he knew something!). It is a better ride than I've experienced with the 20 inch wheels on various XF loan cars I've had over the past two years or so. I assume 17s may be the best for comfort but I suspect handling could be compromised.
R.
My XF has 19 inch Carelia wheels,(rather than 20 inch Sentas that were OE), that were specified by the original owner (a Jaguar executive apparently, so maybe he knew something!). It is a better ride than I've experienced with the 20 inch wheels on various XF loan cars I've had over the past two years or so. I assume 17s may be the best for comfort but I suspect handling could be compromised.
R.
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