2011 XFR - suspected dead engine
Discussion
On my way from Leeds to Preston last week I decided to take the scenic route- the first quarter of the journey was entirely uneventful, but as I finished overtaking a dawdling car on a stretch of dual carriageway just outside Ilkley, I got a "restricted performance warning" accompanied by plumes of smoke. Had to limp about a mile to a safe place to park, and as I pulled up the engine died. Arranged recovery to the nearest dealer as it is under an approved used Jag warranty. The recovery bloke suspected a fueling issue as there was a very strong smell of fuel under the bonnet but couldn't see any leaks. Car hadn't lost any other fluids.
Fast forward a few days and the dealership looking at it have told me it needs a new engine but wont give me any details beyond that. Warranty co have requested they strip it down to examine the cause of the dead engine and wont sign off on a new engine until this has been done, something the dealership cant do for a few days due to having other cars booked in etc.
Prior to the issue car had been running absolutely fine - no warning lights, no poor performance, fuel economy was down a tad but I put that down to a change in job meaning a shorter commute.
Anyone else had any problems with the 5.0 V8 engine? I have never heard of them spontaneously letting go like this. It was on 45000 miles, last serviced about 10 months ago.
Fast forward a few days and the dealership looking at it have told me it needs a new engine but wont give me any details beyond that. Warranty co have requested they strip it down to examine the cause of the dead engine and wont sign off on a new engine until this has been done, something the dealership cant do for a few days due to having other cars booked in etc.
Prior to the issue car had been running absolutely fine - no warning lights, no poor performance, fuel economy was down a tad but I put that down to a change in job meaning a shorter commute.
Anyone else had any problems with the 5.0 V8 engine? I have never heard of them spontaneously letting go like this. It was on 45000 miles, last serviced about 10 months ago.
a8hex said:
"Dead Engine" seems a complete non-diagnosis of a problem. What on the engine is dead? Not surprised the warrantee company won't play ball, I'm just surprised they didn't go ape at the dealer.
Was it making any noises while in limp home mode?
I asked that question to be told "I dunno mate, and no one in the servicing team is available to speak to you"Was it making any noises while in limp home mode?
It ran really rough when it went into limp home mode, like it was missing a couple of cylinders. There was a considerable amount of smoke coming out of the back as well.
ali_XFR said:
a8hex said:
"Dead Engine" seems a complete non-diagnosis of a problem. What on the engine is dead? Not surprised the warrantee company won't play ball, I'm just surprised they didn't go ape at the dealer.
Was it making any noises while in limp home mode?
I asked that question to be told "I dunno mate, and no one in the servicing team is available to speak to you"Was it making any noises while in limp home mode?
It ran really rough when it went into limp home mode, like it was missing a couple of cylinders. There was a considerable amount of smoke coming out of the back as well.
When I last took my XKR in for a service I was emailed a link to video of the service technician (
) talking through the things on the car. SWMBO's Merc got the same thing. Doesn't seem on that they're not giving you some better information.Full of fluids = still had oil?
If I recall - there have been reports (mostly in the US I think) of XKR's lunching their engines. Usually due to lack of oil.
If I'm not mistaken (probably am, usually am) there is no low oil warning for the dash. And the electronic sensor, on my own XFR example, was utterly useless.
Sold mine recently - and that was a big worry for me as I could never get a sensible idea of how much oil I had in it. The times I did top it up - well an awful lot went in. At one point I was running 1.5-2 litres light. No idea if that's enough to cause a problem - but it's certainly not ideal. Terrible design.
We have a diesel XF that uses the same electronic dipstick system. It seems much more reliable. Not sure if my XFR just had a ropey sensor or if it's something in the design of the 5.0 that makes it ropey (sump shape?)
I think the water pumps are also known weak points. Like to leak. Whether they ever actually then fully let go and / or if the results of a water pump letting go would match your symptoms I don't know. I wonder if the car would warn of an overheat...smoke = coolant burning off and engine dying = overheating?
I'd personally read into Jag being cagey about it that it's the result of a known design fault so hopefully it will get sorted.
If I recall - there have been reports (mostly in the US I think) of XKR's lunching their engines. Usually due to lack of oil.
If I'm not mistaken (probably am, usually am) there is no low oil warning for the dash. And the electronic sensor, on my own XFR example, was utterly useless.
Sold mine recently - and that was a big worry for me as I could never get a sensible idea of how much oil I had in it. The times I did top it up - well an awful lot went in. At one point I was running 1.5-2 litres light. No idea if that's enough to cause a problem - but it's certainly not ideal. Terrible design.
We have a diesel XF that uses the same electronic dipstick system. It seems much more reliable. Not sure if my XFR just had a ropey sensor or if it's something in the design of the 5.0 that makes it ropey (sump shape?)
I think the water pumps are also known weak points. Like to leak. Whether they ever actually then fully let go and / or if the results of a water pump letting go would match your symptoms I don't know. I wonder if the car would warn of an overheat...smoke = coolant burning off and engine dying = overheating?
I'd personally read into Jag being cagey about it that it's the result of a known design fault so hopefully it will get sorted.
kamilb1998 said:
I worked within a dealership for a year and the only two real failures I saw in that time was a stuck open injector and one with a timing chain that had jumped for one reason or another.
Visiting RGCs once they showed me a 4.0 V8 with a very large hole in the side of the block where a rod had gone trhough, that's a dead engine.To answer some of the questions- I pretty much coasted down hill for a mile to find a safe place to stop- I was on a narrow country road at that point and didn't want to ditch it into a hedge. Did not rev the engine at all.
No oil leak prior to journey, coolant was checked about a week ago and was fine, hadn't been misfueled. No other warnings other than restricted performance. Must admit I don't check oil level very regularly (perhaps last checked a month ago) but it was absolutely fine last time I did check. No fluid leaks under the car where I parked up, nothing showing on the road, nothing on the recovery truck.
Can't seem to get anywhere with the dealers- rang the warranty co on Tuesday to be told the dealer hadn't instigated a claim at that point. Prior to this the dealer had rang last Thursday to ask if I was happy to pay 8 hours labour @ £120 an hour to get the fault diagnosed. I kicked off at that point. They rang back within the hour to say they wouldn't be charging me as they had consulted with the warranty co. To say I'm not a happy bunny is an understatement (!)
No oil leak prior to journey, coolant was checked about a week ago and was fine, hadn't been misfueled. No other warnings other than restricted performance. Must admit I don't check oil level very regularly (perhaps last checked a month ago) but it was absolutely fine last time I did check. No fluid leaks under the car where I parked up, nothing showing on the road, nothing on the recovery truck.
Can't seem to get anywhere with the dealers- rang the warranty co on Tuesday to be told the dealer hadn't instigated a claim at that point. Prior to this the dealer had rang last Thursday to ask if I was happy to pay 8 hours labour @ £120 an hour to get the fault diagnosed. I kicked off at that point. They rang back within the hour to say they wouldn't be charging me as they had consulted with the warranty co. To say I'm not a happy bunny is an understatement (!)
lexusboy said:
Injector stuck open probably.
Hopefully this. The fact it reeked of fuel after it was shut down would edge me towards a fueling problem.Fingers crossed for you
Only problem we've had in 3.5 years with ours was a water pump on its way out. Replaced with the newer version under warranty. 2011 5.0 n/a
Had a very similar problem with my C63 AMG. Sudden Rough running whereas previously perfect, engine light on, plumes of smoke, unburnt fuel smell and wouldn't idle or rev smoothly. Dealers couldn't identify the fault codes but after a call to AMG it eventually turned out to be a cam position sensor. It effectively shut down the firing on left hand bank of cylinders meaning tons of smoke from the unburnt fuel. Really rough running on just 4 cylinders too.
If the engine was fine one minute and running badly the next then, apart from the internals breaking and making a shed load of accompanying noise, it's very unlikely you need a new engine. I wouldn't let them pull the engine apart until they've exhausted all other possibilities. They may well just be making work to extract a large(r) sum from the warranty company. It's undoubtedly some form of misfuelling caused either by a stuck injector, a bad sensor somewhere or a lack of a spark on one or more cylinders (most likely).
If the engine was fine one minute and running badly the next then, apart from the internals breaking and making a shed load of accompanying noise, it's very unlikely you need a new engine. I wouldn't let them pull the engine apart until they've exhausted all other possibilities. They may well just be making work to extract a large(r) sum from the warranty company. It's undoubtedly some form of misfuelling caused either by a stuck injector, a bad sensor somewhere or a lack of a spark on one or more cylinders (most likely).
Dealership finally completed their diagnostic and have rung me to say the engine has valve damage. He couldn't elaborate on that, and when I question if that meant I definitely needed a new engine I was told the warranty co assessor will be inspecting the car on Monday and a decision will be taken in conjunction with him. Tune in next week for the next development...
Engine out of the car and they've found the timing chain has stretched. Valve damage is worst on cylinder 2 but the warranty co are talking to Jag to determine best course of action. Finally got a courtesy car after moaning to Jaguar on twitter about the atrocious lack of service and general can't be arsed attitude from the dealership. They've assigned someone on their end to coordinate between them, the warranty folk and the dealers.
ali_XFR said:
Engine out of the car and they've found the timing chain has stretched. Valve damage is worst on cylinder 2 but the warranty co are talking to Jag to determine best course of action. Finally got a courtesy car after moaning to Jaguar on twitter about the atrocious lack of service and general can't be arsed attitude from the dealership. They've assigned someone on their end to coordinate between them, the warranty folk and the dealers.
Sounds like someone is finally looking after you, not good that it's taken 2 weeks. Funny how dealers suddenly start talking to customers properly once the manufacture gets involved. Luckily I've not had that issue with Jaguar but have had the problem with others in the past.Worrying that they've had problems with the timing chain stretching. I wonder if they'll find out why and whether they'll tell you.
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